That's a 'Earburner' scripture quote alright, as a reminder and a stir up of memory, thank you.
SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
I think that the words of the Holy Spirit through James is a better judge of that, than you or I.
James 3
[13] Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his WORKS [of wisdom] with [God's] meekness of wisdom.
[14] But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth, [who is Christ].
[15] This [WORK of] wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
[16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil WORK.
[17] But the [WORK of] wisdom that is from above** is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, FULL OF mercy and good fruits [intentions of God's righteousness], without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
[18] And the fruit [WORK] of [God's] righteousness is sown [by Him] in peace, of THEM that make peace.
** 1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should NOT STAND in the [WORK of the] wisdom of men, but in the POWER [authority] of God.
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The Lord never said anything about blocking someone on a talkboard or in real life as being a sin.
1 Timothy 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
As for how I walk in the Lord's grace for the forgiveness of sin, cannot be judged by that which is "the wisdom of men", "who suppose that gain [in the getting] of worldly riches, [or even that of "the wisdom of men"] is godliness.
1 Cor. 2
[12] Now WE HAVE RECEIVED, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are FREELY given to us of God.
[13] Which things also WE SPEAK, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but [rather that] which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But WE [literally] HAVE the mind [Spirit] of Christ.
Back to Rom. 8:8-9
Now if any man have not [received] the Spirit [Mind] of Christ [literally], he is none of his.
According to all the scriptures that I have quoted in this discussion, where and when have I spoken any lie of injustice or opposition, that one should withdraw themselves from me?
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Are you paranoid thinking this is all about you? I was replying to the statement that somebody made saying that it was a sin to block another Christian on a talkboard.
It's actually not a sin! Not all body parts interact with one another... you know, your right pinkie toe rarely interacts with your left ear unless one is involved in some freak stuff!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
A schism among those who ARE the invisible body of Christ IS a sin.
MW Dictionary:
DIVISION, SEPARATION
also : DISCORD, DISHARMONY
a schism between political parties
2a: formal division in or separation from a church or religious body (ie.the members in this forum).
b: the offense of promoting schism.
I am not here for the internal back biting of arguing over any body part(s) in "the body of Christ", except to demonstrate through scripture, that not all in the visible churches are of the body of Christ. (The parable of the Wheat and the Tares). Mat. 13:24-30.
Many people are baptized by water, but only those who are baptized by the Holy Spirit of God ARE the chosen. Mat. 20:16.
Getting back to the discussion, I refer you to the OP of this thread, and the dichotomy that has been presented.
For those who DO NOT literally HAVE the Spirit of Christ within them (John 3:3-8; Rom. 8:9; 1 John 5:11-13 and Rev. 3:20), they only have an empty profession of faith, and as a result, they are very much still outside of the invisible body of Christ. In other words, the KoG, who is Christ Himself, is NOT WITHIN them, and they are only living life parallel to the KoG, having never entered into it.
Therefore, all of such, are able to cause SCHISMS against the invisible body of Christ, WHO ARE those who have literally been given "the faith OF Jesus" (Rev. 14:12), which is what Paul describes in 1 Cor. 2:5.
As I have shown in numerous posts, Jesus Himself clearly defines how one becomes a member of His body, and not that of what religious "church-ianity" says the body of Christ is.
No visible denomination of church-ianity is able to GIVE the Holy Spirit of God to anyone, even if they are baptized by water.
That giving of God's GIFT of Eternal Life, only takes place in the day when the Holy Spirit of God literally takes up permanent residence within the believer. Only THEN is Heb. 13:5 fulfilled....I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
According to Rev. 3:20, Jesus says Himself, that He is able and willing to GIVE the Holy Spirit of God to all persons at anytime, but only after they repent towards God, that being with or without the baptism by water.
Again, please read and digest all of 1 Cor. ch. 2
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It doesn't say blocking someone is a sin.... sometimes people are
full of BULLony and we don't need to be listening to their BULL
(see 1 Timothy 6:5)
Earburner
Well-Known Member
That depends on whose "works" are being manifested within us and through us.
Is it the Spirit of Christ doing His good works in us and through us, or are WE doing good works by our ownself, which is self righteousness, seeking a reward??
Gal. 5:13-26
[13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, [of our flesh] which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies [aka-disunion, dissention, division, SCHISMS ],
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit [works] of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that ARE Christ's have [BY the WORK of Christ] crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we LIVE [are alive] in the Spirit, let us also walk [orderly] in the Spirit [as shown in verses 22-23].
[26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
BACK TO Rom. 8:8-9
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Blocking someone is NOT a sin.... sometimes people are
full of BULLony and we don't need to be listening to their BULL
(see 1 Timothy 6:5)
full of BULLony and we don't need to be listening to their BULL
(see 1 Timothy 6:5)
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Yes, 1 Tim. 6:5 is a definite problem among the saints, that are "peppered" among all the visible churches, but the context of that problem has it's own conclusion:
[10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
I'm not the one misunderstanding 1 Tim. 6:5, but rather it is those who are following after the wrong conclusion of the OP's presentation, of what the false dichotomy is.
For all of that presentation, it falsely shows that WE, through our flesh, are TO DO "good works", but NEVER does it specifically define:
1. what those good works are,
2. the origin of them,
3. who it is that is
4. doing the "good works"
5. WITHIN US, His Born Again saints.
Maybe, you also can find those "good works", being THAT of the mind/Spirit of Christ Himself within you, which are clearly defined in Gal. 5:22-23.
