SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

[Earburner]

Not interested in your opinions. You had your chance to say something true, and you decided to reject God's Word. Thanks.

And that is your opinion of me.

So then, what there is to know about 1 John 5:11-13 you have no answer.
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
BACK to Rom. 8:8-9.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

And if one is not OBEDIENT to walk in the good works the Lord has called us to... they won't be rewarded by being allowed to spend eternity with the Lord.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What makes us children of God is IF we answer the Father's call to abide in Christ having turned away from our old life of sin and walk with Him in newness of life

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

This is what baptism is supposed to be about... making a covenant with the Lord, a public declaration of faith, a commitment to put off the old man and put on the new man and to walk in newness of life

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are called to cooperate with the Lord, to be co-laboroers with Him. He made us in His Image, so we have free will... the Lord desires for us to willingly choose to turn away from our old life of sin and come abide In Christ and not turn away, ever!

1 Corinthians 3:9
We are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

It's God's work, His power, His ability... but WE have to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him in the Light.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Getting born again is the introduction and the starting point and if one truly believes and dies moments after getting born again, yes they would go to Heaven.

But few die immediately after getting born again so it remains to be seen... will WE to choose to accept His offer to be His children and turn from darkness to walk with Him abiding In Him until the end of our lives so that we might be saved???

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Endure to the end as in... DON'T fall away!

 

[GracePeace]

And that is your opinion of me.

So then, what there is to know about 1 John 5:11-13 you have no answer.
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
BACK to Rom. 8:8-9.

Actually already answered this in multiple ways.

I'm going to go ahead and block you because you are wasting my time pretending to converse when you're really just rejecting God's Word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yup, I'm sinning when I believe God, according to you.

Galatians 6
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

whatever my friend. Keep trying to earn your salvation

You can take these passage out of context all you want. It will not get you saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not interested in your opinions. You had your chance to say something true, and you decided to reject God's Word. Thanks.

How are people like this allowed to continue in a discussion chatroom?

 

[GracePeace]

whatever my friend. Keep trying to earn your salvation

You can take these passage out of context all you want. It will not get you saved.

If it doesn't mean what I say I think it means--eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by those who do not grow weary in doing good to all men--you're free to tell everyone what the true meaning is.

 

[GracePeace]

How are people like this allowed to continue in a discussion chatroom?

They gave us the ignore button because they knew people would arrive at points of strong disagreement--they literally made the forum for people like myself.

 

[Ritajanice]

How are people like this allowed to continue in a discussion chatroom?

They have as much right here as anyone else....they are seekers, just like you and I are.

 

[Earburner]

Actually already answered this in multiple ways.

I'm going to go ahead and block you because you are wasting my time pretending to converse when you're really just rejecting God's Word.

To block me would be a sin against a brother in Christ, who has not offended you in the least bit, but has shown to be supportive of all the scriptures that exhort us to maintain faith in Christ, walking/living in the power of God's Holy Spirit.

To God the Father, through faith in the Blood of Christ, we are made to be sin-LESS,
but we all KNOW that while living in these bodies of flesh and blood, none of us are sin-FREE. 1 John 1:5-10.
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Thank you for this discussion between us, and Thanks for sharing in His peace that passes all understanding.
In His Love,
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

They gave us the ignore button because they knew people would arrive at points of strong disagreement--they literally made the forum for people like myself.

Whoa! That is one high horse that you are on. It smacks of one of those sins called pride and boastful, aka self righteousness.

Though you now may not see or here the words that I write, others will be appearing in support of what I have said and shown.

 

[Ritajanice]

Whoa! That is one high horse that you are on. It smacks of one those sins called pride and boastful.
Though you now may not see or here the words that I write, others will be appearing in support of what I have said and shown.

I think we “ all” need to learn “ self control “....rather than react to his post....why not pass it by, are you with me?

I still react rather than act........does that make sense?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If it doesn't mean what I say I think it means--eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by those who do not grow weary in doing good to all men--you're free to tell everyone what the true meaning is.

Read John 3 and John 6. and 1 John 5 . Where does it say you have to work to get eternal life

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They have as much right here as anyone else....they are seekers, just like you and I are.

They are not seekers.

About the only thing they seek is to push their doctrine on everyone and judge whoever disagrees with them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Whoa! That is one high horse that you are on. It smacks of one those sins called pride and boastful.
Though you now may not see or here the words that I write, others will be appearing in support of what I have said and shown.

He thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong.

We wondered how long it would take you to find out.

 

[Taken]

SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

Don’t confuse WHO is WHO.

God is the Creator of ManKIND
God is the Maker of ManKIND
Grace IS an attribute of offering FAVOR toward something.
God Offers His GRACE, His FAVOR to ManKIND.

ManKIND…You WANT Gods Grace, Gods Favor toward YOU…?
* LEARN “WHY” God Offers His Grace toward ManKIND…
…NOT a mystery. God Loves His Creations!

* Then pay Attention to “HOW” God reveals WHAT a Person CAN DO to Receive Gods FAVOR!
…NOT a mystery. Learn ABOUT God, Hear, Read, ABOUT God, Observe His Works.
…Ponder, Wonder, Think….MAKE a DECISION; Either you LIKE or you DO NOT LIKE. NO PRETENSE…Stand for YOUR Decision And BE SURE of your OWN, “WHY” of your decision.
AND KNOW THIS:
…YOU, only YOU, are and will be Accountable for your own Decision.

…”IF” your decision is to “stand Against God”….move on in your own Direction, and don’t worry about what OTHERS Decide, Choose, Elect.

