"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Lifelong_sinner]

And on and on it goes....

The irony is that God Himself could be here explaining where and how they're mistaken and they'd deaf-ear it and refuse to accept the Truth.

As a matter of fact, He is here ... doing just that ... by His Words being presented over and over, but the OSAS Soldiers will never falter. It HAS to be OSAS. There is no compromise. Bible be darned, it is OSAS or nothing.

That is actually a stark indicator of Christian sincerity as well. When someone refuses, beyond all reason, to acknowledge scripture's correction, there is something woefully wrong with their Christian walk. We should ALL desire to be corrected by His Words. Not adamantly refuse to hear them.

Yet, it is what it is and it's gon' be what it's gon' be.

Revelation 22:11

interesting, i was just thinking the same thing about you arminianists.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And on and on it goes....

The irony is that God Himself could be here explaining where and how they're mistaken and they'd deaf-ear it and refuse to accept the Truth.

As a matter of fact, He is here ... doing just that ... by His Words being presented over and over, but the OSAS Soldiers will never falter. It HAS to be OSAS. There is no compromise. Bible be darned, it is OSAS or nothing.

That is actually a stark indicator of Christian sincerity as well. When someone refuses, beyond all reason, to acknowledge scripture's correction, there is something woefully wrong with their Christian walk. We should ALL desire to be corrected by His Words. Not adamantly refuse to hear them.

Yet, it is what it is and it's gon' be what it's gon' be.

Revelation 22:11

so do you arminianists really doubt that there are false converts? Why do yall think salvation is so easy??

 

[Cooper]

Well, which is it..."rest" or "plow?"

You said, "give it a rest", He said "plow."

The problem with your Exposition, is you have presented it not as "My burden is light", but as "works."

Jesus did not contradict Himself to say "plow" and also "My burden is light." But rather that His light burden is rest to those who are weary and heavy laden, but requires an "all in" commitment. Which, if done fully, leaves nothing to be done-- not requiring that we give all in a laborsome life, but rather, that He gave all.

Again, this whole idea of those who have been set free and given rest, needing to go back into captivity and works to workout their own salvation, comes from not "rightly dividing the word of truth"--which is the gospel of Jesus given to two different "folds" (two different groups) by two different narratives.

It was to Israel that Jesus preached "But he who endures to the end shall be saved", because they would not receive salvation until after death in the flesh. But those "who are alive and remain", who are born again of the spirit of God before death in the flesh, He did not preach to them--not to that "other fold", for He had only come for the house of Israel. However, He did explain how He would come to that other fold, which is by the Helper, and by Him knocking at the door, that He would come in to them...not by works or endurance, but by hearing and answering. All of which must be rightly divided in the word of truth, or you grieve the Holy Spirit who was to come when Jesus went to the Father--not when death comes to all flesh.

But none of this will be understandable if one does not understand that Jesus spoke to "the first" ("the dead in Christ", which was Israel, who died in the flesh) and also to "the last" ("the living in Christ" who receive life everlasting while "alive and remaining" in the world), saying, "But many who are first will be last, and the last first." It is these two groups which make for two different narratives, that require the word of truth be "rightly divided."

These things Jesus, the apostles, and Paul preached two thousand years ago. Yet, sadly, most still "turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage."

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, (the backslider) is fit for the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:62 KJV)
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, (the backslider) is fit for the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:62 KJV)
.

do you consider back sliders to be another name for false converts?

 

[Stumpmaster]

do you consider back sliders to be another name for false converts?

In some cases the backslider is a false convert, in other cases they are saved but ill-disciplined and unfruitful due to various factors including demonic activity.

1Co 3:12-15 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, (13) each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. (14) If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. (15) If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[ScottA]

It is good that a rant and the truth are easily distinguished by those who have eyes to see. Such contempt.

 

[Cooper]

do you consider back sliders to be another name for false converts?

Not really, we have to believe before we can stop believing.
Or to put it another way, we need to accept Jesus as our Saviour and Redeemer before we can reject Him.

