Sanctification is an ongoing process
- Thread starter Curtis
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People struggle because they don't understand JESUS....and sadly... it's the CHRISTIANS that are doing all the damage.
Just saying.
It absolutely OFFENDS me when someone is CLEARLY and DESPERATELY crying out for GOD and the Pharisees all start packing the place.
Many are so terrified that they think that if they have to even think about what Jesus did, that's works and they may get punished or worse! I used to be there...it's a terrible place.
I would like to discuss this with you... but not here on this thread. I'm interested in what you have to say about this.
Psalm 51:10 is what I pray everyday.
“Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.”
— Psalms 51:10 (KJV)
“Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.”
— Psalms 51:10 (KJV)
But the fact of Paul’s many w@rnings to the brethren about not being deceived about living a sinful lifestyle as a believer, because if they do they won’t make it to heaven, is ample proof of the believers daily choice to walk in the light, or walk in the flesh.
Paul even stated he has to subjugate his flesh daily, lest he become a reprobate, and warned the brethren to examine themselves, whether they are in the faith, or are reprobates.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
He warns that some of the church that think they’re in the faith can actually have become reprobates.
The word reprobates is ADOKIMOS in the Greek, which becomes important in the verse where Paul himself says he has to subjugate his flesh daily, lest after preaching salvation to others, he end up a castaway.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring itinto subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.
The word castaway is also ADOKIMOS in the Greek - reprobate - castaway and rejected by God.
G96 (Strong)
ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless(literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
Total KJV occurrences: 8
Paul said he could end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily.
Albert Barnes exegetes the verse:
“The simple idea of Paul is, that he was afraid that he should be disapproved, rejected, cast off; that it would appear, after all, that he had no religion, and would then be cast away as unfit to enter into heaven”.
John Wesley also exegetes 1 Corinthians 9:27:
This single text may give us a just notion of the scriptural doctrine of election and reprobation; and clearly shows us, that particular persons are not in holy writ represented as elected absolutely and unconditionally to eternal life, or predestinated absolutely and unconditionally to eternal death; but that believers in general are elected to enjoy the Christian privileges on earth; which if they abuse, those very elect persons will become reprobate. St. Paul was certainly an elect person, if ever there was one; and yet he declares it was possible he himself might become a reprobate. Nay, he actually would have become such, if he had not thus kept his body under, even though he had been so long an elect person, a Christian, and an apostle.
Paul never taught unconditional eternal security - in fact he taught the opposite.
Paul said he could end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
I now see curtis’ reasons for not believing in OSAS. He doesnt get that if a person is truly saved, they wont do all those evil things paul talked about. OSAS is Biblical. Curtis believes in what i call easy salvation. If something is easy to get, then its easy to lose. None of that is Biblical.
If a person claims to believe, but lives wickedly, they arent saved.
Titus 1:16 says They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
once saved, ALWAYS saved. This is why works do matter. They are proof of salvation. If a person lives well, but has even 1 besetting sin, that is proof that they arent saved. Im not saying sinless perfection, but rather a person who knowingly commits sin on a habitual basis.
If a person claims to believe, but lives wickedly, they arent saved.
Titus 1:16 says They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
once saved, ALWAYS saved. This is why works do matter. They are proof of salvation. If a person lives well, but has even 1 besetting sin, that is proof that they arent saved. Im not saying sinless perfection, but rather a person who knowingly commits sin on a habitual basis.
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
"Nobody grows into holiness". The Bible completely disagrees with you:
"but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen." - 2 Pet. 3:18
Peter didn't say just talk about grace or think about grace. He said grow in grace and knowledge. Holiness is not a location; it's a status a person must grow and remain in. Look at what Luke records about Christ's childhood:
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." - Luk. 2:52
The OT says the same exact thing about the prophet Samuel and Samson:
"So Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him and let none of his words fall to the ground." - 1 Sam. 3:19
"So the woman bore a son and called his name Samson; and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him. And the Spirit of the LORD began to move upon him at Mahaneh Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol. " - Jdg. 13:24-25
Paul also makes it abundantly clear that holiness is a status:
"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love," - Eph. 1:4
"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,"- Eph. 5:27
"For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;" - Heb. 7:26
Small words have a lot of meaning. Can you grow INTO grace? Of course not. But you can grow once you have received grace IN that grace.
The same goes for holiness. You can't grow INTO holiness as this is by grace. But once you are walking like Jesus walked, you grow in character until you become like Him in your way of thinking.
Much of the doctrine taught in today's churches are just smoke and mirrors. A person needs to be baptized in the Spirit to walk in holiness. No one ever grows INTO the baptism of the Spirit.
What is lacking are people who walk IN Christ.
Look at the modern doctrine of the cross. It's all about history, the past, and what Jesus did in your service. The bible teaches that people die IN Christ so that they can be raised IN Christ. There are so few that understand that and have experienced the grace of that that the correct doctrine is no longer taught...even though it is plainly taught in the bible.
For people nowadays being crucified with Christ is by a pretend religious imputation that has no power over sin. The same goes for the idea of growing INTO holiness. If you start off without holiness...then you will end up the same way...until you receive the instant gift of grace.
So the irony is that those who yell grace, grace the loudest don't know what grace is.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
We are initially sanctified in which we are set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus..
Yet we also see progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. In 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, we read - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.
So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, an ongoing process of growth in practical, progressive holiness which becomes increasingly evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives as we continue to grow in grace and mature in Christ.
Yet we also see progressive or ongoing sanctification in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. In 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4, we read - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor.
So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, an ongoing process of growth in practical, progressive holiness which becomes increasingly evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives as we continue to grow in grace and mature in Christ.
Although you will never admit it, most believers are trying to learn to be better people on their own. And that is just fine. Grace works as both time AND purpose. We are given time to grow in character and slowly become better people. But that standard has always existed. It is an Old Testament standard.
But New Testament grace is miraculous. Under THAT grace a person walks in supernatural power so the person is already fully pure and holy. What is being learned or adopted is the CHARACTER that is required to STAY in a walk on that level of selflessness.
But people are free to misunderstand the gospel.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
What do you believe the gospel is and what do you believe it means to believe the gospel? (Romans 1:16)
Thank you for being polite about it. It means a lot!
This!
I think this that is so clear and it's what I believe.
The Born again person has a regenerated heart that desires to please God. So we are not "all sinners". Some are Saints.
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