Sabbath or Sunday? What did Jesus teach & show in scripture?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That video isn't even related to this topic

 

[Hobie]

It's always odd to see people clinging to the old testament and rejecting what the New Testament says about the LAW...

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Law of Christ
In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.

Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Yes, we see that everywhere...

Matthew 5:27
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

And then they expand on it...
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[mailmandan]

Folks who make this much fuss over keeping the weekly sabbath day (along with obeying the 10 commandments in general) demonstrate what they are really trusting in for salvation and it's not Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9)

 

[Hobie]

Folks who make this much fuss over keeping the weekly sabbath day (along with obeying the 10 commandments in general) demonstrate what they are really trusting in for salvation and it's not Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9)

But what does Christ say....

 

[mailmandan]

But what does Christ say....

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (does not keep the sabbath day/does not obey the 10 commandments? NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (kept the sabbath day/has not obeyed the 10 commandments? NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Hobie]

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (does not keep the sabbath day/does not obey the 10 commandments? NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (kept the sabbath day/has not obeyed the 10 commandments? NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you love me, keep my Commandments...

 

[mailmandan]

If you love me, keep my Commandments...

Your best efforts to obey the 10 commandments cannot save you. (Romans 10:1-4; 2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Philippians 3:9) We have all fallen short. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) God's commandments for the body of Christ. That is the demonstrative evidence of our love for Jesus (John 14:15) and also that we have come to know the Lord. (1 John 2:3) Sabbath keeping is not binding on the church. (Colossians 2:16-17) We are not under the law of Moses. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15 etc..).

Your broken record arguments revolve around the idea that you confidently (and self-righteously) believe that you have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and will receive eternal life based on that standard, while NT believers who do not set out to keep the sabbath day have not kept His commandments and will be condemned. I am often reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector (Luke 18:9-14) whenever I read your endless misconstrued posts about the sabbath.

 

[RedFan]

Imagine three hypothetical alternative commands:

A. "Thou shalt rest and worship every seventh day. I'll pick the day of the week."

B. "Thou shalt rest and worship every seventh day. You pick the day of the week. The important thing is that you do it every seventh day, not which day of the week is set aside for it."

C. "Thou shalt rest and worship every seventh day. If you want to establish a convention of seven-day periods as "weeks" and give each 24-hour slice of that 168-hour period a separate name to help you remember to keep every seventh day as a day of rest and worship -- names that didn't exist when I created the universe in six days and rested on the seventh -- feel free; I could care less. Just like I could care less whether you count in Base 10. (I gave you ten fingers and ten toes, and anyone could have predicted that this would lead you to a Base 10 counting approach -- but it hardly matters to me how you count, as long as you set aside every seventh day for rest and worship.)"

Which of A, B or C do you favor, either as a matter of SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT or as a matter of LOGIC?

 

[Hobie]

Your best efforts to obey the 10 commandments cannot save you. (Romans 10:1-4; 2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Philippians 3:9) We have all fallen short. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) God's commandments for the body of Christ. That is the demonstrative evidence of our love for Jesus (John 14:15) and also that we have come to know the Lord. (1 John 2:3) Sabbath keeping is not binding on the church. (Colossians 2:16-17) We are not under the law of Moses. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15 etc..).

Your broken record arguments revolve around the idea that you confidently (and self-righteously) believe that you have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and will receive eternal life based on that standard, while NT believers who do not set out to keep the sabbath day have not kept His commandments and will be condemned. I am often reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector (Luke 18:9-14) whenever I read your endless misconstrued posts about the sabbath.

So what Christ says is of no importance?

 

[mailmandan]

So what Christ says is of no importance?

Straw man argument meant to divert. Are you an Israelite under the law? Everything Jesus said was good, but 'not everything' he said applied to directly to Christian's post-cross. Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find stories of grace and declarations of law. If you mix these two messages, you will end up confused and double-minded. The solution is not to mix law and grace but to filter everything you read through the finished work of Jesus on the cross. (Romans 3:24-28) You need to understand what Jesus did and why he did it.

