Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

Greetings Phoneman

I surely believe the mocking and slanderous posts are less than helpful and go a long way in frustrating the purpose of God in this thread. Sadly, it is true that popular theology has almost obscured the principle of obedience as the basis of acceptance with God in Christ Jesus our Lord by its doctrine of "justification by faith" alone. However, a danger exists in going too far the other way. Can you speak to this danger?

The Son of Thunder knew a believer begins with keeping His commands to eventually keeping His Word (v5) - it's a process of the command working it's way from head to heart. The instruction here is speaking of the precepts found in the Lord Jesus Christ and nowhere else can they be found in their living form, perfectly.

Do you agree the Lord Jesus Christ is not a denomination? And no denomination is a wholesaler of absolute truth. None of us think as we ought and certainly don't obey as we ought though we use our hearts daily to find His ways.

You see a beauty in the Law and Commands of God, which all had their fulfillment in Jesus (well done). I also love the Law and the Prophets which subject matter has filled me with awe and wonder these past 20 years.

I could debate the Sabbath/ Law with you and maybe show you a thing or two, but I fear the contention in this thread is rather toxic and not a place of learning.

I will continue to read with interest.

In the Lords love
F2F

Hi F2F, Paul said that salvation by works causes the offense of the Cross to cease. In that statement, we see the crux of the entire issue.

Why would one find the Cross offensive? Certainly not because of the idea that by it He paid our sin debt, for which one among us that recognizes our need for forgiveness would find that offensive? No, the offensiveness of the Cross is that it destroys the lie held as truth since time immemorial that we may continue to indulge the sins we love while atoning for them through whatever ritualistic means we concoct, all to the exclusion of character transformation. It is character transformation from that which has been marred by sin into that of the spotless Son of God which the world has always found so offensive because it is too demanding and too extreme - it's "going to far". Today, the church has joined in the fray with the tirelessly repeated excuses as to why Christians cannot be transformed by the renewing of their minds and made fit for the reasonable service of obedience to His commandments that God desires of us.

Today, the ritual of self atonement has taken on the form of illegitimately claiming the promise of salvation in Christ our Saviour while simultaneously rejecting His authority in our lives as Christ our Lord. Contrary to popular belief, God's mercy towards the sins we love is "long-suffering", not "eternal suffering" , which is the desire of those who want God's mercy to cripple His justice. The mercy held out to us as we struggle to overcome our character defects is expanded to cover those who stubbornly refuse to turn from sin and surrender to Him. They stand with shoulders square and jaw set and fists clenched ready to debate with the God they claim to love about the terms of what salvation should be, not realizing that the only thing they can possibly bring to the bargaining table is a lost soul. To me, friend, that's going to far.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman,

to finish this answer us all one question,

Show us one, yes just one person who walked this earth other than Christ who has managed to keep the law to the letter.

Just one.

You see than this whole Text,

Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Would become a lie.

In all His Love

You are welcome to carry the burden but not to lay it as a yoke of bondage on others.

Show me where God has said that it is not keeping His commandments which demonstrates our love for Jesus (John 14:15 KJV), but a daily spewing of the spit of presumption in His face and the driving of the rusty nails of our sin into His hands and feet which demonstrates that "love" (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV).

Obedience is only burdensome to those who do not love God (1 John 5:2-3 KJV)

What you don't realize is that it is they who stubbornly refuse to unburden themselves of their sinful lusts, through the ministry of our Sin-bearer, are they which are burdened with a burden that will crush the life out of them in the Day of Judgment.

 

[zeke25]

Greetings Phoneman

I surely believe the mocking and slanderous posts are less than helpful and go a long way in frustrating the purpose of God in this thread. Sadly, it is true that popular theology has almost obscured the principle of obedience as the basis of acceptance with God in Christ Jesus our Lord by its doctrine of "justification by faith" alone. However, a danger exists in going too far the other way. Can you speak to this danger?

The Son of Thunder knew a believer begins with keeping His commands to eventually keeping His Word (v5) - it's a process of the command working it's way from head to heart. The instruction here is speaking of the precepts found in the Lord Jesus Christ and nowhere else can they be found in their living form, perfectly.

