Creators, you put an s on Creator you believe in multiple gods then. Sir you are either very confused or new to the English language
SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY
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The seemingly strange thing is that I simply believe that the Creators own everything and are sovereign over all that They have made. I cannot prove it by presenting you with a copy of the title deed of ownership of planet earth for instance. I just accept this truth by faith. Faith that They chose to give me over 30 years ago.
You dont know what you're talking about.
God sovereigntly decreed that mankind choose Him or the world,
Joshua 24:15,
- and if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE Whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood or the gods of the amorites in whose land ye dwell but as for me and my house WE WILL SERVE THE LORD
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Yahweh is a polythest, He knows He has a Son that is a God.
And probably someone told Him about the God Holy Spirit.
It is one of reasons that Christianity was such a familiar belief to the Gentiles and the Jews did not like it.
Have trouble counting to three….no problem let me help ya.
1. God the Father name Yahweh He begot a Son….Do you know what begot means?
2. God the Son name Yeshua says the Father is greater than He.
3. God the Holy Spirit is a full fledged God….
1 + 1 +1 = 3
What reality do you live in that 1 + 1 +1 = 1
Isn't it great that God doesn't need to justify His actions to anyone.
If He opens some people's eye to see Him, others He leaves blind, while He actually blinds the eyes of others then that's His prerogative.
God is not a mathematical equation.
God created the natural laws like physics.
Therefore God is not constatrained by the natural laws that He created.
You have a naturalistic view of God.
In the natural world,
Father+ Son+Holy Spirit = 3.
God is not bound by our laws,
Father+Son+ Spirit =1 God.
I'm not joining the religion you founded Grailhunter.
I'm staying in christianity.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Who said He is bound by our laws.
But we cannot make up God in our mind and tell Him what He is.
God defined the terms...we did not. Father and Son.....and the Son can sit on the right hand of the Father. He told us that He begot a Son....We said He was pleased with Him, was He pleased with Himself?......The Son on earth testified of the Father in Heaven....He is greater than I, was Yeshua saying He greater than Himself.
The Father gave authority to the Son.....Did He give authority to Himself? The Father knew when the end would come and the Son did not.......Did one side of His head know it and the other did not? 50 times the Son refers to Yahweh as My Father ......Should He have said MY Self........In the end when He ascended should He have said, I ascend to Myself.
A lot of the story of the one God Trinity sounds like a bag full of confusion or maybe like witchcraft. The Trinity is not about non-sense.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I let the scriptures tell me about God and the Godhead. You are a victim of false beliefs. My ministry stands against false beliefs. The scriptures are full of the description of the Godhead. Your beliefs are superimposed on the scriptures and are based on a word that is not in the scriptures…..conjured up by the Catholics to settle argument. Christ explained the oneness concept but most do not pay attention.
Odds are the people that came up with this false belief and deceived many are already in Hell.
Am firsthand eyewitness testimony, inwardly and outwardly how i came to salvation, not of 'my 'self' nor 'my works', but 'alone the gift of GOD'.
i did not go for the word of GOD, since i know it's a Christian God and is about Jesus, since also am a pagan and have my gods to reckon with.
No Christian could preach to me, would defensively reply, "Pray to your GOD and i pray to my god."
The word of GOD, the Holy Bible, apparently came to me, and when i read in the beginning, the message did not make any sense to me. Next about the rest, i did testify in my previous posts, read about it, thanks.
To conclude, even when i heard the word of GOD, especially the Gospel message, 'faith did not come'. But only until when HE made sense of them all and comprehend. Apparently by the gift bestowed upon me, 'by grace and through faith am saved'.
By the gift of grace, 'to make sense and comprehend the word of GOD in the Holy Bible'. And by the gift of faith, 'helped to have made sense of it all and believe the word of GOD is truth, and a doer, am saved'.
For my testimony comes in line with Ephesians 2:8 and tangible as the truth testament. Also, how come even Saul the persecutor of the church, apparently heard the word of GOD in Israel and faith didmnot come?? As Jesus ministered for three and a half yrears to the Apostles and church in continuouation?? And why suddenly later, a thorough 360 faith and conversion, never turning back, and until death upon persecution??
'Who could understand the Wisdom and Power of GOD?'
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There was only one God in the Old Testament, how many times did He say that He was the only God and there was no one like Him. And only His name appears in the OT. But then He begot a Son in the NT.