..”IF” your decision is to “stand With God”….the “HOW” to is Not a mystery.
Continue HEARING…
AND by Gods attribute of GRACE and FAVOR, AND Gods “gift” of “FAITH” shall be Given you IN Measures equal to:
“YOUR” effort to continue “HEARING”.

Gods Grace, Gods Favor….OFFERED.
ManKINDS Effort to Hear…EFFECTED
Gods Gift of Faith…DEBT PAID

By the GRACE of God…repeatedly, God makes OFFERS ManKIND.
“IF and When” ManKIND freely chooses / electes to TAKE Gods Offerings;
God incurs a DEBT,
and
God PAYS His DEBTS…
* With…Favors, Blessings, Gifts, Rewards, Covenanted Promises and Eternal Life WITH the Lord God Almighty.

Not a mystery…
A WORK of manKIND IS True Heartful Belief IN the Lord God. (John 6:29)

Not a mystery…
A SERVICE of manKIND IS a heartful CONFESSION to the Lord of that mans TRUE Heartful Belief. (Rom 12:1)

“IF” a man thereafter DOES NOTHING else…
BY Gods Grace Offering, that man HAS taken and Received, What God Offered. Gods FAVOR toward that man, to receive ETERNAL LIFE with God. PERIOD.

“IF” that same man DOES “more” works, deeds, service unto the GLORY of the Lord God … ie Glorifying God before other men…
“SO ALSO” shall God Pay those DEBTS, with blessings and gifts and rewards.

Men CONFUSE A work, A service, FOR Salvation AND work(S) and service(S) UNTO Other…blessing(S), gift(S), reward(S) FOR Glorifying God before other men.

They are Not the SAME things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Earburner]

“IF” a man thereafter DOES NOTHING else…
BY Gods Grace Offering, that man HAS taken and Received, What God Offered. Gods FAVOR toward that man, to receive ETERNAL LIFE with God. PERIOD.

I agree. You are absolutely correct.
The parable of "the laborers" in Mat. 20:1-16 reveals that the Gift of Eternal Life is EQUALLY and FREELY given to all who are in faith of Christ, and are born again of God's Holy Spirit, no matter what the level is of one's own amount of "good deeds" that are performed to all people.

Edit: However, if one were to compare that parable to the parable of "The talents", the perspective is based on an entirely different set of circumstances, whereby is reflective of those are saved, as opossed to those who are not.
Mat. 25:14-30.
The key verse to understand is [29] For unto every one that hath [Eternal Life] shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not [Eternal life] shall be taken away even that [life] which he hath.

1John 5:11-13

 

[Taken]

I agree. You are absolutely correct.
The parable of "the laborers" in Mat. 20:1-16 reveals that the Gift of Eternal Life is EQUALLY and FREELY given to all who are in faith of Christ, and are born again of God's Holy Spirit, no matter what the level is of one's own amount of "good deeds" to all people.
Edit: However, if one were to compare that parable to the parable of "The talents", the perspective is based on an entirely different set of circumstances, whereby is reflective of those are saved, as opossed to those who are not.
Mat. 25:14-30.
The key verse to understand is [29] For unto every one that hath [Eternal Life] shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not [Eternal life] shall be taken away even that [life] which he hath.

1John 5:11-13

YES!

ONCE Salvation IS received, IT IS PERMANENT.
It is the concept for the acronym OSAS.

A wide-and erroneous teaching by Men…IS
You can receive Salvation and then Lose it.

Utter fabrication. Absolutely FALSE. Salvation is an OFFERING….
TAKE it….you have it Forever.
REJECT it….you Lose Receiving it.

TAKE Gods Offering of SALVATION….
And thereafter you MUST do more works to keep your Salvation ….
Another erroneous teaching by Men!

TAKE Gods Offering of SALVATION….
And thereafter you CAN do more works TO: Glorify God and IF you do more works “THAT” Glorify God, you SHALL receive REWARDS

IF you receive Salvation and DO no works to Glorify God …
you will LOSE REWARDS you could have received…..BUT WILL NOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION

1 Cor 3:
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

ALL works a man DOES, (saved or not), which DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD…..
“SHALL BE BURNED” !

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

YES!

ONCE Salvation IS received, IT IS PERMANENT.
It is the concept for the acronym OSAS.

A wide-and erroneous teaching by Men…IS
You can receive Salvation and then Lose it.

Utter fabrication. Absolutely FALSE. Salvation is an OFFERING….
TAKE it….you have it Forever.
REJECT it….you Lose Receiving it.

TAKE Gods Offering of SALVATION….
And thereafter you MUST do more works to keep your Salvation ….
Another erroneous teaching by Men!

TAKE Gods Offering of SALVATION….
And thereafter you CAN do more works TO: Glorify God and IF you do more works “THAT” Glorify God, you SHALL receive REWARDS

IF you receive Salvation and DO no works to Glorify God …
you will LOSE REWARDS you could have received…..BUT WILL NOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION

1 Cor 3:
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

ALL works a man DOES, (saved or not), which DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD…..
“SHALL BE BURNED” !

Glory to God,
Taken

how can you lose what you could never earn?

 

[Taken]

how can you lose what you could never earn?

If I say to you I have bought and paid for a gift for you. The condition is you must come to me before you die to take it and I will give to you the gift I bought for you…..

And you DO….did you earn that gift?
And if you DO not….did you lose receiving a gift that was bought FOR You?

That is how it works with Gods Gift of Salvation…
It is not a gift that is earned, it is a gift offered for you to Take.

 

[Earburner]

As with the people questioning Jesus in His day, so also are there those today, asking the same question, but are "fit to be tied" in blindness  by His answer:
John 6
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we DO, that we might WORK the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS the WORK of God, that ye  BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent.