Salvation Not Guaranteed By Faith + Works

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

In other words: the Lord's statement targets believers-- and not just your
average rank and file pew warmers either, no, rather, it targets the cream of
the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their
accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their
dedication-- believers who help with disaster relief, operate orphanages and
hostels, contribute to charity, preach to crowds, are model citizens, pastors,
deacons, and Sunday school teachers; viz: they dot all the I's and cross all
the Tee's yet fail to apprehend the one thing in life that really matters:
Christ's acceptance.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Hashe]

The key issue in the passage you quote, is that Jesus said, 'I never knew you'.
Knowing in a Hebrew context means experiential knowledge. How does one have experiential knowledge of someone - you have relationship with them.
It isn't just knowing about God and Jesus, but rather having a personal relationship with Jesus.
John 17:3, and this is eternal life that you know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

 

[IBeMe]

Webers_Home : Salvation Not Guaranteed By Faith + Works

Why did you ignore the previous scripture?

If you don't doeth what God says to do, Jesus says you won't enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

These folks talked the talk.

"have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

But they didn't walk the walk.

They put on a good show.

But Jesus said, "no go."

"depart from me, ye that work iniquity"

Why did you ignore the next verse?

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Everything is going to be OK for those that actually do what Jesus says to do.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jesus has good plans for His friends.

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Webers_Home : In other words: the Lord's statement targets believers

should have kept reading ...

"heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not"

.

 

[KingJ]

.
†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

In other words: the Lord's statement targets believers-- and not just your
average rank and file pew warmers either, no, rather, it targets the cream of
the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their
accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their
dedication-- believers who help with disaster relief, operate orphanages and
hostels, contribute to charity, preach to crowds, are model citizens, pastors,
deacons, and Sunday school teachers; viz: they dot all the I's and cross all
the Tee's yet fail to apprehend the one thing in life that really matters:
Christ's acceptance.

Buen Camino
/

Sure the works in Matt 7:22 are vanity. But what of James 1:27?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

.
†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

In other words: the Lord's statement targets believers-- and not just your
average rank and file pew warmers either, no, rather, it targets the cream of
the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their
accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their
dedication-- believers who help with disaster relief, operate orphanages and
hostels, contribute to charity, preach to crowds, are model citizens, pastors,
deacons, and Sunday school teachers; viz: they dot all the I's and cross all
the Tee's yet fail to apprehend the one thing in life that really matters:
Christ's acceptance.

Buen Camino
/

Jesus said "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called the works these people did "iniquity" in verse 23. So they were doing works of iniquity - works of unrighteousness instead of "working righteousness" Acts 10:35, not submitting unto the righteousness (commandments) of God, Rom 10:3. So they were lost unbelievers, workers of iniquity.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Jesus said "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" will enter
the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called the works these people did "iniquity" in
verse 23.

Well; that's just it. I'm having trouble seeing evil in what those people do.
How is it iniquity to prophesy in Jesus' name? How is it iniquity to cast out
demons in his name? How is it iniquity to do many wonderful works in his
name? How is none of that the will of his Father which is in heaven?

Buen Camino
/

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

.
Jesus said "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" will enter
the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called the works these people did "iniquity" in
verse 23.

Well; that's just it. I'm having trouble seeing evil in what those people do.
How is it iniquity to prophesy in Jesus' name? How is it iniquity to cast out
demons in his name? How is it iniquity to do many wonderful works in his
name? How is none of that the will of his Father which is in heaven?

Buen Camino
/

Those things they were doing they were doing without Chris't's authority. They may have been prophesying, but prophesying false things, not authorized, sanctioned by Christ. I see from time to time some of these "TV evangelists" who claim that what they are saying and doing is in the name of the Lord. But they are nothing but false teachers, teaching things not authorized by Christ claiming to do things they are not able to do in the name of the Lord.

Jesus said "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:"

Those in Mt 7:22 were not doing what the Lord said to do to enter the kingdom. The Lord requires a faithful obedience to enter the kingdom of heaven, not prophesying or casting out devils.....the Lord sets, authorizes the entrance requirements into the kingdom of heaven and not these men in what they were doing.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Ernest T. Bass said:
Those things they were doing they were doing without Chris't's authority.
They may have been prophesying, but prophesying false things, not
authorized, sanctioned by Christ. I see from time to time some of these "TV
evangelists" who claim that what they are saying and doing is in the name of
the Lord. But they are nothing but false teachers, teaching things not
authorized by Christ claiming to do things they are not able to do in the
name of the Lord.

I honestly don't think the Christians targeted by Matt 7:22-23 are hucksters
and crooks. Their tone seems to suggest that they will be sincerely shocked
and dismayed; viz: stunned that Jesus wants nothing to do with them; which
is a reaction that one might expect from conscientious believers like
Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and outstanding missionaries like Mother
Teresa.

