"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Cooper]

you dont know what a back slider is. This is why i asked you earlier to explain it, and now i see you dont know. What denomination do you belong to??? Cant be presbyterian or baptist. Im starting to wonder if you’re even protestant.

I am happy to worship in any Christian church, be they Baptist, Methodist, C of E, Evangelical, Pentecostal etc.

Now, you tell me what you understand by the word backslider.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I am happy to worship in any Christian church, be they Baptist, Methodist, C of E, Evangelical, Pentecostal etc.

Now, you tell me what you understand by the word backslider.
.

From Ligonier Ministries, “Believers may backslide, but those whom the Holy Spirit has regenerated will come to their senses, returning in repentance to the Savior (Luke 15:11–32; 22:54–62; John 21:15–19). Though we ourselves may not see fallen brethren return to the faith, they will indeed come back to Christ if they have been converted.
Back sliders are regular christians who simply go through a spell of unrepentant sin, but eventually do repent.
Every christian has fallen into this. Every person is a sinner. We sin daily.

 

[GEN2REV]

heres where your doctrine comes into importance. First, God the Father calls you, second, Jesus’ death paid the fine of our sins. Third, the Holy Spirit lives in you, sealing you as part of the elect.

My doctrine is steadfast, Rock-solid & 100% backed by scripture - displayed in every post in every thread I post in for all to see and test against God's Word.

Your doctrine holds no water at all, is shaky and incoherent and changes regularly when it suits you.

 

[GEN2REV]

Fine, but they come on the forums and say they are always saved, despite their works saying otherwise.

They need to make an option for levels of LIKE.

This is brilliant.

And this nonsense they keep peddling about 'False Converts' is completely irrelevant drivel. Yes, there are False Converts, as you so eloquently confirm by identifying them in this thread, but John 15:2 & 6 are not referring to such a thing.

As was previously stated, Jesus knows the heart. Therefore, He wouldn't refer to a 'False Convert' as being IN HIM. He is only referring to those who have sincerely embraced Him and His ways. They do not "abide in Him", just exactly as the scripture states it, and so are lost.

Also, the seal of the Holy Spirit can be removed, just as also was already presented.
Revelation 2:5

 

[GEN2REV]

Sinning is the only way to lose your salvation right? And people sin daily, so how many times do you have to be saved in a day??

This is a completely pointless argument that you continue to bring up again and again. God knows the heart. If somebody loses their sincerity for Him in their heart, they are lost. Simple as that.

If they sin and repent, ask forgiveness sincerely and make an effort to put that sin away, He forgives them.
Made clear by Matthew 18:22.

People don't change the sincerity of their heart multiple times in a day. It's a process of backsliding until they don't care anymore. And guess what else, Sinner?

Every single time you allow, and embrace, sin in your life, no matter how seemingly insignificant, you move a little further away from God and closer to destruction. So someone like you who proudly announces themselves as 'Lifelong Sinner' is in real trouble. And possibly a lost cause. But you CAN return to God only if you do so with deep regret and repentance and sincerely change your heart. Better get started. Nobody is promised tomorrow.

 

[Cooper]

From Ligonier Ministries, “Believers may backslide, but those whom the Holy Spirit has regenerated will come to their senses, returning in repentance to the Savior (Luke 15:11–32; 22:54–62; John 21:15–19). Though we ourselves may not see fallen brethren return to the faith, they will indeed come back to Christ if they have been converted.
Back sliders are regular christians who simply go through a spell of unrepentant sin, but eventually do repent.
Every christian has fallen into this. Every person is a sinner. We sin daily.

When I read verses like these below, I think "backslider" but perhaps "apostate" is more accurate. So would you search "apostate" or "apostatise," "apostasy," "depart" and "fall away" please, simply because we need to have the same understanding. Thank you.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-10 KJV)

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; (1 Timothy 4:1-2 KJV)
.

 

[GEN2REV]

Every person is a sinner. We sin daily.

This just doesn't align with scripture at all. It is what you, and your ilk, tell yourselves to be more comfortable with your fallen state.

A true Christian must rise above all of these wicked lies and follow the narrow road. Those who preach and believe this populate the wide road that leads to destruction. They will ALL one day scream in agony, "Lord, Lord, Lord ... !!!"

 

[mailmandan]

That's a nice, full explanation of your opinion of OSAS and how you believe John 15:2 & 6 do not contradict it.

That was not simply my opinion and I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

Unfortunately, you are using all extra-biblical writings and opinions of men to construct your point.

In addition to properly harmonizing scripture with scripture, I cited one commentary from AT Robertson who was a well respected Christian and Greek scholar.

Only scripture can define and validate scripture.

Agreed, just like I shared in my post.

John 15:2 & 6 clearly state that those IN CHRIST can be lost if they do not abide in Him.

Once again, when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Your argument is that IN CHRIST doesn't mean what it appears to mean. This is age-old redefinition of scripture; a tactic as old as the dirt. "Well, it says that, but what it really means is ... "

Once again, "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

God wrote the Bible. God made every doctrine clear. God repeats, and defines, doctrine He knew would some day be twisted by man to seem unclear. That is why He inspired Peter to write 2 Peter 1:20.

God's word is clear after we properly harmonize scripture with scripture and His word is often twisted by false teachers in various false religions.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man is IN CHRIST, he is a new creature (creation): old things are passed away, behold all things are become new. (Saved, sanctified, regenerated)

In the body of Christ here under the New Covenant AFTER the Holy Spirit was given.

Romans 6:13 "Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into His death?" (New creation - resurrected, saved, sanctified, regenerated)

In the body of Christ here under the New Covenant AFTER the Holy Spirit was given.

John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: ..." (saved, sanctified, regenerated - taken away by the Father.)
John 15:6 " If a man abide (stays, remains, lives) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (abiding - remaining, staying, living [you can't remain where you never were to begin with])

Once again in me (in the vine) in this analogy BEFORE the Holy Spirit was given and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit (descriptive of unbelievers) and branches that bear fruit (descriptive of genuine believers) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

These are those who have been saved, sanctified, regenerated and are resurrected IN CHRIST. And they are being removed by the Father and cast into the fire for destruction.

These verses speak for themselves.

God does not cast His saints into hell. It's the wicked who are cut off. Psalm 37:28 - For the LORD loves justice, and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Yes these verses do speak for themselves. After the Holy Spirit was given (John 7:38-39) believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body -- the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) but not before. *You need to rightly divide the word of truth.* In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot).

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do, but all genuine believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, choosing the things of the world over the things of God. Pride, vice, man's approval, etc.

It happens every day.

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
2 Peter 2:20-21

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature/become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and have new desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these people because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and was never saved.

Once Saved, Now Lost.

False

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen (from a position of having been saved), and repent, ... or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place(take back the Holy Spirit), except thou repent."
Revelation 2:5

In regards to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, clearly the Lord wanted the church at Ephesus to repent -- to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for love. So what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lamp stand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) in which the vast majority of Turkey is Islam. Go figure.

Once Saved, Now Lost.

False

"remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In regards to James 5:19-20, notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark. (Hebrews 11:7) "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life".

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16)

All Christians are sinners they say? Looks like Christians can be lost by living in sin after being saved.

So how much sin does it take to become lost all over again? Do you promote sinless perfection? Also, do you teach salvation by faith + works?

Once Saved, Now Lost.

False

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

This just doesn't align with scripture at all. It is what you, and your ilk, tell yourselves to be more comfortable with your fallen state.

A true Christian must rise above all of these wicked lies and follow the narrow road. Those who preach and believe this populate the wide road that leads to destruction. They will ALL one day scream in agony, "Lord, Lord, Lord ... !!!"

actually it does align with scripture, but thats ok. You JW people are wackydoodles to begin with. The sky is purple and the grass is red on yalls world i guess.

 

[GEN2REV]

That was not simply my opinion and I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

In addition to properly harmonizing scripture with scripture, I cited one commentary from AT Robertson who was a well respected Christian and Greek scholar.

Agreed, just like I shared in my post.

Once again, when Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Once again, "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

God's word is clear after we properly harmonize scripture with scripture and His word is often twisted by false teachers in various false religions.

In the body of Christ here under the New Covenant AFTER the Holy Spirit was given.

In the body of Christ here under the New Covenant AFTER the Holy Spirit was given.

Once again in me (in the vine) in this analogy BEFORE the Holy Spirit was given and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit (descriptive of unbelievers) and branches that bear fruit (descriptive of genuine believers) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

God does not cast His saints into hell. It's the wicked who are cut off. Psalm 37:28 - For the LORD loves justice, and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Yes these verses do speak for themselves. After the Holy Spirit was given (John 7:38-39) believers are baptized by one Spirit into one body -- the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) but not before. *You need to rightly divide the word of truth.* In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot).

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do, but all genuine believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Who inspired the prophets of old, Dan?

In-spire - in spirit, to indwell your spirit, to fill your spirit.

Jesus states clearly that He was present with them all in spirit. Luke 24:27

The Holy Spirit was present upon the earth before and after Christ's physical embodiment. And, debatably, during as well since John the baptist had the spirit from the womb. Luke 1:15 There is a case to be made for Isaiah, Jeremiah & David also having the spirit from the womb. Jeremiah 1:5; Isaiah 44:24; Isaiah 49:15; Psalms 71:6

Again, this position in favor of OSAS doesn't stand up to scripture.

