Salvation : Foundation

[Behold]

Reader,

1.) When Paul says......How can we who are dead to sin, live any longer in it.......He is explaining that the old man of sin is dead.

So, to live there, free from sin consciousness, is to have "worked our your salvation".
And how to do this.... is against our nature, against our flesh, and against our logic.

The Key is to understand that Christianity is All Spiritual, and so, when the Believer is trying to DO That...then they find this..

= "that which i would do i can't and that which i hate, i do".

So, what is the issue?
They are trying to self impose self righteousness upon God's Grace, ..... and that causes this...

= "Apart from me, you can do nothing".

What Christians are never taught is that when you work at Salvaiton, then God rests, and when you rest in God's Grace, ..then God works.
In other words......stop trying to Do Christianity, and instead allow God to do this...

= "I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me"

"Christ always gives me the Victory".

See that one?
That person is abiding In Christ, according to utter submission to the Spirit of God who then empowers them to live a perfect walk of faith. A perfected Discipleship.
They are become "the fullness of the stature of Christ".....on Earth, and that is what we are all supposed to become down here.

Most believers are exactly the opposite...they have shut off the power of God's Grace, and they are trying to self effort it.... as their carnal idea of walking in the Spirit., and that is a fail., as that is wrong faith.
That is literally taking the helmet of Salvation, off.
Wrong faith produces nothing Spiritual, and everything is carnal.

When Jesus says "apart from me you can do nothing"....>He is explaining that : "you are trying to do it, and only i can do it through you".

Salvation is Me doing it for you........not you trying to do it in my place.

So, to let Jesus live His Holy life through us....is.. "I die daily'"......that is = im resting in God's Grace, so that God's power rests on me that produces Godliness.



2.).) The Law came by Moses, .....God's Grace and Spiritual Truth didnt.

The Law and the 10 commandments are a "ministry of death" to everyone who tries to keep them as their faith.
"'Christ has redeemed us from the Curse of the Law"..
The curse of the law is that it drives you into carnal behavior the more you try to keep it, and you can't stop it from happening........so, Jesus has to remove it.....as "Christ is the end of the Law for Righteousness".

All Christians have a born again spirit that includes a renewed inner moral compass, because the Holy Spirit has essentially taken control of your conscience, and this remains unless you quench the Holy Spirit.
So, He shows us the moral avenue and we are to follow it and not get off track.
The Holy Spirit is not a voice in your head telling you to "turn right, and dont forget to check your mirrors".
The Holy Spirit leads you by intuition.....its that inner knowing......that you have that often gives you the answer, before all the confusion comes in, that is you trying to figure out the solution.
The Holy Spirit will always agree with the word of God, "rightly divided".......not just read like a dictionary.


3.) Christians are not sinners.

Sinners are unbelievers who need to get Saved.
Christians are "a new Creation" a "Saint".......having been "made righteous"... and we exist in the KOG.
Most Christians BLINDLY see themselves as a body, foolishly trying to be good enough for God to keep.
God sees the Believer as a "New Creation"... Spiritually Joined to Him eternally , having become "the righteousness of God, in Christ"


4.) A person who is thinking about sin, worrying about it.... has not understood what Jesus has accomplished for them on The Cross.

They read....

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.......ETERNAL......sacrifice for sin"...and they can't understand what the word Etenal means, in this verse.

Reader, Jesus is your ETERNAL Sacrifice for all your sin.

A.) ITs GONE FOREVER..... = "ETERNAL Sacrifice".

Read these 3 Verses and BELIEVE them as they are talking to you if you are born again.

Romans 4:8

2 Corin 5:19

John 3:17

 

[PS95]

Behold, Rather than keep making new threads on the same topic it would be so nice if you would deal with the ones you already made.
Keep it simpler you know? You have us on too many thread of the same topic!
The problem is simple-
Except all you do is accuse others of trying to earn our own salvation!??
We believe in obeying the Spirit of God in us whom we have received by grace- and since we were gifted with power that makes sin no longer have dominion over us - as it once did- we put to death the sins of the flesh. Why is that so awful to you? THAt is the NT teaching and I can not deny it since that is the power of God in me.
A person who is NOT cooperating with the Spirit is either very new in the faith- or never saved- or is rebelling against the Spirit by grieving the Spirit.
Perhaps they were taught by someone who holds your theology that BEHAVIOR after salvation does not matter! I reject that and you should too, since Paul did.

