Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

There is no "yet" in that scripture. You're adding to scripture. That's a no no. Eternal is eternal Phoneman. Are you going to add "yet" to these scriptures too..I guess John lied to us. We can't be confident........1 John 5:13-14 NIV.....

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

ATP, if you want to try and obtain eternal life by the dead faith of OSAS, they go ahead, but you should know that we can only obtain that by living faith. You MUST obey the commandments of God because refusal to do so proves to the world and the universe at large that you do not have Jesus in your heart...because only by the power of Jesus is obedience possible for the Christian.

 

[Phoneman777]

And believing in Jesus is also believing that God raised Jesus from the dead and believing He is your ultimate Savior.

The Bible says "he that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved", which refers to water baptism, and not Holy Ghost baptism alone. What about that?

 

[ATP]

Are you grateful to Him, then, ATP?

When I wake up I feel like I'm in a dream. Does that answer your question.

ATP, if you want to try and obtain eternal life by the dead faith of OSAS, they go ahead, but you should know that we can only obtain that by living faith. You MUST obey the commandments of God because refusal to do so proves to the world and the universe at large that you do not have Jesus in your heart...because only by the power of Jesus is obedience possible for the Christian.

But scripture tells me that my faith comes through believing and not of works. If Jesus didn't pay our sin debt then the free gift of salvation isn't free at all, and Jesus lied. Doesn't justification only come once?

Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 3:21-31 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 sincethere is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

2 Cor 4:13 NIV It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,

Gal 3:11-26 NIV Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. 15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add o a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

The Bible says "he that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved", which refers to water baptism, and not Holy Ghost baptism alone. What about that?

Salvation comes through faith, not by dipping your head in a lake or whatever religious people do. Water baptism here is spiritual water flowing from the kingdom of heaven directly into your soul. The Bible calls this anointing. Looks like the water Jesus gives me will be like a spring of water welling up to eternal life. These are the blessings that are given through the Holy Spirit. How do we receive these blessings? By believing Phoneman. Phone it in....John 7:38, 39 NIV........

Isa 12:3 NIV With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

John 4:13-14 NIV Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 7:38-39 NIV Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

 

[zeke25]

When I wake up I feel like I'm in a dream. Does that answer your question.


But scripture tells me that my faith comes through believing and not of works. If Jesus didn't pay our sin debt then the free gift of salvation isn't free at all, and Jesus lied. Doesn't justification only come once?

Eph 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

2 Cor 4:13 NIV It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,

Gal 3:11-26 NIV Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. 15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add o a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,


Salvation comes through faith, not by dipping your head in a lake or whatever religious people do. Water baptism here is spiritual water flowing from the kingdom of heaven directly into your soul. The Bible calls this anointing. Looks like the water Jesus gives me will be like a spring of water welling up to eternal life. These are the blessings that are given through the Holy Spirit. How do we receive these blessings? By believing Phoneman. Phone it in....John 7:38, 39 NIV........

Isa 12:3 NIV With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.

John 4:13-14 NIV Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 7:38-39 NIV Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

ATP,

The 3 are not listening. You know, it is the "he who has ears let him hear" concept. Might as well take them back to the OP. They won't listen there either, but at least you'll be on track. God bless you. B)

zeke25

 

[ATP]

ATP,

The 3 are not listening. You know, it is the "he who has ears let him hear" concept. Might as well take them back to the OP. They won't listen there either, but at least you'll be on track. God bless you. B)

zeke25

God bless you too friend. I like to meditate on Rom 3 also. Faith through believing..

Rom 3:21-31 NIV But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 sincethere is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

- ATP :)

 

[Barrd]

When I wake up I feel like I'm in a dream. Does that answer your question.

No, not really. Do you feel a sense of gratitude toward Jesus Christ for what He has suffered for your sake? Are you thankful?

 

[mjrhealth]

No, not really. Do you feel a sense of gratitude toward Jesus Christ for what He has suffered for your sake? Are you thankful?

We do, thats why we believe in Him and all the work He did, instead of trying to prove to the world that we can do a better Job, our faith is in Jesus the Risen Lord, not our flesh not our works. God sees those who are in Christ, "perfect" because of Jesus, because of Him and the work He did, we are redeemed back to God, and have put on the"righteousness" of Christ, not our own, for He died "once" and for all.

Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

See all the Law does is prove your guilt.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

AMEN

 

[Barrd]

We do, thats why we believe in Him and all the work He did, instead of trying to prove to the world that we can do a better Job, our faith is in Jesus the Risen Lord, not our flesh not our works. God sees those who are in Christ, "perfect" because of Jesus, because of Him and the work He did, we are redeemed back to God, and have put on the"righteousness" of Christ, not our own, for He died "once" and for all.

Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

See all the Law does is prove your guilt.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

AMEN

*sigh*
I know we've been over this.
Paul was not preaching that the law has been "done away"...only that we are not justified by works of the law. We certainly aren't justified by lawlessness, either!

Hear what Peter has to say about this controversy:
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Keeping that in mind, let's look at what Paul really had to say about the law:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

You quoted Romans 3. But you evidently did not read the entire chapter, only taking out of it what your "itching ears" wanted to hear, and ignoring what you do not want to hear.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

So, is Paul saying, then, that we no longer need to keep the law? No, he is not saying any such thing!

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Yes, yes, Paul told us that we are not justified by works of the law...we have all sinned, every mother's child of us, and fallen short of the glory of God. But does that mean that we are to just throw up our hands and quit trying? Not at all!

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Remember that "sin" means the transgression of the law. So, do we continue to transgress against the law, so that grace may abound, Paul asks? What is his answer?