Back to 1 Cor. 2:5 and Rom. 8:8-9.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
So then, getting to the spiritual point of what we are to determine for what is good works, (aka godliness), there are only TWO options.
1. That which the Lord establishes within us, that is of His own divine nature.
2. That which we establish for our own selves, that is of our own fallen nature.
Both are defined in the following:
#1. 2 Peter 1[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
#2. 2 Tim. 3[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Therefore, godliness is NOT determined by what one DOES, but rather by what one IS MADE TO BE.
1. That which the Lord establishes within us, that is of His own divine nature.
2. That which we establish for our own selves, that is of our own fallen nature.
Both are defined in the following:
#1. 2 Peter 1[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
#2. 2 Tim. 3[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Therefore, godliness is NOT determined by what one DOES, but rather by what one IS MADE TO BE.
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None the less...
Blocking someone is NOT a sin.... sometimes people are
full of BULLony and we don't need to be listening to their BULL
(see 1 Timothy 6:5)
Marymog
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- Mar 7, 2017
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Hey @Earburner and BB Johnson. I have an idea.
One of you is alleging the other is sinning against them. How about we settle your difference the way Scripture says to settle it?
15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
So, which Church would the two of you like to go to so that this 'sin' OR probably not a sin be settled between you?
For the record I am siding with BB Johnson on this so that means I am one of the 2 or 3 witnesses you need to help fulfill vs 16.
Mary
I don't consider him to have sinned against me... I'm simply saying it's not necessarily a sin to block another person that claims to be a Christian or to separate from them.
Not all body parts interact with one another and the Bible does teach the Body of Christ is likened unto the human body.
You know the feet don't really see things from the perspective of the ears... so they don't really interact with one another even though both are important parts of the body.
Sometimes feet need top do what God calls them to do and don't worry about the ears... and the ears need to do their thing without worrying about the feet.
Not all body parts interact with one another and the Bible does teach the Body of Christ is likened unto the human body.
You know the feet don't really see things from the perspective of the ears... so they don't really interact with one another even though both are important parts of the body.
Sometimes feet need top do what God calls them to do and don't worry about the ears... and the ears need to do their thing without worrying about the feet.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
John 17
20“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [j]will believe in Me through their word; 21that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Eternal Life is Jesus Himself, who is also Salvation, Righteousness, Truth. and THE Resurrection.
Here is how you get Eternal life... Reader.
Want it?
A.) JESUS said...>"ALL, that believe in me, i give unto you... ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell, (Perish)".
So, HOW does Jesus do that?
How can Jesus BE Eternal Life, and give it to you also?
Im certain that someone here can think of this question... or should....so, let me show you.
A.A)...When you are born again.. you are JOINED Spiritually to God and Jesus., for ETERNITY.
You become ONE with them, and they are Eternal Life.
That's how you RECEIVE eternal life, and that is also how you keep it.
Like this.>= "CHRIST IN YOU>. the hope of GLORY"< and Glory is HEAVEN.
If you are born again, you have eternal life already, you are "the Temple of The Holy Spirit".... and that is Why John said...."You can KNOW that you have Eternal Life"..
Its not a guess.
Its not a "well i hope so"."If im good enough".
READER.....If you are born again, and dont know you have eternal life, and you go to church, then find a real church that understands this simple Theology, that is to understand the Cross and the Grace of God.
Listen,
I have a lot of people in this world who study my Forum post and Threads.
God bless them.
Many print them out. Others use them for Sunday School Lessons, and for Sermons, and for Youtube Videos.
Often they think as they read me..>"ive never seen that before, and i see how TRUE IT IS">... "Now the NT is making sense"..
And these same people are in a church for 10-50, yrs, and "never heard this truth, these truths" that are simply Paul's Doctrine that im sharing online.
So, im glad that people find me, and God bless more of them my way, but, its interesting to know.... that people who want to know the bible and are earnestly seeking a deeper and more meaningful relationship with Truth and with GOD and JESUS, are getting it on FORUMS, where they find me.
That's kinda sad, as i wish your church could be this guide and light.
Find one that is, reader.
Dont waste your time in a "religious junk" every Sunday, situation.
God doesn't want you in that.... not ever. And He never led you there.
Find one that does not care about the "greek text"...or "water saves".. or obsesses on the "predestined elect" or "Mary"..... and instead LOVES THE BIBLE, and BELIEVES the BIBLE, and teaches you Paul's Epistles, and Paul's Doctrine, as that is a real "church".
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Let's not drive the act of someone "blocking" another, away from the context of the open discussion in this thread.
The issue that brought all this about, is where one stands in the "dichotomy" presented by the OP.
By the Grace of God through Jesus,
are we:
#1. saved by faith in Christ, without the requirement of any good works?
#2. saved by faith in Christ, with the requirement of doing good works?
#3. saved by faith in Christ, with the requirement of having Christ's good works?
In my understanding, neither #1 or #2 is the answer, but rather #3: we must have the Spirit of Christ and His Good works by His Spirit within us. Rom. 8:8-9
So then, if someone refuses to listen or hear (blocks) the correct answer, given with scriptural explanation, then in the face of the Truth, who is Jesus, that is their act of defense against that which offends them.
So then, if the truth is become an offense to some, I am NOT judged by the Lord's literal "Spirit of Truth", for stating the truth of my conviction of understanding, that He has given to me.
1 Cor. 2:15-16 is true for ALL "Born Again Christians", however not many others are "spiritual", and therefore are in need of being exercised thereby.
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
I strongly suggest that we all study and digest all of 1 Cor. ch. 2.
In His Love, and by His Spirit,
Earburner
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