 

[Debp]

All Christians have a born again spirit that includes a renewed inner moral compass, because the Holy Spirit has essentially taken control of your conscience, and this remains unless you quench the Holy Spirit.
So, He shows us the moral avenue and we are to follow it and not get off track.
The Holy Spirit is not a voice in your head telling you to "turn right, and dont forget to check your mirrors".
The Holy Spirit leads you by intuition.....its that inner knowing......that you have that often gives you the answer, before all the confusion comes in, that is you trying to figure out the solution.
The Holy Spirit will always agree with the word of God, "rightly divided".......not just read like a dictionary.

Yes, it's called "walking in the Spirit." I do understand what you say. You are a teacher so approach your topics in that way. We all have different spiritual gifts.

 

[Debp]

We believe in obeying the Spirit of God in us whom we have received by grace- and since we were gifted with power that makes sin no longer have dominion over us - as it once did- we put to death the sins of the flesh.

Again, it's called "walking in the Spirit". Only worded differently from @Behold

 

[PS95]

Again, it's called "walking in the Spirit". Only worded differently from @Behold

Hi deb. I agree there is a word disconnect sometimes, and as I continually say to behold I believe that she understands sanctification but she just uses the word, discipleship. Although she does not see it a necessary part of salvation and I do.
I believe sanctification distinguishes us from the unsaved, but Behold holds to no change in behavior after initial salvation is needed. I can not agree with that- I have given many passages ( of Paul since she adheres only to Him) which say that a "saint" who is living in sins will not see the Kingdom of God. - Behold does not agree with Paul.

 

[Debp]

Hi deb. I agree there is a word disconnect sometimes, and as I continually say to behold I believe that she understands sanctification but she just uses the word, discipleship. Although she does not see it a necessary part of salvation and I do.
I believe sanctification distinguishes us from the unsaved, but Behold holds to no change in behavior after initial salvation is needed. I can not agree with that- I have given many passages ( of Paul since she adheres only to Him) which say that a "saint" who is living in sins will not see the Kingdom of God. - Behold does not agree with Paul.

Thanks for giving more clarification.

Btw, @Behold is a man. I've known him for years from a different forum.

 

[Behold]

1.) Paul teaches doctrine ...= regarding the : "body of sin".

So what is that?

That is your """old man of sin::".....its your : "flesh". Its your "unholy sensual and carnal desires".

Paul teaches that this "body of Sin" is destroyed if you are born again...., = which ""frees you from serving sin"

How does that work?

2.) Paul teaches that : "(He-She) that are DEAD, is freed from Sin".

So, what part of you is "DEAD", if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious and lost ???

A.) This part.. = ""our old man of sin, is crucifed with Christ"".....therefore : '"reckon Him DEAD""........Paul teaches.

"but behold..... i have sinful thoughts, and desires".....
And yes......that is : "sin consciousness".

So, how do you get rid of it, how do you put that down and keep it underfoot..... so that you are FREE from the residual effect of being a former lifetime sin loving sinner, who is now an Eternal Saint = "of the Household of God".

AA.) ""You work out your Salvation.""

-continued..

 

[Behold]

How do you do that?

How do you "work out your Salvation".

You have to perfectly learn that you are become a "new Creation in Christ".....as "the righteousnes of God.... in Christ".
See that?
That is not ""the old man of sin"".....is it? That is "old things have passed away (dead)... and all things are become NEW"".

3.) So, Paul says..."""how can we serve sin (how can we want to pursue carnality), if we are DEAD to sin"""?

AAA.) Its because you have not '""worked out your Salvation."""

How do you work it out?.... How do you work out the Eternal Salvation, that is "the Gift of Salvation" = now that you posess it forever if you are born again???????