 

[GEN2REV]

So how much sin does it take to become lost all over again? Do you promote sinless perfection? Also, do you teach salvation by faith + works?

Again with this 'sinless perfection' nonsense that nobody here has mentioned even once besides those in favor of OSAS. An empty, baseless distraction.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature/become partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and have new desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these people because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and was never saved.

False

In regards to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2, clearly the Lord wanted the church at Ephesus to repent -- to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for love. So what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lamp stand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) in which the vast majority of Turkey is Islam. Go figure.

False

In regards to James 5:19-20, notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died". In 1 Peter 3:20 "... God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water" by the ark. (Hebrews 11:7) "Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life".

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16)

So how much sin does it take to become lost all over again? Do you promote sinless perfection? Also, do you teach salvation by faith + works?

False

I am truly amazed at those who do not understand the standard or glory of God (rom 3) and how all of us have fallen short of that. (for all have sinned)

Then think somehow miraculously they all of a sudden meet that standard after they are saved, and are not still where they stand far short of the glory of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Again with this 'sinless perfection' nonsense that nobody here has mentioned even once besides those in favor of OSAS. An empty, baseless distraction.

I was just asking you a question. A simple NO will do. There are people who teach it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again with this 'sinless perfection' nonsense that nobody here has mentioned even once besides those in favor of OSAS. An empty, baseless distraction.

Gods standard is perfection.

If you are not sinless. according to Gods standard you are rightly condemned

so when you claim someone can lose their salvation. You in affect claim, you can meet that standard.

hence where sinless perfection comes.

there are two ways to heaven.

the wide gate (by our own righteousness, the standard is perfection)
the narrow gate (grace through faith in the work of God alone)

 

[GEN2REV]

You JW people are wackydoodles to begin with. The sky is purple and the grass is red on yalls world i guess.

Another pointless and baseless accusation.

For those following along with this thread, the outcome is clear. OSAS is vanquished. The false prophets are languishing and grasping at straw man fallacies.

This concludes the case against OSAS exposing it as an obvious perversion of scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

Who inspired the prophets of old, Dan?

In-spire - in spirit, to indwell your spirit, to fill your spirit.

Jesus states clearly that He was present with them all in spirit. Luke 24:27

The Holy Spirit was present upon the earth before and after Christ's physical embodiment. And, debatably, during as well since John the baptist had the spirit from the womb. Luke 1:15 There is a case to be made for Isaiah, Jeremiah & David also having the spirit from the womb. Jeremiah 1:5; Isaiah 44:24; Isaiah 49:15; Psalms 71:6

Again, this position in favor of OSAS doesn't stand up to scripture.

So you disagree with John 7:38-39? The Holy Spirit was not yet given/people were not sealed with the Holy Spirit until after Jesus was glorified. People who are absolutely obsessed with attacking OSAS typically view themselves as "holier than thou" and/or teach "type 2 works salvation."

 

[GEN2REV]

Gods standard is perfection.

If you are not sinless. according to Gods standard you are rightly condemned

so when you claim someone can lose their salvation. You in affect claim, you can meet that standard.

hence where sinless perfection comes.

there are two ways to heaven.

the wide gate (by our own righteousness, the standard is perfection)
the narrow gate (grace through faith in the work of God alone)

False, false and more false.

We meet the standard when we live daily in humble submission to God and His ways, walking after the example of Christ; striving for perfection and feeling true remorse and repenting of any and all unintentional sin. That is living IN CHRIST and thus HE is what God sees in our place. HE makes us worthy when we live IN HIM.

If you stray from that standard of living, you CAN be lost. Just as scripture plainly states. And the great falling away is another example of Christians departing from the faith and being lost.

 

[GEN2REV]

So you disagree with John 7:38-39? The Holy Spirit was not yet given/people were not sealed with the Holy Spirit until after Jesus was glorified. People who are absolutely obsessed with attacking OSAS typically view themselves as "holier than thou" and/or teach "type 2 works salvation."

Clearly, there is something more to it in light of the scriptures I presented.

And you come with yet another baseless accusation. It is the OSAS proponents who believe they are holier than the angels who were damned for their disobedience.

 

[mailmandan]

Clearly, there is something more to it in light of the scriptures I presented.

And you come with yet another baseless accusation. It is the OSAS proponents who believe they are holier than the angels who were damned for their disobedience.

Say what? There was nothing baseless about my argument at all and you obviously have a beef with OSAS proponents.