"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Lifelong_sinner]

Do you believe you are more holy than the angels, Sinner?

Sincere question.

im not Holy at all.

 

[GEN2REV]

For reasons already stated from Scripture, I totally disagree with the "sinless perfection" doctrine.

As far as I know, you are the only person who has said anything about 'sinless perfection.' NOBODY has claimed that. It's yet another Straw Man. It's the go-to tactic with your team.

 

[GEN2REV]

im not Holy at all.

We all get that, but for the sake of the discussion, how will you go to heaven then?

Does God take unholy people to heaven?

The fallen angels were very holy. More holy than any of us will ever be. And even they have been damned for their sins. How do you explain that in light of your position that unholy fallible humans are saved forever and will be in heaven?

Both things can't be true.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

We all get that, but for the sake of the discussion, how will you go to heaven then?

Does God take unholy people to heaven?

The fallen angels were very holy. More holy than any of us will ever be. And even they have been damned for their sins. How do you explain that in light of your position that unholy fallible humans are saved forever and will be in heaven?

Both things can't be true.

heres where your doctrine comes into importance. First, God the Father calls you, second, Jesus’ death paid the fine of our sins. Third, the Holy Spirit lives in you, sealing you as part of the elect.

 

[Cooper]

im starting to get a better picture of those who dont believe in OSAS, theres a pattern. so to make this easier, let me see if i can list these for you.

1. you sin every. Single.day.
2. The reason you need Jesus is because you are indeed a sinner. A single sin will keep you from getting into Heaven. Adam and eve committed 1 sin and look at what happened to mankind. you dont view sin as the terribleness that God views it. Thankfully, once saved, Jesus forgives all sin, past, present, and future.
3. you do fail God constantly. You cant make God any happier by doing good, because Jesus already made God happy with the death, burial, and resurrection.
4. You cannot stop your sinning completely. Once your sanctification begins, you should sin less and less.
5. OSAS is Biblical. False converts are Biblical ( simon the magician). But once saved, you cannot lose your salvation. 1 john 2:19 proves false converts exist. Judas was a false convert.

If people can sin like you say they can, they can go back into their old godless ways no problem. And what gets to me, is that they say it doesn't matter. It seems to me they do not have a conscience. No feeling of guilt whatsoever. Wouldn't you expect to see a change in their life once they accept Jesus into their heart?

 

[ScottA]

John 15:2 & 6 clearly state that those IN CHRIST can be lost if they do not abide in him.

Those in Christ do not abide in him???

Like that makes a lot of sense.

 

[ScottA]

So we are to assume that Scriptures against eternal security are "cherry picked" and just get carried away with what you are saying?

Can you defend your position with Scripture?

There are a lot of people promoting this idea that you can't lose your salvation. But it's still not a biblical idea.

If it is, why not show us through the Scriptures?

I'm out of town at the moment and it might be hard to present it on my phone, but biblically saved means saved. The scriptures say that when a person is actually saved, it is no longer they who live, but God who lives in them. They are One with God just as Jesus is, therefore, it is God who cannot loose His salvation...because God is salvation. All biblical...and simple.

 

[Cooper]

Those in Christ do not abide in him???

Like that makes a lot of sense.

They are not bearing fruit.

 

[Cooper]

I'm out of town at the moment and it might be hard to present it on my phone, but biblically saved means saved. The scriptures say that when a person is actually saved, it is no longer they who live, but God who lives in them. They are One with God just as Jesus is, therefore, it is God who cannot loose His salvation...because God is salvation. All biblical...and simple.

!!!

 

[Cooper]

Jesus said, we are known by our fruit and when I see people saying they are always saved regardless, I immediately remember this, and think to myself, "these people are not saved."

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:15-20 KJV)
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Jesus said, we are known by our fruit and when I see people saying they are always saved regardless, I immediately remember this, and think to myself, "these people are not saved."

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:15-20 KJV)
.