I'm not alleging that Witnesses and Mormons and Mother Teresa are workers
of iniquity. I'm just using their dedication as an example of the kinds of
believers who could be expected to exhibit incredulity in response to Jesus
giving them the cold shoulder.

Buen Camino
/

 

[KingJ]

This really doesn't require much thought. Just need to face reality.

Never been in church and heard 'brethren' boasting how they cast out demons / healed the sick and prophecied? The odds of vanity over humility / submission to Christ are 99:1. But....if someone was doing James 1:27 / selfless acts...like helping an old lady change a light bulb....who would even listen? Hence the odds of vanity over submission are 0/100. It is a no brainer.

Jesus would never say ''these people helped the elderly and orphans in their affliction and I will say to them 'I do not know know you''. NO! That is why the best means of preaching to those in other religions is to challenge them to judge themselves / approve more of truly selfless acts as it is = James 4:8.
Scripture like James 5:14, Matt 6:3, Luke 6:35 and Matt 19:30 is still a mystery to many ''Christians''.

James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Matt 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great
Matt 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

 

[IBeMe]

Webers_Home :
Well; that's just it. I'm having trouble seeing evil in what those people do.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

We have to surrender to the Word and walk in the Word to bring forth good fruit.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

We must walk in obedience to abide in God's love and be able to bear good fruit.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Then it is God's work being done through willing vessels.

God's work = good fruit.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end ...

.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

.
Ernest T. Bass said:
Those things they were doing they were doing without Chris't's authority.
They may have been prophesying, but prophesying false things, not
authorized, sanctioned by Christ. I see from time to time some of these "TV
evangelists" who claim that what they are saying and doing is in the name of
the Lord. But they are nothing but false teachers, teaching things not
authorized by Christ claiming to do things they are not able to do in the
name of the Lord.

I honestly don't think the Christians targeted by Matt 7:22-23 are hucksters
and crooks. Their tone seems to suggest that they will be sincerely shocked
and dismayed; viz: stunned that Jesus wants nothing to do with them; which
is a reaction that one might expect from conscientious believers like
Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and outstanding missionaries like Mother
Teresa.

I'm not alleging that Witnesses and Mormons and Mother Teresa are workers
of iniquity. I'm just using their dedication as an example of the kinds of
believers who could be expected to exhibit incredulity in response to Jesus
giving them the cold shoulder.

Buen Camino
/

If they were disciples and doing the Father's will to enter the kingdom of heaven, Jesus would not have said they were workers of iniquity and He never knew them. So they were not doing what God authorized, they were not doing God's will but following their own will.

Not doing the will of the Father is how you end up with thousands of religious groups that contradict each other yet somehow they are all supposedly biblically correct. Just simply doing good works will not save anyone getting them into the kingdom of heaven, it takes an obedient faith.

 

[IBeMe]

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[williemac]

.
Jesus said "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" will enter
the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called the works these people did "iniquity" in
verse 23.

Well; that's just it. I'm having trouble seeing evil in what those people do.
How is it iniquity to prophesy in Jesus' name? How is it iniquity to cast out
demons in his name? How is it iniquity to do many wonderful works in his
name? How is none of that the will of his Father which is in heaven?

Buen Camino
/

This is very simple. James reminded his readers that if one should fail on any one point of the law, he will be declared guilty of the whole law. Do you not recall that the entire human race has been declared sinful and unrighteous? How is it that you cannot relate to the unsaved being judged as sinners? These are unsaved people.

1Cor.8:3 states that if anyone loves God, this one is also know by Him. The clue in the OP passage is, as another member has already pointed out..."I never knew you" . Jesus is speaking of those whom He never knew. Never means never. It doesn't mean "used to know you", or "knew you at one time, but not any more". Anyone not born again falls under that category of not ever having been known by Jesus. And such will be judged as workers of iniquity. The key is in the new birth. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Gal.5:6).. This is the will of the Father: Faith working through love!. " For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation" (Gal.6:15). This is the will of the Father. Believe on Jesus and love one another, as He gave us commandment (1John 3:23). All the obedience in the world and doing all the good works in the world will not be enough without faith and without love. Without love, it will all be as a loud noise. Without faith, it will be useless for eternal life.

Scripture interprets itself. Math.7:22,23, must be understood through the filter of the gospel.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

.
†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

In other words: the Lord's statement targets believers-- and not just your
average rank and file pew warmers either, no, rather, it targets the cream of
the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their
accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their
dedication-- believers who help with disaster relief, operate orphanages and
hostels, contribute to charity, preach to crowds, are model citizens, pastors,
deacons, and Sunday school teachers; viz: they dot all the I's and cross all
the Tee's yet fail to apprehend the one thing in life that really matters:
Christ's acceptance.

Buen Camino
/

Buen,

The scripture agrees with what you say, but Jesus was speaking to those under the law. "In that day" refers to judgment day, and that happened at the end of the age they lived in. The age of Law.

Jesus knows us, Christians, when we are born again. How could he not know his children?