Reader,
Didn't you have to learn how to drive your first Car?
So, also, you have to learn how to exist in GAINED revelation knowledge, as : "working out your Salvation".

AAAA.) By gaining the knowledge of who you have eternally become "in Christ"... = that is God's perspective of you.

Reader, "what is the mind of Christ"?

AAAAA) Its God's perspective, and you have to get it as YOUR Real Faith and Theology, and keep it.

Where is this found?

= Paul's Doctrine.

 

[Behold]

Reader,

When a Christian is flailing and falling and struggling within their Christianity, for years and years..... its simply because of a lack of understanding that denies God's Grace its authority to empower you to live Holy.

Notice.: "My people are destroyed from/by a lack of KNOWLEDGE". (not by a lack of self effort).

And that is why a Christian is lost in a cult... and confused about "staying saved", and can't even begin to explain How the Blood of Jesus..
= Keeps them Saved,
- much less any other important NT Doctrine that you have to KNOW, or you will never get past.......... Hebrews 6:1.

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See, the struggle to live Holy, is happening to you........because you are trying to do it.
And that is impossible.

Saint.....= Christianity is God created and God empowered, and you can't DO THAT for yourself.
You have to learn to EXIST THERE.. to literally stop trying to do that for yourself, and start existing there.
You must REST in God's Grace, or you will endlessly struggle with your own Self Righteousness that will keep you "sin conscious".

5.) The Solution is to simply understand that you are eternally become a : "new Creation", and ""all things have passed away" ("your old man of sin") and now you are what God says you are. = You are "complete IN CHRIST">.
Or as a great preacher explained.... "You START...finished"...and now you just faith-walk in that Eternal Spiritual Reality, everyday.

Are you born again? The you are this... always.

A "new Creation".
A "Heir of God"..
A "Joint heir with Jesus"..
A "Saint".
You exist as "one with God"......"made righteous" = forever...

A.) "AS Jesus IS.....so are the born again .. in THIS WORLD".

See that?
That is the MIND you have to put on......now and always.

This....>"I AM the rightousness of God, in Christ".

You have to put on that "mind".

See, that knowledge = is the knowledge of God....Its what God knows......and you have to put that on...as YOUR ONLY FAITH...which is the"" ..
Helmet of Salvation""""
And you have to keep it on, everyday, because the world, your flesh, and the devil, will try to remove your Helmet.....daily.
You have to KEEP IT ON, or they will take it from you.

6.) When you have this as your daily "walk of faith" = then you have worked out your Salvation, and Paul says you are this one..>"as many as be perfect".

Saint...... Christianity is ALL SPIRITUAL.
So, you have to get your MIND up THERE.. where God's power and Christ's empowering you as an overcomer.... has become YOUR daily Discipleship, your daily walk of Real FAITH.

Listen..
You are Who God says you have become........and you have to BELIEVE this, and only identify yourself as He identifies you, or you are "fallen from Grace".
See, if you dont, then you will fail as a disciple. You will be confused about staying saved. You will be easily led from one belief to another to another. Your Prayers will not be faith filled. Your Life will not literally reflect who you have become "in Christ" as a NEW CREATION.

 

[Behold]

Let me show you a simple way to understand God's """Gift of Salvation"""", that Is Jesus's blood and death that is GIFTED to you, as "the Gift of Salvaiton", that is the New Covenant, that is the Eternal Blood Atonement.

Now......some of you, went to College on a FULL SCHOLARSHIP, or know someone who did.

A Scholarship, that is a FULL Scholarship......... pays for your College Education.

So, here is the reality...... Its because you HAVE RECEIVED the FULL Scholarship.......that you get to go and LEARN in a College for Free.

Now,

Salvation.......Is Jesus's finished work on The Cross, whereby He has lived a sinless life, kept all the Law and 10 Commandments, and then dies as a Sacrifice to God as God's Salvation offered FREELY for YOU....and ME.......so that our sin can be eternally forgiven, = .....SALVATION that we can receive from God, for free, = what Jesus has completed..... Or as He told us from The Cross..."IT, (Salvation)... is Finished-Accomplished".

