Faulty logic once again I'm afraid. Why do you think that the fact that both covenants were made with the house of Israel mean that we are still under the first one? That doesn't make sence, and it is not what Jeremiah 31 is saying at all. You might as well use the same argument that we are all bound by a covenant that requires us to keep all the 613 commandments in that covenant!
You even cite the verse that says that the first covenant was faulty, and yet you not only think we are under a covenant that scripture says is faulty, you think we are under a covenant that scripture says is obsolete. That's totally wrong.
You have totally misunderstood what I said.
The fact is that both commandments were made with Israel. BOTH of them.
But who is Israel?
We are not under the Old Covenant, and I never, ever said that we are. You have completely twisted my words all out of proportion.
What I said is that, if you reject the first Covenant because it was made with Israel, then you have no part of the second Covenant. Not that they are the same Covenant, but that they are made with the same people.
Nope. If they were then all 613 commandments would obviously apply. Every stroke of the pen, every "dot and title" all of it. What on earth do you think a covenant is? It is like a contract that you sign and bind yourself to ALL of its terms.
Look again.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Let me repeat that, just in case you missed it the first time. Speaking of the New Covenant (not the Old Covenant, but the NEW Covenant, let's make that very clear), God says"
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Will this NEW Covenant include God's law? What did He say?
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Not The Barrd's law, or the Phoneman's law...God said "I will put MY laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts:"
The Barrd isn't doing the writing, nor is the Phoneman. God is the One Who is doing the writing, and what He is writing are His laws.
The Barrd didn't write Hebrews, and I'm pretty sure Phoneman didn't either. I'm simply repeating to you what the Bible says.
Yes, a Covenant is a contract. God has His part, and we have ours. God has fulfilled His part. What do you think our part is?
Yes, the New Covenant...not the Old Covenant, which no longer applies, but the NEW Covenant...does contain God's law.
How do I know this? Phoneman didn't tell me this. I didn't tell Phoneman. We both got the news from the same source.
Because God said so.
Who is saying that there is no more law? What I am saying is that the Mosaic law no longer applies to us, which I have shown you time and time again. It has nothing to do with removing the penalty. If you remove the penalty from a law then it is no longer a law. The correct way to deal with this is to acknowledge what scripture says - we are no longer under the supervision of the Mosaic law.
You are contradicting yourself here, but no matter.
What do you think Jesus was doing, hanging on the cross?
Was He paying the penalty for our sin? If not, what was He doing?
Now, if I owe you a debt I cannot pay, and someone else...let's say Phoneman...comes along and says "Gee, The Barrd can never pay this debt. I'm gonna be a good guy and pay this loan off for her." Would I then, still owe you any money? Of course not. My debt would be paid. I'd be an idiot to keep trying to pay you myself, wouldn't I?
And, of course, I would be deeply grateful to my benefactor...in this case, the Phoneman. He would have himself a loyal friend to the end.
(Relax, Phoneman, I'm not expecting you to pay my debts. Unless you just really want to....
)
Now, on a much larger scale, this is what Jesus has done for us. We have all of us broken God's law. We have sinned. No use to say we haven't, God says we have. We are guilty.
What is the penalty?
Well, you know what it is.
You have said it yourself. It is death.
But Jesus paid that penalty.
Thus, the penalty for breaking the law has been paid.
That doesn't mean the law has been repealed. It only means that the penalty has been paid.
And once again, I am not referring to Mosaic Law. Do try to keep up.
That scripture says nothing whatsoever about law. You need to read what it says, not what you want it to say. Gal 5 teaches us that there are fruits that identify whether or not we are on course - i.e. following the law of Christ. If we follow the spirit then we will bear good fruit, if we follow the flesh then our fruit will be bad. It says nothing about the 10 commandments, and I would challenge you to show me one verse that indicates that being under the 10 commandments produces good fruit. As it is, scripture says the exact opposite, just as the historical account of the gospel also shows us.
That scripture gives a list of behaviors that will keep you from inheriting the Kingdom of God.
They are the sorts of things that someone with no law to guide him or her might get involved in.
"Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like"...that's quite a list. Many, if not most of these things are covered in the Ten Commandments.
Best way to stay out of trouble would be to keep the commandments...
This is getting way too long.
And I'm falling asleep sitting up...I've been up all night.