Do you agree the Lord Jesus Christ is not a denomination? And no denomination is a wholesaler of absolute truth. None of us think as we ought and certainly don't obey as we ought though we use our hearts daily to find His ways.

You see a beauty in the Law and Commands of God, which all had their fulfillment in Jesus (well done). I also love the Law and the Prophets which subject matter has filled me with awe and wonder these past 20 years.

I could debate the Sabbath/ Law with you and maybe show you a thing or two, but I fear the contention in this thread is rather toxic and not a place of learning.

I will continue to read with interest.

In the Lords love
F2F

F2F,

So, you're going to dodge the question? Are you SDA or former SDA? You give the impression of one who is a deceiver. Since you've chosen to jump in, then show yourself for who and what you are. But to tuck your tail between your legs and run doesn't sound like one who is committed to the Word of God.

zeke25

 

[mjrhealth]

Show me where God has said that it is not keeping His commandments which demonstrates our love for Jesus (John 14:15 KJV), but a daily spewing of the spit of presumption in His face and the driving of the rusty nails of our sin into His hands and feet which demonstrates that "love" (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV).

Obedience is only burdensome to those who do not love God (1 John 5:2-3 KJV)

What you don't realize is that it is they who stubbornly refuse to unburden themselves of their sinful lusts, through the ministry of our Sin-bearer, are they which are burdened with a burden that will crush the life out of them in the Day of Judgment.

But you a sinner liek teh rest of us who daily breaks teh commandments just like the rest of us but whom twists the words of te hbible to suit your own flesh. Again if you want to be in bondage to teh law do so, but do not lay such great a burden on others.


1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

But for those who do not know love, the LAW will always be their burden.

If you knew Him than this thrread would not have made it past page 1.

 

[mjrhealth]

1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In as such Love fullfills teh law, the law is no longer a burden nor their judge for those who walk is in Love. But again for those without love the Law is their burden and their judge because they are sinners. For those who walk in Love have Christ and sin is no longer their burden for Chirst has forgiven those once and for all and their righteousness is in Him.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. which you so deperately hold on to.

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

But you a sinner liek teh rest of us who daily breaks teh commandments just like the rest of us but whom twists the words of te hbible to suit your own flesh. Again if you want to be in bondage to teh law do so, but do not lay such great a burden on others.


1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

But for those who do not know love, the LAW will always be their burden.

If you knew Him than this thrread would not have made it past page 1.

Sin everyday like you? Have you been a slave to sin for so long that you don't realize that there's power to overcome? Do you even pray in the morning that God will keep you from committing sin? Do you not know that Jesus is "able to keep you from falling?" Man, what corrupted version of Christianity do you subscribe to? Do you not heed the call of the Master Jesus when He says, "GO AND SIN NO MORE?"

Tell me, did you worship other gods today? Did you engage in idolatry, or blaspheme His name? Did you dishonor your father or mother, or kill anyone (including unrighteous anger) or commit adultery (including lusting after another woman), or steal, or lie, or covet anyone's stuff?

Brother, if you answer is "no" then praise God, neither did I today. If your answer is "yes", then stop being a pathetic cowardly slave to sin and go to Jesus for POWER TO OVERCOME. When you say you sin everyday, are you bragging or complaining?

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes I do sin everyday, because I am imperfect liek all men. I do not boast of my righteounes nor my works as they are all as fithy rags, but I boast of the grace and mercy and rightousness of Christ as my rightousness is in Christ. My sins are forgiven me forever, its a done deal. Does it give me the right to sin NO, but it makes me Human. Are you not human, are you perfect? Im not I know of none other than Chirst that is.

Again His grace is sufficient for me is it not for you.

My Chrisianity is based on Christ who gave His life for me a sinner, who forgave my sins once and for all, never again will He put Himself on that Cross, not for you or me or anyone else. Who has covered me with His blood, who becuase of His works I can stand before God as a righteous man, never to boast of my own works of which I have none. And before Him I will stand naked, nothing Hidden from Him for He can see all. But what He will see is teh righteousness of Christ because in Him I will rest.

