Satan - a bitter, jealous adversary of Job

[breathofdesire]

Not a bad post!

If only you could prove from Job the Satan (or adversary) is a supernatural evil Being. If you read your post again, one might suggest the adversaries were Job's friends.

Lets assume for a moment your Satan is a demonic evil creature....

1. Why would this creature only have concern for the materials things surrounding Job? God set's Job's character and rightesouness before the adversary (ies) but notice what the adversary focuses on?

Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

a. Why would God think Satan would even care about one of His childrens righteousness? God has nothing to prove to a demonic being?
b. Why would the demonic being care about Job's earthly possessions? (Only Human's would - jealousy, envy etc!)
c. If Job is proved to faulter there is no victory for the adversary, as Job is still God's son.

The idea of a faniciful evil being wreaks of "mysticism" and "ancient mythology"...lets finally call it for what it is.

And please ALL no more quoting Revelation to prove your demonic beings existence - its a Dragon with similar symolbolism to the creatures in Dan 7 - no more please the ignorance is overwhelming - where in this forum has anyone ever tried pushing the idea Daniel 7's creatures are literal Beings? Why on earht would you do this to Revelation (face palm) If you are going to prove your demonic creature is real show us from Genesis! But already one believer has honestly said "the Satan is not there!"

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Adversary also came among them."

An Adversary of Job came among the sons of God with evil motives and intentions toward Job - No doubt like Cain toward Abel.

F2F

We do have a adversary called "Sin" sin interrupts our progress as a species. It effects the land around us, as God pointed out. It may be that when people are together reveling in sin, that nature takes on a form.

 

[breathofdesire]

In a worship sense as before.

If the Bible was an easy book to understand, I'd be a biblical professor by now.

We all would be.

 

[Job]

Proving the demonic being from Job is proving difficult - don't want to chime in with more than semantics?

In your zeal to show everyone how clever you are, you don't even realize you've committed blasphemy.

For all the spectators who watched the sufferings of Job there is one absolute truth concerning his trials, which all knew without any shadow of a doubt.

That it was God who brought the evil upon Job and not a supernatural fictitious being.

 

[mjrhealth]

In your zeal to show everyone how clever you are, you don't even realize you've committed blasphemy.

So God and the devil are one and the same, the one who loves mankind also hates him, the one who came to give us life is also set to destroy us. is that what we really think of God??? God brought no evil upon Job, that was all by the enemy.

 

[breathofdesire]

So God and the devil are one and the same, the one who loves mankind also hates him, the one who came to give us life is also set to destroy us. is that what we really think of God??? God brought no evil upon Job, that was all by the enemy.

Well our Lord must take steps sometimes to punish us if we continue to love wickedness. Does he do this by doing good to those that are evil?

What about those who think they are good, how does God deal with them?

 

[mjrhealth]

Well our Lord must take steps sometimes to punish us if we continue to love wickedness

REally, so i get we are all doomed, becasue we should all be punished guess hell is going to be full.

 

[breathofdesire]

REally, so i get we are all doomed, becasue we should all be punished guess hell is going to be full.

@mjrhealth
God really does punish us if we deserve it. The Bible says that he does, and I understand why.

 

[face2face]

In your zeal to show everyone how clever you are, you don't even realize you've committed blasphemy.

Job
No blasphemy here.
I am trying to show you the One who formed the light, and created darkness: I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things - Isaiah 45:7
There is much the Lord does which you may not know and yet He is Just, Righteous and Holy.
F2F
p.s. this response was in relation to your offence at Job 42:11 where it clearly states God brought the evil upon Job.

 

[face2face]

REally, so i get we are all doomed, becasue we should all be punished guess hell is going to be full.

In time we will dispell of this idea also.

 

[breathofdesire]

In time we will dispell of this idea also.

@face2face
Are you having trouble with certain beliefs like this.

You can be honest, are you losing faith in the God of the Bible? Are you finding it difficult to accept some of Gods actions.

 

[face2face]

So God and the devil are one and the same, the one who loves mankind also hates him, the one who came to give us life is also set to destroy us. is that what we really think of God??? God brought no evil upon Job, that was all by the enemy.

Lets continue...

Job's words provide ample understanding of Who is bringing the trouble against Job...Job is under no delusion here:

Job 1:21 The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. (Job 2:10)
Job 6:4 The arrows of the Almighty are within me.
Job 9:17 He crushes me multiplies my wounds without cause.
Job 10:8 Your hands made me yet You would destroy me.
Job 19:6 Know then that God has wronged me.
Job 27:2 As God lives, who has taken away my justice.

Not once does he mention an adversary or even the possibilty of such a being even existing!

Why did God permit this great evil to come upon the righteous Job?

1:12—So the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

1. To prove the Adversary wrong and to induce him (and everyone like him) to change their ways and conform their lives to the example of His righteous servant Job. A suffering sinner could never have convinced the adversary of the need for reform.
2. Because God knew that Job would hold fast and be perfected through suffering.

If such a Satanic Being was to exist it could never change and would make the whole conversation narrative fall over having no purpose...however we know God achieve His end. Job 42:11

 

[face2face]

@face2face
Are you having trouble with certain beliefs like this.

You can be honest, are you losing faith in the God of the Bible? Are you finding it difficult to accept some of Gods actions.

