Salvation Through Baptism ???

[BreadOfLife]

Marymoog, yourself, and the rest of CC have blasphemed and twisted the words of God concerning 1 Timothy 3:15 and many other verses.
Jesus declared in John 14:6 that He is the way, the truth, and the life... Scripture does not say the Catholic church is the ground and pillar of truth. You would like it to say that though!

First, take off the log/beam in your eyes before you speak against others.

To God Be The Glory

There is no "beam" to be removed because nobody is judging anybody here.

I simply asked - as did @Marymog - if the Catholic church is NOT the pillar and foundation of truth spoken of in 1 Tim. 3:15 - which Protestant sect IS. There are literally tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects - so WHICH one is it??

BOTH @Marymog and I pointed out that Matt. 18:16-18 states that Christ's CHURCH is our final Authority on earth.
So please tell me WHICH Protestant sect it is . . .

 

[Illuminator]

So you admit that someone before Luther taught faith alone. Thank you!

The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:39; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. So I am not adding anything. It is what it is. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

A good work can only be a good work if it is done by the grace IN CHRIST ALONE. Changing the meaning of "works" is a straw man fallacy. Good works are "good" only if they are bathed in God's grace. You commit this error constantly.

 

[Mr C]

There is no "beam" to be removed because nobody is judging anybody here.

I simply asked - as did @Marymog - if the Catholic church is NOT the pillar and foundation of truth spoken of in 1 Tim. 3:15 - which Protestant sect IS. There are literally tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects - so WHICH one is it??

BOTH @Marymog and I pointed out that Matt. 18:16-18 states that Christ's CHURCH is our final Authority on earth.
So please tell me WHICH Protestant sect it is . . .

The body of Christ (Eph.4:12)

The Church of Christ (Rom.16:16)

Check out - Apologetics Press

 

[Illuminator]

Marymoog, yourself, and the rest of CC have blasphemed and twisted the words of God concerning 1 Timothy 3:15 and many other verses.

2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still taught today. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

• Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
• Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
• Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
• Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach,
and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The body of Christ (Eph.4:12)

The Church of Christ (Rom.16:16)

Check out - Apologetics Press

Not sure how this answers the question, though.

@Joseph77's position was that the Catholic Church is NOT that Church.
Our question to him was WHICH of the tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects IS it, then?

 

[kcnalp]

Or it is a clear misunderstanding of the word of God and the POWER of God.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (Mt.22:29)

Jesus is God and could forgive sins anyway He wanted while on earth. (Mark 2:5)

Just as a man can give away his possessions as long as he lives.

Once the man dies his WILL decides where his possessions will go. (Heb.7:12 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10)

Your water baptism won't wash away sins. ONLY the Blood of Jesus can do that. The very Book you are quoting was paid for by His Blood.

Mark 14:24
24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

 

[kcnalp]

Think!!! You can be baptized every day of your life and still go to hell!!!

Amen!

 

[Joseph77]

The very Book you are quoting was paid for by His Blood.

??
Where is this written or Said by the Creator, By Jesus, or By any of His messengers or angels ?

 

[Joseph77]

Study Bible
John 4 (unknown to worldly and carnal churches, or apostate ones)
Jesus and the Samaritan Woman
…23 But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” 25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When He comes, He will explain everything to us.”…
Berean Study Bible · Download

 

[Tong2020]

I was given spiritual discernment in my response .

Perhaps, that is spiritual discernment for you. Are you saying that you have just then shown us the kind of spirit you have and the kind of spiritual discernment you have? Well,... as you say then..

Tong
R0872

 

[kcnalp]

??
Where is this written or Said by the Creator, By Jesus, or By any of His messengers or angels ?

Guess you missed this.

Mark 14:24
24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many.

 

[Joseph77]

Guess you missed this.

Mark 14:24
24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many.

No, (at first maybe, then looked right before or after I posted, and saw it).

That's not what I asked you about though.

 

[kcnalp]

No, (at first maybe, then looked right before or after I posted, and saw it).

That's not what I asked you about though.

I read your comment again. I guess I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

[Joseph77]

The very Book you are quoting

The Book did not need, and did not have a need for, being atoned for.

 

[kcnalp]

The Book did not need, and did not have a need for, being atoned for.

I didn't imply anything like that. Jesus paid for the New Covenant with His Blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood.

 

[Tong2020]

Which ONE of those genuine believers/born again Christians is the pillar and foundation of truth that we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:17?

Tell us about the pillar and foundation of truth. Are you referring to 1 Timothy 3:15? If so, what does the verse tell you regarding the pillar and foundation of truth? Have you not said in one of your post, that the Roman Catholic church is the pillar and foundation of truth? I don't see the passage saying what you claim there. Why do you teach that which is not written in scriptures?

Tong
R0873

 

[Joseph77]

The very Book you are quoting was paid for by His Blood.

That's not covenant there. That's why I questioned it.

The Book did not need, and did not have a need for, being atoned for.

You did not imply Book, that's true.... you said it directly.

I didn't imply anything like that. Jesus paid for the New Covenant with His Blood.
......

 

[kcnalp]

That's not covenant there. That's why I questioned it.

You did not imply Book, that's true.... you said it directly.

Matthew - Revelation isn't the New Covenant?

 

[Tong2020]

*It is not @mailmandan who said "What saves people is repentance AND BAPTISM.", @marksman

That statement is true. Repent means to turn to another direction and water baptism is the "like figure" that saves (1 Peter 3:21). You do know about "types and figures" correct?

For example, Moses is a type and figure of Jesus Christ, in that he led Ancient Israel to the Promised Land, just as Jesus as the Shepherd, is leading His people to heaven who are born in different times in history. There are many examples of this in Scripture. Shall I continue? I guess not. I believe you got the gist.

Scripture speaks of only one baptism that saves and that is the "washing of regeneration" found in Titus 3:5.

To God Be The Glory

The statement "What saves people is repentance AND BAPTISM.", is true to those who believe it to be true. And I am not one of them. For I believe that there is no work, no thing and no person (except Jesus Christ), nothing whatsoever that could save man, but God; and that God saves through faith. And so, if there is anything through which God will save me, it is through faith. There is no reason for me to believe any other way through which God will save me. From the beginning, God had saved people through faith.

Salvation is not through water Baptism as you believe. It is through faith. And that had always been His way of salvation, yesterday and while there is now.

Titus 3:5 does not even speak about water baptism.

Tong
R0874

 

[kcnalp]

Repentance and belief in Jesus is what saves us with His Blood atonement, not water baptism. I was baptized in water when I found out it was a commandment. But I was already saved by His Blood.