See that?

Salvation is completed.... Jesus on The Cross is God's completed Salvation... as proven by the Resurrection.....and its given as a eternal Gift from God, to anyone and everyone who BELIEVES......(Trusts in Christ).......our "Faith is counted by God.. as (Christ's) Righteousness"... given to us for Free.

So, in the same way that a Scholarship is a full payment....so we find that Jesus's Cross, where He sacrificed Himself on our behalf to God, is the FULL Payment for our Salvation the we have received from God... (if you are born again.)

Now, if you have that College Scholarship, then its alreadys YOURS.....and now you go and learn and learn and learn.

And so it is with God's "Gift of Salvation"........Now that you have received it as "the Gift of Salvation">........you are to learn how to exist within it......and that is your discipleship.

And when you have learned ....... you have "worked out your Salvation"......and until you do that, you are a baby Christian who has a lot to learn.

And once your have LEARNED the revelation knowledge that is related to understanding your Salvation perfectly, (that you have been given) .....then Paul said this about you....

"As many as be PERFECT".......

See that? That is not behavior.........that is Spiritual and Theological KNOWLEGE regarding Who you have become....as a "new Creation" in CHRIST.,. Its the revelation of who you have become "in Christ"......as "one with God"......and how to use this revelation knowledge by existing in it always as REAL FAITH.
When you get there........you have "put on the Helmet of Salvation", because you have "worked it out".

Some, put it on the Day they received Christ, because they understood fully that their Salvation is not what they do...but what Has been Given to them as "The Gift of Salvation".....and for some, it can take 50 yrs for them to understand God's Gift...and then they will finally stop trying to keep themselves saved, as they have now finally "gotten the revelation" of "The GIFT of Salvation".
Some are saved 60 yrs, and die, and never have they "worked out their salvation".
They died in the baby crib, a baby christian, who was was saved 60 yrs, and never understood The Cross of Christ as "God's GIFT of Salvation".
They died and went to Heaven, still trying to earn their way there.......when in fact they were "seated in heavenly places in Christ" the instant they were saved 60 yrs ago.

Now, how do you know you are in the baby chair training chair, and have a lot to learn about your Salvation?

The #1 Proof that you are still in the baby christian stage.. = Hebrews 6:1....is that you will BELIEVE that you can "lose your Salvation".

 

[Christian Soldier]

1.) Paul teaches doctrine ...= regarding the : "body of sin".

So what is that?

That is your """old man of sin::".....its your : "flesh". Its your "unholy sensual and carnal desires".

Paul teaches that this "body of Sin" is destroyed if you are born again...., = which ""frees you from serving sin"

How does that work?

2.) Paul teaches that : "(He-She) that are DEAD, is freed from Sin".

So, what part of you is "DEAD", if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious and lost ???

A.) This part.. = ""our old man of sin, is crucifed with Christ"".....therefore : '"reckon Him DEAD""........Paul teaches.

"but behold..... i have sinful thoughts, and desires".....
And yes......that is : "sin consciousness".

So, how do you get rid of it, how do you put that down and keep it underfoot..... so that you are FREE from the residual effect of being a former lifetime sin loving sinner, who is now an Eternal Saint = "of the Household of God".

AA.) ""You work out your Salvation.""

-continued..

Every single born again Christian, continues to sin every single day for the rest of their lives.

No Christian can ever stop sinning in this life, only a liar would deny this undeniable fact.

Born again Christians still commit murder, adultery and all kinds of other sin. Being born again, doesn't mean the old man is dead in you. No the old man is far from dead, he will torment you and overcome you and cause you to do what you never thought you would do again.

The Lord Jesus Christ has paid for all of my past sins, He has paid for all of my present sins and He has paid for all of my future sins and not just for my sins but for the sins of every one of Gods Elect.

As a born again Christian, I try to resist the temptation to sin, but my old nature still overcomes me and I fall into sin everyday. But thank God, Jesus has paid for my sin so I live without any guilt or fear of judgement or punishment.