Very quickly, I will say again....this is the NEW Covenant, not the Old one. It is made with Israel. It includes the Ten C's. And it grace.
Have a great day!
You even cite the verse that says that the first covenant was faulty, and yet you not only think we are under a covenant that scripture says is faulty, you think we are under a covenant that scripture says is obsolete. That's totally wrong.
You have totally misunderstood what I said.
The fact is that both commandments were made with Israel. BOTH of them.
But who is Israel?
We are not under the Old Covenant, and I never, ever said that we are. You have completely twisted my words all out of proportion.
What I said is that, if you reject the first Covenant because it was made with Israel, then you have no part of the second Covenant. Not that they are the same Covenant, but that they are made with the same people.
Nope. If they were then all 613 commandments would obviously apply. Every stroke of the pen, every "dot and title" all of it. What on earth do you think a covenant is? It is like a contract that you sign and bind yourself to ALL of its terms.
Look again.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Let me repeat that, just in case you missed it the first time. Speaking of the New Covenant (not the Old Covenant, but the NEW Covenant, let's make that very clear), God says"
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Will this NEW Covenant include God's law? What did He say?
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
Not The Barrd's law, or the Phoneman's law...God said "I will put MY laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts:"
The Barrd isn't doing the writing, nor is the Phoneman. God is the One Who is doing the writing, and what He is writing are His laws.
The Barrd didn't write Hebrews, and I'm pretty sure Phoneman didn't either. I'm simply repeating to you what the Bible says.
Yes, a Covenant is a contract. God has His part, and we have ours. God has fulfilled His part. What do you think our part is?
Yes, the New Covenant...not the Old Covenant, which no longer applies, but the NEW Covenant...does contain God's law.
How do I know this? Phoneman didn't tell me this. I didn't tell Phoneman. We both got the news from the same source.
Because God said so.
Who is saying that there is no more law? What I am saying is that the Mosaic law no longer applies to us, which I have shown you time and time again. It has nothing to do with removing the penalty. If you remove the penalty from a law then it is no longer a law. The correct way to deal with this is to acknowledge what scripture says - we are no longer under the supervision of the Mosaic law.
You are contradicting yourself here, but no matter.
What do you think Jesus was doing, hanging on the cross?
Was He paying the penalty for our sin? If not, what was He doing?
Now, if I owe you a debt I cannot pay, and someone else...let's say Phoneman...comes along and says "Gee, The Barrd can never pay this debt. I'm gonna be a good guy and pay this loan off for her." Would I then, still owe you any money? Of course not. My debt would be paid. I'd be an idiot to keep trying to pay you myself, wouldn't I?
And, of course, I would be deeply grateful to my benefactor...in this case, the Phoneman. He would have himself a loyal friend to the end.
(Relax, Phoneman, I'm not expecting you to pay my debts. Unless you just really want to....
)Now, on a much larger scale, this is what Jesus has done for us. We have all of us broken God's law. We have sinned. No use to say we haven't, God says we have. We are guilty.
What is the penalty?
Well, you know what it is.
You have said it yourself. It is death.
But Jesus paid that penalty.
Thus, the penalty for breaking the law has been paid.
That doesn't mean the law has been repealed. It only means that the penalty has been paid.
And once again, I am not referring to Mosaic Law. Do try to keep up.
That scripture says nothing whatsoever about law. You need to read what it says, not what you want it to say. Gal 5 teaches us that there are fruits that identify whether or not we are on course - i.e. following the law of Christ. If we follow the spirit then we will bear good fruit, if we follow the flesh then our fruit will be bad. It says nothing about the 10 commandments, and I would challenge you to show me one verse that indicates that being under the 10 commandments produces good fruit. As it is, scripture says the exact opposite, just as the historical account of the gospel also shows us.
That scripture gives a list of behaviors that will keep you from inheriting the Kingdom of God.
They are the sorts of things that someone with no law to guide him or her might get involved in.
"Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like"...that's quite a list. Many, if not most of these things are covered in the Ten Commandments.
Best way to stay out of trouble would be to keep the commandments...
This is getting way too long.
And I'm falling asleep sitting up...I've been up all night.
Very quickly, I will say again....this is the NEW Covenant, not the Old one. It is made with Israel. It includes the Ten C's. And it grace.
Have a great day!