I don't know if Calvinists have ever accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they seem to think they are elected, but unless they have made that commitment to Him, and repented of their sins, they are not saved.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Not really, we have to believe before we can stop believing.
Or to put it another way, we need to accept Jesus as our Saviour and Redeemer before we can reject Him.
.

wait…. What?? Ok so define a back slider for me then define a false convert.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I don't know if Calvinists have ever accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they seem to think they are elected, but unless they have made that commitment to Him, and repented of their sins, they are not saved.
.

wow! This is one of those moments where i exercise some self control and not say anything.

 

[Taken]

Jesus saved us from our sins by what He did on the cross. Jew and Gentile alike. There is nothing we need to do except believe in Him, in the knowledge that only God, "Jesus Emmanuel," can save us from our sins. Then we need to follow Him all the days of our life, and we are saved eternally. The one thing we must not do is deny that Jesus Emmanuel is God with us, for He is the Saviour of the world. So open up your heart to Jesus and bid Him enter in. Revelation 3:20.

Yes and No.

OT covenant -
Yes, believe in God and (at that time His “unnamed” Word)...
TO: the end of their PHYSICAL LIFE, and YES they, AT their PHYSICAL DEATH, they WOULD BECOME “Baptized with the Holy Spirit” and SAVED.
^ THAT STILL APPLIES....believing to their death day...(ie ENDURE).
^ THESE Persons SHALL BE RAISED AFTER the millennial Reign.
** They are SAVED, by, through, God and He Shall Resurrect them.
OSAS ^ applies After Physical Death.

NT covenant -
Yes, A NEW OFFERING.
While ALIVE in ones Living Flesh Body;
TO; Confess HEARTFUL Belief of JESUS is the Named Word of God, CHRIST is the Power of God, GOD is the Living God.
^ THAT Began APPLYING AFTER Jesus returned to Heaven.
^ THESE Persons (Have bodily died, crucified with Christ, Soul Saved, Spirit Quickened.)
^ THESE Persons, (physically living, or physically dead, SHALL BE RAISED Above the Face of the Earth, BEFORE the end of days TRIBULATION, none being Subject to the Wrath upon the Face of the Earth.)
They are SAVED, by, through, of the Lord and He Shall Resurrect them.
OSAS ^ applies Before Physical Death.

There IS a stark difference that centers around BELIEF.
* ONE... the Individual by his own power, must Remain IN BELIEF.
(Ie ENDURE), and the Warnings and Cautions ARE: Evil spirits and Wicked men will continuously try to SWAY men away from Belief, with cunning words and tempting enticements.
* TWO.. the Individual having given a Heartful Confession, Remains IN BELIEF, by the BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT, (Christ, Gods POWER) enters that Person, and KEEPS that Person IN BELIEF, whereby ... no Evil spirit or Wicked man can SWAY them AWAY from Belief. [/B]



John 10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


* Rising up of those IN Christ;

1 Thes 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

* Rising up of those WITH God; (Those who believed in God, in Jesus, to their Physical Death/endured, but not Converted during their Physical Life.)

1 Thes 4
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

wait…. What?? Ok so define a back slider for me then define a false convert.

See here for false Christians 25 Important Bible Verses About Fake Christians (Must-Read).

Obviously these people never can backslide because there is nothing to backslide from, they are still living in sin and iniquity. As Calvinists deny the possibility of backsliding, I wonder if they ever made that commitment to follow Jesus all the days of their life in the first place. So not Christians. They never made that commitment. Accepting Jesus as our Saviour is something we do of our own free will and as they do not believe in free will in the first place, then they cannot have surrendered their lives to Jesus, meaning their sins will not be forgiven. So, they are not saved. And as they do not believe in free will, they cannot come to Jesus and repent of their sins. Neither is God going to elect a sinner, and as all men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, they will not be among the redeemed.
.

 

[Taken]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER. OP^

PAY ATTENTION TO THE TRUTH...

Revealing Gods Word, IS Gods ACT.
Hearing Gods Word, IS mans ACT.
Believing Gods Word, IS mans Freewill.