Have I murderd any one. No becuase love doesnt do that -I need no law to tell me that.
Have I stolen - No- teh girl in Macccas today gave me to much change which I returned - not becuase of the law because of love.
Have I not lusted of any women - (not yet but I have my thorn no gaurantees here)
Oh and Sabbath - today I give to Him as I do everyday in that He may be glorified and I will rest in Him Daily - not because of any Law but because He loved me first and I love Him.

You can boast of your perfection Ill boast of Christ my Lord

1Jn_1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

In Al His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes I do sin everyday, because I am imperfect liek all men.

There was a man caught in a severe ice storm who was trying to get home. As he trudged through the snow, he finally came to the lake, over which was his house. The thought of hiking around the lake to get home was unbearable and he thought he might freeze to death before he got there. He wasn't sure if the lake had frozen over completely, so he laid down and stretched himself across the ice and slowly began to crawl across. After crawling for a while, he heard a huge rumbling from behind and a fierce terror gripped him. "Oh no!!, he shouted. "The ice was too thin!! It's breaking up!! I'm going to be lost!! As the rumbling fast approached from behind he lowered his head and waited for death, only to realize that it wasn't the ice breaking up, but a group of men on horseback galloping from behind and passing him on either side.

Some people are galloping on to victory over sin while others are just crawwwwwwwwwwling along, perhaps hoping to get caught up in it.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why dont you just admit that you do sin and that you are not perfect?

Can you??

But im tired of your yelling, its between you and God.

God bless

 

[Phoneman777]

Why dont you just admit that you do sin and that you are not perfect?

Can you??

But im tired of your yelling, its between you and God.

God bless

What unseen power is in your life that is twisting your arm and forcing you to commit sin? Is it Satan or one of his demons or is it some voodoo witch that has cast a spell on you? Of course, the obvious answer is that no one forces us to sin: we choose to sin and every single time we sin, we have made the choice to do it. So, now that we know that sin is always a choice, then why do you continue to choose to sin every day?

Good gravy, brother, do you not realize that every time Satan gets you to sin, he throws it up in God's face? Can't you hear him? "Lord, is this your servant mrhealth? Is this the one who says he loves you so much for what you did for him on the Cross? Look how easily I got him to turn his back on you and break your commandments! Ha ha ha ha!!!!

And all God can do is just sit there and take it, because there is nothing to say. Instead of breaking God's heart every day, why don't you try resisting the devil for a change and give heaven a reason to rejoice instead?

 

[Phoneman777]

FYI, the text "If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us" refers to people like Ted Turner who claim to have no need for salvation because they claim they have no sin. It does not mean that Christians continue to sin presumptuously after they accept Jesus as their Savior ad Lord. This same John actually says that those who are in Christ "cannot sin because His seed remaineth in him."

Got it? How can Christians "have sin" if they "cannot sin"? Let's not wrongly divide the word of truth, people, but let's read "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Check the Scriptures before you claim that those who are overcoming sin are liars while you who fall over every time the devil comes around claim to be "more than conquerors".

 

[zeke25]

Why dont you just admit that you do sin and that you are not perfect?

Can you??

But im tired of your yelling, its between you and God.

God bless

mjrhealth,

Every time the enemy of our souls makes an accusation to the Father, regarding a my sin and yours, we have an advocate. Christ stands there and checks his list and says, "Sorry, that one's covered already. I took care of that at Calvary." Those under the Torah do not have that cover. Those blasphemers that mock the shed Blood of Christ, do not have that cover. Just as Ishmael mocked the child of promise - Isaac - so do the children of the bond woman still mock the children of promise even today. And the time will come when the Father will order that the children of the bond woman, except they repent, be cast into outer darkness. Can I get an Amen?

1 John 1:8 KJV, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Why dont you just admit that you do sin and that you are not perfect?

Can you??

But im tired of your yelling, its between you and God.

God bless

Brother, don't believe the lies of Satan which some here hold as truth. Presumptuous sins are not covered by the blood of Jesus, though those who love sin would like that to be so. The Bible is clear that "he that covereth his sin shall not prosper, but whosoever CONFESSETH AND FORSAKETH his sin shall have mercy." People who claim to love Jesus but continue daily to indulge the same lustful desires haven't forsaken anything - they faithfully keep their appointment with Satan every day, and will meet him in the Lake of Fire, as well.