The apostle Paul summed it up by admitting that he can't stop doing evil. -

Romans 7:19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

 

[Behold]

Every single born again Christian, continues to sin every single day for the rest of their lives.

Your post explains that you are living in a broken faith, a false understanding of "Christianity".

See, @Christian Soldier .. your broken Christianity......is this,,,,,<>....."sin, confess.......repeat".

That's not real Christianity, at all.

Now.....Paul teaches that "Christ always gives me the Victory" over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil.

This is obvioulsy not your Testamony......as yours explains that your "christianity" is a failure. @Christian Soldier
However, If you learn how to exist in right faith, then your sin consciousness wont be a problem for you anymore.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Your post explains that you are living in a broken faith, a false understanding of "Christianity".

See, @Christian Soldier .. your broken Christianity......is this,,,,,<>....."sin, confess.......repeat".

That's not real Christianity, at all.

Now.....Paul teaches that "Christ always gives me the Victory" over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil.

This is obvioulsy not your Testamony......as yours explains that your "christianity" is a failure. @Christian Soldier
However, If you learn how to exist in right faith, then your sin consciousness wont be a problem for you anymore.

Sinning, then confessing and repeating it daily is not broken Christianity. It's true Christianity, only a liar would deny that fact. Confession of sin and repentance, is not a one time deal for the Born again Christian. It's a way of life for the true Christian, Gods Word confirm that those like you have no truth in them. So you are a liar.

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." This verse perfectly describes you, you have deceived yourself. I hope God opens your eyes, before it's too late and you hear the words, "depart from Me into the everlasting fire, for I never knew you".

Now Paul never taught that "Christ always gives you the Victory" over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil.
Paul actually taught that sin still overwhelms you, just as it overwhelms true believers as well.

Paul actually taught that true believers cannot stop sinning because the temptation is to powerful to resist. But he also taught that Christ has paid for the past, present and future sins of Gods elect. So we know God forgives our past present and future sins, and we don't need to worry about losing our salvation.

You interpretation of the gospel, comes from the pits of hell. It's the doctrine of Demons, because Gods Word exposes your false gospel, in 1 John 1:8

The Lord Jesus Christ, did not fail to atone for all of my past, present and future sins. He purchased redemption for me, so I don't need to work my way to righteousness as you do. Christ completed the work of salvation for me 2000 years ago, but you have to keep working for yours, everyday for the rest of your life, only to find that you have laboured in vein, since your best works are as filthy rags in Gods sight.

You obviously don't know the truth yet, but I still share it with you in the hope that it would convict you and cause you to repent and place your trust in Christ, instead of your works.

 

[Behold]

Sinning, then confessing and repeating it daily is not broken Christianity. It's true Christianity,

That is YOUR idea of Christianity.

However that is not Paul's Theology.

Paul's theology is that "Christ always gives us the VICTORY".......over sin, the flesh, the world, and the devil".

But you have to learn how to exit there, in right Faith.....and you have not, even begun.

So, Your admitted failed discipleship is ......."sin more.. confess again.. and repeat it for life".

That is not Christianity......That is the heretical teaching that comes from someone who read a verse in Romans 7, and never read the rest of Paul's Teaching.
This particular Romans 7 heresy, is one of the devil's finest deceptions, as it causes the believer to remain in Hebrews 6:1 "diaper christian" behavior, and Paul says to get out of that, and grow up in your understanding.
You haven't, as you prefer to "sin, confess, and repeat"... as your preference, as you've stated @Christian Soldier .

 

[Christian Soldier]

That is YOUR idea of Christianity.

However that is not Paul's Theology.

Paul's theology is that "Christ always gives us the VICTORY".......over sin, the flesh, the world, and the devil".

But you have to learn how to exit there, in right Faith.....and you have not, even begun.

So, Your admitted failed discipleship is ......."sin more.. confess again.. and repeat it for life".

