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I trust in Christ more than you do.
I trust what HE taught:
Here is what Jesus taught:
That a person could STOP abiding in Him:
John 15:5-6
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
IF you REMAIN in Me.
IF
What does IF mean?
Let's stick to these verses instead of jumping all over and posting paragraphs full of YOUR opinions.
When Jesus says IF YOU REMAIN IN ME.....
He is setting a CONDITION.
We could either remain in Him
or NOT.
IF you DO NOT REMAIN in Me....
Really simple.
Let's hear your rendering of JESUS' words.
Jesus was very clear in what HE taught.
He wanted to be sure that all His disciples understood Him.
Let's see some scripture.
YOUR opinion does not interest anyone on this thread that believes the TRUTH that JESUS taught.
Very good.
Jesus finished what HE came to earth to do.
Now it's YOUR turn to do your part.
See my previous post and please reply to the scripture.
Matthew 1:21
21 And she will bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins.
So?
Jesus saves the born again...HIS PEOPLE....from their sins.
And not them ONLY, but the sins of ALL THE WORLD.
1 John 2:2
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
ALL of humanity was lost in the Garden...
sold to satan.
Jesus bought back ALL of humanity from satan.
But, of course, through free will, each person must DESIRE TO PLEASE GOD and not satan.
Not here to waste my time BF.
If you would study the NT instead of listening to heretical teachers....
you'd understand the word of God.
You most assuredly do NOT understand Matthew 1:21 or any other biblical verse for that matter.
Ive already told you and you even agreed with me. What it DOESNT promise is that faith alone is sufficient for salvation.
Well faith hasn't anything to do with the promise made in Matt 1:21, the promise is based upon the promise and ability of the one making the promise. So you adding a superfluous comment
Taken,
Jesus doesn't agree with you.
As far as Jesus is concerned, one can abide IN HIM,,,
and then NOT abide IN HIM.
He teaches that we must continue to abide in Him.
He teaches that we are IN HIM
IF
we abide in Him.
The word IF is conditional.
Conditional on whether or not we are abiding IN HIM.
If one is NOT in Christ he is not saved....
either before salvation or after salvation.
John 15:5-6
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
If we ABIDE in Christ,,,we will be saved.
Abide means to live with.
Jesus said IF we do not ABIDE in Him....
continue to live IN HIM then we will be like the branches that are thrown away.
Luke 8:13
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
JESUS said "they believe for a while
and then fall away".
It's Jesus saying making these statements Taken...
not me.
If Jesus says we could believe for a while...
it means...
We could believe for a while, and THEN fall away.
All that stuff you posted up there mans nothing in the face of what Jesus taught.
No Behold.
James said that FAITH without works is DEAD.
Very simple but not very comfortable.
Taken
Well-Known Member
He teaches that we must continue to abide in Him.
He teaches that we are IN HIM
IF
we abide in Him.
The word IF is conditional.
Conditional on whether or not we are abiding IN HIM.
If one is NOT in Christ he is not saved....
either before salvation or after salvation.
If we ABIDE in Christ,,,we will be saved.
Abide means to live with.
Jesus said IF we do not ABIDE in Him....
continue to live IN HIM then we will be like the branches that are thrown away.
Luke 8:13
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
JESUS said "they believe for a while
and then fall away".
It's Jesus saying making these statements Taken...
not me.
If Jesus says we could believe for a while...
it means...
We could believe for a while, and THEN fall away.
All that stuff you posted up there mans nothing in the face of what Jesus taught.
[/QUOTE]
WITH does not mean IN.
Human persons Can be WITH God and FALL AWAY.
Human persons IN Christ can NEVER Fall Away..
Taken
Well-Known Member
FAITH is a Gift that Belongs to God.
Gods FAITH, WITHOUT Gods WORKS is Dead.
A man Can be Given Gods Gift of Faith…
God Gives That Gift to men who Hear His Word.
That Gift of Faith Is Dead…. WITHOUT… a man WORKING the Same WORK God WORKED.
Do you Know The WORK of God, That a man MUST ALSO WORK the Work “of God?”
It is in Scripture.
It is called… BELIEF.
A man can be Gifted (from God) Faith, upon Faith, Upon Faith…
If that man DOES NOT WORK Gods Same WORK (BELIEF)…
That mans Gift of Faith… is …
of No use, Fruitless, Dead.
You a man, can “Work your works”…
All day long.
Labor for money…Clean your house, Cook and share a meal, blah, blah…
Until you WORK the WORK of Gods Work (Believe)… your received Gift of Faith from God… is Dead.