You still dont get it. Once a person is saved, the Holy Spirit will begin the work of sanctification. False converts arent saved so no sanctification. If you are truly saved, the Holy Spirit will forever change you, mold you into a better person. And when He does it, that progress wont fail.
Yes, we are known by our fruits, or works. Works arent what save you though. Good Works are the assurance that you have been saved. So say someone starts going to church, they stopped drinking or using drugs, they got themselves cleaned up, but in 6 months they start to go back to their old ways. That is the sign that they were never saved to begin with.

 

[Cooper]

You still dont get it. Once a person is saved, the Holy Spirit will begin the work of sanctification. False converts arent saved so no sanctification. If you are truly saved, the Holy Spirit will forever change you, mold you into a better person. And when He does it, that progress wont fail.
Yes, we are known by our fruits, or works. Works arent what save you though. Good Works are the assurance that you have been saved. So say someone starts going to church, they stopped drinking or using drugs, they got themselves cleaned up, but in 6 months they start to go back to their old ways. That is the sign that they were never saved to begin with.

I get that the OSAS people are false teachers when they say they are always saved regardless of their lifestyle. This in my opinion is the work of the devil. Platitudes are worthless, like the banging of empty drums.
.

 

[Cooper]

So say someone starts going to church, they stopped drinkIng or using drugs, they got themselves cleaned up, but in 6 months they start to go back to their old ways. That is the sign that they were never saved to begin with.

Fine, but they come on the forums and say they are always saved, despite their works saying otherwise.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Fine, but they come on the forums and say they are always saved, despite their works saying otherwise.
.

and NOWWWW, you are starting to understand why Jesus said not everyone who claims to be saved, actually is. Now you get what a false convert is. But i do say to be careful, people backslide. Dont judge a person wrongly. This is why i call people out on their doctrine, not their actions unless blatantly bad. Doctrines dont save people.

 

[Cooper]

and NOWWWW, you are starting to understand why Jesus said not everyone who claims to be saved, actually is. Now you get what a false convert is. But i do say to be careful, people backslide. Dont judge a person wrongly. This is why i call people out on their doctrine, not their actions unless blatantly bad. Doctrines dont save people.

So you admit people backslide. I know they do. I also know they have to accept Christ as their Saviour BEFORE they can backslide. I also know what their end will be, and I also know the OSAS comfort blanket gives people false hope.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So you admit people backslide. I know they do. I also know they have to accept Christ as their Saviour BEFORE they can backslide. I also know what their end will be, and I also know the OSAS comfort blanket gives people false hope.
.

i’ve never said they dont. But it is possible to backslide and still remain saved. For instance, if you stop going to church, for no good reason, you’re back sliding. That doesnt mean you lost your salvation though.
What i dont get is you OSAS deniers say people can lose their salvation. Lets say thats true for a minute… how many times in the course of a day do you get saved?? Sinning is the only way to lose your salvation right? And people sin daily, so how many times do you have to be saved in a day??

 

[Cooper]

i’ve never said they dont. But it is possible to backslide and still remain saved. For instance, if you stop going to church, for no good reason, you’re back sliding. That doesnt mean you lost your salvation though.
What i dont get is you OSAS deniers say people can lose their salvation. Lets say thats true for a minute… how many times in the course of a day do you get saved?? Sinning is the only way to lose your salvation right? And people sin daily, so how many times do you have to be saved in a day??

No, the sinner can repent and someone who turns to God in repentance is not a backslider.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No, the sinner can repent and someone who turns to God in repentance is not a backslider.
.

not true. Every believer at some point back slides. But repentance is the answer. You cannot lose your salvation once God has called you.

 

[Cooper]

not true. Every believer at some point back slides. But repentance is the answer. You cannot lose your salvation once God has called you.

A backslider is someone who has a change of heart. They turn their back on God deliberately and knowingly and become agnostic, never to return.

This is different from someone who, lets say gets bored with church and cannot be bothered to go.
.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

A backslider is someone who has a change of heart. They turn their back on God deliberately and knowingly and become agnostic, never to return.

This is different from someone who, lets say gets bored with church and cannot be bothered to go.
.

you dont know what a back slider is. This is why i asked you earlier to explain it, and now i see you dont know. What denomination do you belong to??? Cant be presbyterian or baptist. Im starting to wonder if you’re even protestant.