That is not Christianity......That is the heretical teaching that comes from someone who read a verse in Romans 7, and never read the rest of Paul's Teaching.
This particular Romans 7 heresy, is one of the devil's finest deceptions, as it causes the believer to remain in Hebrews 6:1 "diaper christian" behavior, and Paul says to get out of that, and grow up in your understanding.
You haven't, as you prefer to "sin, confess, and repeat"... as your preference, as you've stated @Christian Soldier .

I don't prefer to "sin, confess, and repent", but that what God commands His people to do. So it has nothing to do with my preference and everything to do with Gods will for His people.

That was Pauls Theology as well, he admitted that the power of temptation was greater that his will not to sin. You hate that truth because there is no truth in you. I have already proven that to you by showing you what Gods Word says about the matter.

I have already proven that every single born again Christian, continues to sin every single day of their lives for the rest of their lives. And I have proven that Jesus has already paid for all the past, present and future sins of Gods chosen people. You obviously hate this truth, and I can only assume you hate it because you hate the truth. Jesus said "I am the truth", so you actually hate Jesus.

 

[Behold]

I don't prefer to "sin, confess, and repent", but that what God commands His people to do.

You just wrote that "God commands".......His people to "sin".

Are you really that utterly stupid to believe that God sent Jesus to The Cross to DIE = to forgive all our sin, and deliver us from sin, because God wants us to keep on sinning....
Apparently you do, as you just stated it.

I think that your post is among the most theologically Ignorant posts ive ever read on a "christian" forum., sent from someone who claims to be a "chrisitan". @Christian Soldier .
I wonder what cult birthed you, fella., as even the JWs and Mormons and the Christian Scientist's (cults) dont teach that God "commands his people to sin".

Now the DEVIL would teach that "God commands his people to sin".. as the Satanic Bible has HIS one command in it.

= "Do as tho wilt... shall be the whole of the law"..

 

[Christian Soldier]

You just wrote that "God commands".......His people to "sin".

Are you really that utterly stupid to believe that God sent Jesus to The Cross to DIE = to forgive all our sin, and deliver us from sin, because God wants us to keep on sinning....
Apparently you do, as you just stated it.

I think that your post is among the most theologically Ignorant posts ive ever read on a "christian" forum., sent from someone who claims to be a "chrisitan". @Christian Soldier .
I wonder what cult birthed you, fella., as even the JWs and Mormons and the Christian Scientist's (cults) dont teach that God "commands his people to sin".

Now the DEVIL would teach that "God commands his people to sin".. as the Satanic Bible has HIS one command in it.

= "Do as tho wilt... shall be the whole of the law"..

The problem is, you can't receive the truth because you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit and there is no truth in you. There are only two kinds of people, the children of God and the Devils children. You can know them by their works, you hate God and His Word and His people, so it's clear that you are a child of the Devil.

You reject everything God said and you twist it to conform to your Satanic doctrine of Demons.

I quote Gods Word to you and you call it stupid, so I can assure you that God is not stupid but you are. God is not mocked, when you heap coals of fire on your head, you are the one who will suffer for your evil deeds.

Where does the Bible say that we must stop sinning????? Answer NOWHWRE!!!! you just made that stupi8ud trash up yourself. God promised to cast those who add lies to His Word, into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity and you think you can fool God, well think again buddy!!!

 

[Muna]

Where does the Bible say that we must stop sinning?????

Jesus telling a man sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Hebrews telling us about wilfully sinning which follows a certain fearful looking for of judgment

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Paul telling them not to sin

1 Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Peter on those who cannot cease from sin

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children

 

[Christian Soldier]

Jesus telling a man sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Hebrews telling us about wilfully sinning which follows a certain fearful looking for of judgment

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Paul telling them not to sin

1 Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Peter on those who cannot cease from sin

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children

Born again Christians are not sinners, but we sin everyday. A sinner wilfully sins, while a Born again Christian, sins as a result of being overcome by temptation. I don't plan to sin, but I sin because I'm still in the body of death. But thank God, He is faithful to forgive me every time I repent.

A sinner, has surrendered to his lust and offers no resistance to temptation and he actually makes plans and goes to a lot of trouble to feed his lust. So there's a big difference between me, an "elect Saint of God" and the carnal unregenerate man. I fall into sin like falling into a trap, while God hands the reprobate over to serve sin and Satan.