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

God forbid! As, indeed, God does forbid. This notion that you may continue in your sin, and somehow, this, in your warped mind, means that you are fulfilling the law of love is a very twisted rendition of what Jesus Christ and His apostles, including Paul, taught.

If you truly love the Lord, Jesus Christ...if you truly believe in Him, as you say you do, you will believe His words to you. His words will come before anyone or anything else.
Thus, when you read the words of the apostles, even including Paul, you will read them in the LIGHT given to you by the Lord of Light. You do not abandon the words of Christ in order to follow some warped interpretation of the words of Paul...and Paul would be the first one to tell you that.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I could go on, and on, and on, quoting verse after verse, from the gospels, from Acts, from Paul and the other apostles' epistles...even from Revelation, that all agree....the law is still binding. No, we can't keep it perfectly. Because we are weak, we will "mess up"...that's why we need grace, not to free us from the law, but to forgive us when we mess up.
But this one, simple verse is more than enough. If you love Jesus, you will keep His commandments. If you do not, you will look for loopholes...you you will twist and twist the scriptures to excuse yourself for your sin, loving your flesh more than you love the Lord Jesus Christ.
Of course, you will not hear the voices of His disciples...not those speaking to you through God's Word, nor those trying to speak to you in your own time.

 

[ATP]

*sigh*Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If ye love me, keep my commandments or you will lose your salvation.

 

[ATP]

ATP, if you want to try and obtain eternal life by the dead faith of OSAS, they go ahead, but you should know that we can only obtain that by living faith. You MUST obey the commandments of God because refusal to do so proves to the world and the universe at large that you do not have Jesus in your heart...because only by the power of Jesus is obedience possible for the Christian.

Looks like we're free after all and belong to God's family forever.

John 8:34-36 NIV Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Rom 8:15-17 NIV The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Eph 1:4-5 NIV For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

 

[Barrd]

If ye love me, keep my commandments or you will lose your salvation.

Isn't "If ye love me, keep my commandments" enough for you?

But I will answer you with Christ's parable of the wheat and the tares. You've probably read it, but for those who have not, here it is:
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

An enemy has planted weeds among the wheat...
But let's hear Jesus' explanation of this parable. He can explain it so much better than I can:

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Your highly simplified remark is designed to make me look foolish, thinking that Jesus would punish Christians who sin. But here we see that there are "children of the wicked one" hidden in among the "children of the kingdom"...they look like Christians...but they are not.
But "the servants of the householder" can tell the difference. God is not fooled even for a minute.

So I would edit your remark to read:

If ye love me, keep my commandments or you will lose your salvation.
Because if you love Him, you will want to please Him. When you do slip up and sin, you will be sad, because you have disappointed Him. And you will repent.

 

[ATP]

Isn't "If ye love me, keep my commandments" enough for you?

Yes it is.

 

[Barrd]

Looks like we're free after all and belong to God's family forever.

John 8:34-36 NIV Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Rom 8:15-17 NIV The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Eph 1:4-5 NIV For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

Those verses do not contradict what Phoneman said, because:

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So, if you are truly a son, adopted into God's forever family, God will "chastise" you. You will repent, even if He has to drag you by the ear back to "ye old woodshed", and give you a good old fashioned whipping.
Speaking in a spiritual sense, of course....

 

[ATP]

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So, if you are truly a son, adopted into God's forever family, God will "chastise" you. You will repent, even if He has to drag you by the ear back to "ye old woodshed", and give you a good old fashioned whipping.
Speaking in a spiritual sense, of course....

I agree. Well said Barrd.

 

[Barrd]

I agree. Well said Barrd.

Thank you, Sir.
This is what I've been saying all along....
I'm glad you finally see it my way.

 

[ATP]

Thank you, Sir.
This is what I've been saying all along....
I'm glad you finally see it my way.

Well, what you've been teaching is if a believer dies in his sin he's going to hell. But how can that be when Jesus paid the sin debt.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is no "yet" in that scripture. You're adding to scripture. That's a no no. Eternal is eternal Phoneman. Are you going to add "yet" to these scriptures too..I guess John lied to us. We can't be confident........1 John 5:13-14 NIV.....

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

We can be confident in our salvation if we are surrendered to Jesus, which everyone will agree is truth.

 

[Barrd]

Well, what you've been teaching is if a believer dies in his sin he's going to hell. But how can that be when Jesus paid the sin debt.

No, ATP.
What I've been saying (I am not pretending to be a teacher, I'm a writer, which I suppose is a kind of a teacher) is that if....or we should say WHEN a believer sins, he must repent of that sin.
YOU are the one talking about "if Joe Bob dies before he repents"...and I told you that it's all about attitude.

Don't you think Jesus knows your heart? Surely, He would know whether or not Joe Bob's heart was turned toward Him, or not.

Your scenario of the believer who sins and then dies shortly after tries to put me in the position of judging that person, when only Jesus would know his/her heart. I cannot say that if he lived until tomorrow that he would not repent....and neither can you.

However, I will continue to say that a believer who continues to sin, over and over again, indulging his flesh without any remorse, is not going to heaven based solely on his or her belief. I will continue to say that a someone who truly believes in Jesus Christ will also believe His words, and will strive to live by His teachings. If they do not, I would hesitate to call them "believers"....they may look like wheat, but if they do not bear fruit or if they try to choke out the living wheat, they are not wheat, but tares, fit only for the fire.

 

[Barrd]

We can be confident in our salvation if we are surrendered to Jesus, which everyone will agree is truth.

AMEN, Phoneman

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess John lied to us. We can't be confident......1 John 5:13-14 NIV.

ATP, no one lied to us. No Bible writer, including John ever taught that confidence in Christ's salvation can accompany active rebellion to Christ.