Faith is not the savior..
Also the verse does not say that Salvation is dead, as Salvation is eternal life, and Eternal life can't die or end.
God accepts a person's Faith, once......on their salvation day, and that is why they are born again, once.
So, that is the faith that God required and God accepted it and their "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness", and they are born again.
This is not, evolving, or progressive, its a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, whereby the person become a "new Creation"......"in Christ".
So, their FAITH was accepte and now they are heaven bound.
They dont keep believing to try to stay saved, as God has accepted their faith, and SAVED THEM Completely.
This is why the verse say we are "Complete IN HIM">......."IN Christ".......as "ONE WITH GOD"> = Colossians 2:10
God's Gift of Salvaiton is not part time, and its not based on your Behavior, its based on The Cross of Christ.
"but behold, if i lose my faith, after im saved dont i burn in hell, after i die".
No you dont, as God has already accepted your Faith......its DONE... that is why a person is BORN AGAIN.
Its ACCOMPLISHED.
"yes, but, what if i lost my faith, next week or next Octorber 14Th ?, ""
God is faithful to finish your Salvation, as its HIS that He gave you. = Philippians 1:6
And this Colossians 2:10
if we believe not, yet God abideth faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
ASV
if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself.
AMP
If we are faithless, He remains faithful [true to His word and His righteous character], for He cannot deny Himself.
AMPC
If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.
BRG
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
CSB
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
CSBA
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
CEB
If we are disloyal, he stays faithful” because he can’t be anything else than what he is.
CJB
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
CEV
If we are not faithful, he will still be faithful. Christ cannot deny who he is.”
DARBY
if we are unfaithful, *he* abides faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
DLNT
if we are faithless, that One remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
DRA
If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he can not deny himself.
ERV
If we are not faithful, he will still be faithful, because he cannot be false to himself.
EASY
Even if we no longer trust him, he will still be someone that people can trust. He will always remain true to his nature.’
EHV
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, because he cannot deny himself.
ESV
@Taken
You said this in post no. 73 (it was messed up for some reason)
"WITH does not mean IN.
Human persons Can be WITH God and FALL AWAY.
Human persons IN Christ can NEVER Fall Away.."
So WITH God is not good enough for you?
You like IN CHRIST better?
I stated that a person must ABIDE IN CHRIST in order to be saved....
and that it's possible to NOT abide in Christ since Jesus taught this.
Let's see again what JESUS stated:
John 15:5-6
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
The discussion is not about being WITH GOD...although being with God means the person is attached to God.
The discussion regards being IN CHRIST and Jesus is stating that IF we are not abiding ..... LIVING .... in Christ, we cannot produce fruit and so we will be like the branches that are thrown away and burned.
And in case there is still some doubt, let's check out.
John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
Jesus teaches that every branch IN HIM (a believer) that does NOT bear fruit,,,GOD TAKES AWAY.
It gets thrown out, dried up, and burned.
See verse 6 above.
Jesus left no doubt as to what HE taught.
A person could be IN HIM,,,,
and if he does not produce fruit,,,,
he will be thrown away.
You said this in post no. 73 (it was messed up for some reason)
"WITH does not mean IN.
Human persons Can be WITH God and FALL AWAY.
Human persons IN Christ can NEVER Fall Away.."
So WITH God is not good enough for you?
You like IN CHRIST better?
I stated that a person must ABIDE IN CHRIST in order to be saved....
and that it's possible to NOT abide in Christ since Jesus taught this.
Let's see again what JESUS stated:
John 15:5-6
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
The discussion is not about being WITH GOD...although being with God means the person is attached to God.
The discussion regards being IN CHRIST and Jesus is stating that IF we are not abiding ..... LIVING .... in Christ, we cannot produce fruit and so we will be like the branches that are thrown away and burned.
And in case there is still some doubt, let's check out.
John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
Jesus teaches that every branch IN HIM (a believer) that does NOT bear fruit,,,GOD TAKES AWAY.
It gets thrown out, dried up, and burned.
See verse 6 above.
Jesus left no doubt as to what HE taught.
A person could be IN HIM,,,,
and if he does not produce fruit,,,,
he will be thrown away.
We're discussing believers here Taken.
We're discussing born again persons that are IN CHRIST.
Those IN CHRIST that do NOT produce fruit/good works....
will be thrown away, like a branch not producing fruit, dried up, and burned.
JESUS is saying this...not me.
John 15:2
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He [God] takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
By your own admission, a person IN CHRIST is a saved person.
A person IN CHRIST can be taken away, removed, severed.
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