 

[mjrhealth]

Zeke I know who Jesus is, I know God and i know teh devil though I wish I didnt, but that is what being a Christian is all about. How can one fight an enemy one knows nothing about. The false propets wil lalways shout down those with teh truth.

Now that He has nothing to throw he relegates to spewing file condemnation out of his mouth.

He cant say he sins, because if he did, than he would have broken all the commandments, but by not admitting he sins he declares himself a liar which is a sin and so has broken the ten commanments, but his religion requires him to keep them as I said around the circle we go.Is it God they try to please or it it men? I wonder. The truth is their for Him to see if He chooses to see the truth.

In al His Love

Phone man Im not afraid to admit I am not perfect thats why I need Christ. This world cannot perfect me neither can I perfect myself. The glory is all His none is mine.

 

[Phoneman777]

Zeke I know who Jesus is, I know God and i know teh devil though I wish I didnt, but that is what being a Christian is all about. How can one fight an enemy one knows nothing about. The false propets wil lalways shout down those with teh truth.

Now that He has nothing to throw he relegates to spewing file condemnation out of his mouth.

He cant say he sins, because if he did, than he would have broken all the commandments, but by not admitting he sins he declares himself a liar which is a sin and so has broken the ten commanments, but his religion requires him to keep them as I said around the circle we go.Is it God they try to please or it it men? I wonder. The truth is their for Him to see if He chooses to see the truth.

In al His Love

Phone man Im not afraid to admit I am not perfect thats why I need Christ. This world cannot perfect me neither can I perfect myself. The glory is all His none is mine.

mrhealth, stop making excuses for your deliberate daily choice to sin against God. Do you not love Jesus enough to keep His commandments? Then choose to obey Him. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to give into the devil when he comes with his temptation.

 

[Axehead]

This is really sad that this thread would be allowed to continue.

 

[zeke25]

This is really sad that this thread would be allowed to continue.

I agree. Quite a while back I requested that it be locked. Didn't happen, I got no answer and didn't ask again.

 

[mjrhealth]

This is really sad that this thread would be allowed to continue.
Yep,

woul;d be a good thing

 

[face2face]

F2F,

So, you're going to dodge the question? Are you SDA or former SDA? You give the impression of one who is a deceiver. Since you've chosen to jump in, then show yourself for who and what you are. But to tuck your tail between your legs and run doesn't sound like one who is committed to the Word of God.

zeke25

Hi Zeke
No, I am not an SDA or have I ever been one.
I jumped in as you put it, to induce a peaceful discourse about the Sabbath and the Mosaic Law but clearly the conversation has turned toxic and offensive.
UnChristlike accusations are flying and no, my commitment to this spirit is to withdraw and rest quietly until the proud learn to be silent. Immaturity is expressed in careless and thoughtless words which is the example here. Insults are the quickest way to lose credibility. Didn't your parents teach you this? Many here are not wearing their preants honour like a necklace, but trampling them underfoot.
I believe I am not alone in this view.
Great OP and thread just needs a little help thats all.
F2F

 

[UppsalaDragby]

"Little children, keep yourselves from idols." - 1 John 5:21 KJV (According to John, the Second Commandment of the Ten Commandments is still binding upon Christians).

Paul said, "Let him that stole steal no more". That's the 8th Commandment which Paul forbids Christians to break.

I didn't ask you where John mentioned ONE commandment, I asked you where he mentioned "the 10 commandments".

That is central to this discussion because it involves the false argument that Christians are bound to keep the 10 commandments ... and yet ignore the rest. You have submitted verses with the insinuation that John's reference to "commandments" are restricted to, and only involve, the 10 commandments. And verses that say that we should not worship idols nor steal does not that mean we are under the 10 commandments.

We are under a completely different law system that works differently than the old, and there is absolutely nothing in scripture that indicates the fact that the 10 commandments have been passed on to the New Covenant leaving everything behind. Being under the 10 commandments doesn't make anyone keep them, just as I have pointed out time and time again. The laws of the Old Covenant don't produce the kind of fruit that is required for a righteous life. The law of the New Covenant do.

So again, where is your supporting evidence that shows that whenever John mentions the word "commandments" he is referring to the 10 commandments?