So, when Jesus tells someone to sin no more. He is saying you are no longer a slave to sin, now you go and battle against temptation. He didn't say, you have now attained sinless perfection, so don't worry about sin anymore. No, He was saying, don't give yourself over to sin, resist temptation. That doesn't mean we will always overcome temptation.

2 Peter 2:14 is not speaking about Born again Christians, he's describing unbelievers, since none of those things are true of those of us who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[PS95]

Born again Christians are not sinners, but we sin everyday. A sinner wilfully sins, while a Born again Christian, sins as a result of being overcome by temptation. I don't plan to sin, but I sin because I'm still in the body of death. But thank God, He is faithful to forgive me every time I repent.

A sinner, has surrendered to his lust and offers no resistance to temptation and he actually makes plans and goes to a lot of trouble to feed his lust. So there's a big difference between me, an "elect Saint of God" and the carnal unregenerate man. I fall into sin like falling into a trap, while God hands the reprobate over to serve sin and Satan.

So, when Jesus tells someone to sin no more. He is saying you are no longer a slave to sin, now you go and battle against temptation. He didn't say, you have now attained sinless perfection, so don't worry about sin anymore. No, He was saying, don't give yourself over to sin, resist temptation. That doesn't mean we will always overcome temptation.

2 Peter 2:14 is not speaking about Born again Christians, he's describing unbelievers, since none of those things are true of those of us who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

I think Truly saw your post as opposite of how you meant it. It was confusing to me as well at first.

I agree with most of that. I do not think that we are destined to have to sin everyday though. I think it is a walk and over time as we learn to walk in the Spirit more and more we sin less and less. When I walk in the Spirit I don't sin. God does keep me. But if I drift away and find myself with my eyes off of Christ I begin to walk in the flesh- it's a sin waiting to happen. Usually quite fast. For most sinful behavior my desire for it is gone but It may be just a mean thought or a harsh word to someone. Something unloving..
BUT the HS convicts me immediately and it is my reminder that I was heading towards the get stuck in the thicket..
So my eyes go back onto Christ and I confess it (which is agreeing with God) and I know that Jesus' blood washes my feet-
In that moment of grace I offer praises of thanksgiving and have joy and peace.. hence I walk in the Spirit again. I appreciate these reminders when I mess up- It is as if sin causes the grace. Well, yes it does, But no one likes sinning after being made a child of God.

But Behold comes from a very different place- saying that we can not sin, should not repent of sin, and that behavior has no bearing on the relationship between us and God.
I do not agree with that and it is not scriptural--. Even Paul clearly did not teach such a thing. It also is not the way the spirit leads me.

I thought maybe Behold was confusing thinking that we think that we can earn our salvation by not sinning instead of by grace and then being given the power of the Spirit who gives us dominion over sins- we are no longer slaves- the desire is removed and the by the Spirit
desire to sin is removed and we no longer want to sin.
But no- he is saying that behavior after salvation is irrelevant to salvation- when I say no, we are changed inside so of course our behavior is also changed. It is evidence of a new heart. This is all of God, not us.
Behold sounds like a televangelist to ,me sometimes and we have too many of them. I want him to be able to see what we are saying. I hope maybe in time it will come together for him.
There are so many verses to support what we are saying but I don't get a response. I just keep posting them in hope.

Eph 5:3-5
But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. / Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. / For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. / Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Ro 6:12-13

Ro 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Col 3:5 Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. / When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. ...

Col 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; / to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. --Colossians 3:5

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. / Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh. Ro 13

Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Tim 2:22

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro 6:6

Gal 5
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. / For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.

1 Cor 9:27
No, I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

2 Cor 7:1
Therefore, beloved, since we have these promises, let us cleanse ourselves from everything that defiles body and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 Thes 4:3
For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; / each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, / not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God; ...

Heb 12:4
Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.

James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.


Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Col 3:9-10
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, / and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.


For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
1 Thes 4:2-8

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, / nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. --1 Cor 6