Now I know where you are going with this.....if you can find Yeshua's name in the OT as a God or Yahweh and Yeshua having a conversation by name in the OT like in the NT, then we can talk about it. Other than that the context of Yeshua being in the OT is not defined. ....Pretty much like the scripture that says you have to hate your father and mother to be a disciple of His.....Not defined well enough to start hating your father and mother and not enough to form a religious belief around it. Considering that both contradicts other scriptures. All you got to do is find a scripture in the OT that says Yeshua by name created the world or the Son of God created the world. If not I am going with Yahweh is the Creater God.
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HE did not begot a Son in the NT, but rather the Son pre-existed, the Lord and Word from Heaven became flesh, Jesus of Nazareth.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son.....
Does that sound familiar?
'Now' only begotten or 'pre-existed' only begotten, the scripture do not go in your favor.
The Word (preexisted) became flesh (now), still the Son. (John 1:14)
The first man Adam was made a livng soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Cor 15:45)
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from Heavem. (1 Cor 15:47)
No man hath seen GOD at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the FATHER, He hath declared HIM. (John 1:18)
Now, does that sound so famaliar?
If i were to make known my only son begotten with my wife to others, will i not introduce him also as 'my only begotten son'??
But GOD have no wife since there's no marriage in Heaven, therefore why HE introduced HIS Son also as 'HIS only begotten Son'??
One who is begotten only by GOD, therefore what about the angels in Heaven begotten by who??
Colossians 1:
15. Who is the image of the invisible GOD, the firstborn of every creature/creation:
We perceive all creature/creation in Heaven and on earth are created, and by someone. Therefore why the Son is referred among them all creature/creation as the, 'firstborn', and to the FATHER. as 'HIS only begotten''?? (Col 1:15)
Apparently, the Son is created first before all creature/creation in Heaven or on eatrh, under and in the sea, and 'pre-existed'. And the Son alone is created in the beginning by the FATHER GOD, and legit HE declares as, 'HIS only begotten Son'. (John 1:1)
Later on, GOD the FATHER by the Son created all other creature/creation in Heaven and on earth. Visible or invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by the Son, and for the Son. And the Son is before all things, and by Him all things consist. (Col 1:16&17)
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Interesting scriptures.....I will bite....Tell me what you think these two scriptures mean?
Do you think Adam is our Savior? Or that Adam is Yahweh’s Son. The Son of God?
At least Adam is in the OT. But the proof is in the pudding, you still have to show a God named Yeshua in the OT.
And do you think Yeshua is "a man" or a God?
The word Lord makes sense the Apostles would refer to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord.
John is your best bet for the preexisting Christ. It says He is there but you still have to find Him there.
On the other hand it is one of the reason some see a Gnostic flavor in the Gospel of John. The Gnostics did not like Yahweh and believed Yeshua was the Creator God, the only true God. They also had Greek connections and the Word….the Logos was a Greek belief form the 6th century BC.
Still all the effort but Yeshua is a no show in the OT scriptures....Which was easy for the Gnostics because they did not recognize the Old Testament as scriptures.
Of course the Jews believed in one God and the prophets are not making a distinction between Yahweh and His Son. And of course if the Son of God was going to be the Messiah / Savior it would have filled the pages of the prophetic books….shouting from the mountain tops and dancing in the streets. But not there….It was one the reasons that the Jews rejected Christ because they believed the Messiah would be a human warlord king that would take on their oppressors.
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Tell me the reason why i posted these two scripture?
Because GOD the FATHER have not introduce 'The Word', and not Yeshua, yet in the Old Testament. Nevertheless, 'The Word' was present in the Old Testament, and interacted with the fathers and prophets of Israel.
Apparently GOD's audible voice can only be heard from the sky, and upon hearing the Israelites in fear and trembling would drop to ground as dead.
They even complained to Moses that GOD need not speak, but only Moses speak to them.
Hebrews 1:
1. GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manner spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by HIS Son, whom HE hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also HE made the worlds;
Not about what i think, but the scripture is clear, that in the beginning, 'The Word' is Lord and God the Son in Heaven. Who is subjected to GOD the FATHER, where in these last days became man and named, Yeshua/Jesus.
No, but rather to the Apostles and the FATHER GOD in Heaven, Yeshua is 'Lord and God'.
Can be found but can you comprehend the find?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
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