Man Enduring IN BELIEF, IS mans Freewill.
Man Not Enduring IN BELIEF, IS mans Freewill.

Man Enduring IN BELIEF, to his physical Death;
SHALL BECOME SAVED, at his physical Death!

Man Accepting Gods offering of conversion , BEFORE his physical Death.
SHALL BECOME SAVED, before his physical Death!

It is a difference BETWEEN....WHOSE POWER is KEEPING that man “IN BELIEF”...
The mans own will power...’till his death. (Hope his will is not influenced by evil spirits, wicked men.)
or
Gods Spirit “IN” the man...effected ONCE and FOREVER. (Assurance nothing is a greater Power than God Himself.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

The question is, "What must I DO to be saved." Acts 16:30

Answer: Come to Jesus believing.

Calvinists say they are elected. Wrong answer.
.

 

[quietthinker]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
I suppose frying in hell forever is also a gift of eternal life?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The question is, "What must I DO to be saved." Acts 16:30

Answer: Come to Jesus believing.

Calvinists say they are elected. Wrong answer.
.

Ephesians 1:4-5
Acts 13:48
1 peter 2:8
Romans 8:28-29
John 6:39

just a few verses to show the doctrine of election is Biblical.

 

[Taken]

Not really, we have to believe before we can stop believing.
Or to put it another way, we need to accept Jesus as our Saviour and Redeemer before we can reject Him.

I don't know if Calvinists have ever accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they seem to think they are elected, but unless they have made that commitment to Him, and repented of their sins, they are not saved.
.

I get your point, but would distinguish between...Believing and Accepting.

Hearing, believing, doubting, wondering, unsure, believing....etc. IS what every person experiences when Hearing “Any new information”. (Secularly, worldly, science, news, historically, gossip, religiously, scripturally, etc....)

ACCEPTING is an individual weighing the “new information”, and landing on a firm belief.

Remember, “additional information” is continually heard and learned by an individual throughout their lives. People change their MINDS based on the more they hear and learn.

ACCEPTING Gods Word, has nothing to do with what the MIND is weighing back and forth.
ACCEPTING Gods Word, is VIA, a CONFESSION, of the HEARTS TRUE BELIEF.

It’s a conundrum, but the knowledge revealed in Scripture.

Men feed men Knowledge...Men’s MINDS weigh the knowledge.
Men HEARING GODS KNOWLEDGE (Gods Word)...GOD “gifts” that mans HEART....measures of FAITH....It is precisely those “measures of Gods gift of faith TO the mans HEARTS thoughts”....of HOW a mans Heart IS able to strengthen in HEART-FUL belief.

The more a man HEARS mans knowledge, a mans MIND becomes strengthened in mans knowledge....which may be TRUE or FALSE.

The more a man HEARS Gods knowledge, a mans HEART becomes strengthened in GODS knowledge....which IS ONLY TRUTH.

Men can ACCEPT...mans Mindful knowledge, by MINDFUL acceptance.
...Mans freewill will keep or reject at any time, what he has accepted.
Men can ACCEPT...Gods Heartful knowledge, by HEARTFUL acceptance.
...Gods Power will keep forever, what the man has accepted.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
I suppose frying in hell forever is also a gift of eternal life?

There is no sentence of “frying in hell forever” that applies to living men.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Westminster Confessions chpt 10.

All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved.”

Justification chpt 11
“Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.”

God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

the Westminster confessions prove that Calvinism is the most correct doctrine, and along with the longer and short catechisms, remove all doubt that other doctrines are false.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

There is no sentence of “frying in hell forever” that applies to living men.

wait, you dont believe that hell is eternal torment??

nevermind, i re read it. It made sense the 3rd time. Ok im going to bed now.

 

[Taken]

Ephesians 1:4-5
Acts 13:48
1 peter 2:8
Romans 8:28-29
John 6:39

just a few verses to show the doctrine of election is Biblical.

1 Thes 4:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Glory to God,
Taken