Jesus lived at the crossroads of the old and new covenants. As the Savior of the world, he came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we may relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in his blood. (Matthew 26:27-28; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6-9) Since the new covenant could not begin before Jesus died (Hebrews 9:16) Jesus lived all of his pre-cross life under the old covenant of law. Galatians 4:4 - But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Jesus was born under the law and every Israelite that Jesus met was also under the law. We need to keep this in mind when reading the red letters of Jesus. When the religious people of Jesus' day came to trap him with questions, Jesus would respond with answers like, “What did Moses command you?” (Mark 10:3) When someone asked Jesus, “What is the greatest commandment in the law?” Jesus would provide an answer from the law. (Matthew 22:36) Jesus upholds Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. His law-keeping ministry honored the law of Moses, yet the body of Christ in the NT is not under the law of Moses. (Romans 6:14; 10:4)

Romans 3:19 - Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior. Galatians 3:24 - Therefore, the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jesus came to fulfill the law and reveal grace, but those who are confident of their own righteousness will not receive it. (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[Hobie]

Straw man argument meant to divert. Are you an Israelite under the law? Everything Jesus said was good, but 'not everything' he said applied to directly to Christian's post-cross. Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find stories of grace and declarations of law. If you mix these two messages, you will end up confused and double-minded. The solution is not to mix law and grace but to filter everything you read through the finished work of Jesus on the cross. (Romans 3:24-28) You need to understand what Jesus did and why he did it.

Jesus lived at the crossroads of the old and new covenants. As the Savior of the world, he came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we may relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in his blood. (Matthew 26:27-28; Luke 22:20; 2 Corinthians 3:6-9) Since the new covenant could not begin before Jesus died (Hebrews 9:16) Jesus lived all of his pre-cross life under the old covenant of law. Galatians 4:4 - But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.

Jesus was born under the law and every Israelite that Jesus met was also under the law. We need to keep this in mind when reading the red letters of Jesus. When the religious people of Jesus' day came to trap him with questions, Jesus would respond with answers like, “What did Moses command you?” (Mark 10:3) When someone asked Jesus, “What is the greatest commandment in the law?” Jesus would provide an answer from the law. (Matthew 22:36) Jesus upholds Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. His law-keeping ministry honored the law of Moses, yet the body of Christ in the NT is not under the law of Moses. (Romans 6:14; 10:4)

Romans 3:19 - Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior. Galatians 3:24 - Therefore, the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Jesus came to fulfill the law and reveal grace, but those who are confident of their own righteousness will not receive it. (Luke 18:9-14)

It's God's Word, but some choose to turn from it..

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So what Christ says is of no importance?

He never said Christians in the New Covenant are required to observe Saturday sabbath.

That's an inconvenient truth the Saturday peoples won't ever be able to over come since there's no scripture where Jesus or His Apostles are saying "and thou shalt observeth thy Saturday sabbatheth"

Of course Saturday peoples will continue in error claiming they are the only ones that are saved

 

[mailmandan]

It's God's Word, but some choose to turn from it..

According to your logic you remain under the law of Moses.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Timothy 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

According to your logic you remain under the law of Moses.

I just thought if this to add...

Hebrews 7:14-16
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The old covenant high priests followed carnal commandments that could not bring life (Gal 3:11), but in the New Covenant Jesus is our High Priest not after the law of carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life

The old covenant is of carnal commandment as they achieved their righteousness only thru doing physical works one of which is observing Saturday sabbath which was required to be in right standing with the Lord among other things.

Under the New Covenant our right standing is thru abiding IN Christ, resting IN Him, having ceased from our own works having turned from living in sin to being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Summed up in Hebrews 4:1-11

Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[BarneyFife]

The old covenant is of carnal commandment as they achieved their righteousness only thru doing physical works one of which is observing Saturday sabbath which was required to be in right standing with the Lord among other things.

That again??

"Physical works" of RESTING once a week?

There are no "carnal" commandments listed in Exodus 20.

It simply can't be referring to the same law.

Verses 16-18 of Hebrews 7 says the law that is being changed is carnal/fleshly, weak, and unprofitable:

Heb 7:16-18
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

But Romans 7 says that the law is spiritual, holy, just and good.

Rom 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Verse 14 even directly contrasts "spiritual" with "carnal," thoroughly impeaching the theory that Hebrews 7 is talking about the moral law being changed.

Are we really supposed to believe that "carnal" = "spiritual" and that "weak and unprofitable" = "holy, just, and good?"

I'm just reading the non-big boy peoples manipulated, regular old B-I-B-L-E here.

.

 

[Cassandra]

According to your logic you remain under the law of Moses.

That is not the Law of Moses!!!Ten commandment were in force before Moses!!! Cain was judged by them, the antediluvians were judged by them--Sodom and Gomorrah as well.

According to your logic, there were no laws in place before Moses.

 

[BarneyFife]

The old covenant is of carnal commandment as they achieved their righteousness only thru doing physical works

The old covenant never made anyone righteous.

Hebrews 11 talks all about it.

Gen 15:3-6 KJV
And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

*[[Hab 2:4]]* Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

*[[Rom 1:17]]* For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

*[[Gal 3:11]]* But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

*[[Heb 10:38]]* Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yes, we see that everywhere...

And sadly you Saturday peoples ignore and reject the New Covenant.

Sad, very sad to disrespect Jesus like this. He does not appreciate it and judgement will follow.