Not at all. Hell is a subject we will get to no doubt. Many Christians are confused about some matters which are easily explained.
Be honest...have those Satan believers here shown a sound understanding of their beliefs? Have they shown from the book of Job sufficient evidence to prove a supernatural being exists? This discussion may not end well....but at lest I’ve tried - God gives the increase.

 

[breathofdesire]

Not at all. Hell is a subject we will get to no doubt. Many Christians are confused about some matters which are easily explained.
Be honest...have those Satan believers here shown a sound understanding of their beliefs? Have they shown from the book of Job sufficient evidence to prove a supernatural being exists? This discussion may not end well....but at lest I’ve tried - God gives the increase.

Well I am over joyed that you have answers. Answers that are satisfactory for you. As for your question, many years past I was ravished by many believing Christians. Because of it I lost my faith and hated God, I wanted to kill my own God.

But the Lord eventually broke through my broken and stoney heart. Then I realised that the problem was me, that I was putting people before God. I desired the praise of people and not him.

After that all the pieces fell together.

 

[face2face]

We do have a adversary called "Sin" sin interrupts our progress as a species. It effects the land around us, as God pointed out. It may be that when people are together reveling in sin, that nature takes on a form.

In the context of Job it was essential Job be a righteous man who did not have any visible sins. Remember those who are living honourable lives are often the ones seriously persecuted by the wicked.

Remember the book of Job is designed to firstly show the character of God, to illustrate and justify His dealings in chastening the righteous. To exhibit in Job the perfecting of a son of God and to indicate in that perfecting work, the nature, place and function of the adversary and the mediator.

 

[breathofdesire]

In the context of Job it was essential Job be a righteous man who did not have any visible sins. Remember those who are living honourable lives are often the ones seriously persecuted by the wicked.

Remember the book of Job is designed to firstly show the character of God, to illustrate and justify His dealings in chastening the righteous. To exhibit in Job the perfecting of a son of God and to indicate in that perfecting work, the nature, place and function of the adversary and the mediator.

Job wasn't perfect, there was some fault with him along the way. He was secure in his reparations towards God. I believe that Job comes from a time before God gave the law to Moses. So something was going on there, for him to be punished by God (Or tested)

 

[face2face]

Well I am over joyed that you have answers. Answers that are satisfactory for you. As for your question, many years past I was ravished by many believing Christians. Because of it I lost my faith and hated God, I wanted to kill my own God.

But the Lord eventually broke through my broken and stoney heart. Then I realised that the problem was me, that I was putting people before God. I desired the praise of people and not him.

After that all the pieces fell together.

Thanks for sharing.
BTW I dont have all the answers...this book is one i've studied for many years, so I have a few - i've helped many Christians over the years overcome this false teaching and like any error the lie just gets bigger. An example of this not apprecaiting how far God will go in chastening his children to improve them.

Hebrews 12:5-11

 

[face2face]

Job wasn't perfect, there was some fault with him along the way. He was secure in his reparations towards God. I believe that Job comes from a time before God gave the law to Moses. So something was going on there, for him to be punished by God (Or tested)

I agree with this.

Here is the tn notes on the word perfect which is found in the AV.

tn The word תָּם (tam) has been translated “perfect” (so KJV, ASV). The verbal root תָּמַם (tamam) means “to be blameless, complete.” The word is found in Gen 25:27 where it describes Jacob as “even-tempered.” It also occurs in Ps 64:5 (64:4 ET) and Prov 29:10. The meaning is that a person or a thing is complete, perfect, flawless. It does not mean that he was sinless, but that he was wholeheartedly trying to please God, that he had integrity and was blameless before God.

 

[breathofdesire]

Thanks for sharing.
BTW I dont have all the answers...this book is one i've studied for many years, so I have a few - i've helped many Christians over the years overcome this false teaching and like any error the lie just gets bigger. An example of this not apprecaiting how far God will go in chastening his children to improve them.

Hebrews 12:5-11

Well I'll be interested to hear your point of view. If you decide to share what you've discovered.

 

[face2face]

When trouble comes into our lives how many of us discern this as possibly coming from God? They may not be in the same severity as Job...but I know many have suffered many things and lived to tell their experience.

What we know about God and His relationship with Job is that God taught Job though these trials and Job was intended to discern God’s hand in all of them:

1. The Sabeans attack [Man] 3. The Chaldeans attack [Man]
2. The lighting strikes [God] 4. The tornado strikes [God]

Four time "I alone have escaped to tell you.” God was doing it—the signs were there, as they often are for us in our distress and affliction. We can conclude that—

1. We are being disciplined harshly and unfairly, which we don’t deserve and God has turned against us; or
2. An all-wise and loving Father is chastening us for our essential good and for the benefit of others, and we need to patiently endure and learn to cooperate with Him.

In our darkest moments God can become our anchor. Hebrews 6:19

 

[tabletalk]

I agree with this.

Here is the tn notes on the word perfect which is found in the AV.

tn The word תָּם (tam) has been translated “perfect” (so KJV, ASV). The verbal root תָּמַם (tamam) means “to be blameless, complete.” The word is found in Gen 25:27 where it describes Jacob as “even-tempered.” It also occurs in Ps 64:5 (64:4 ET) and Prov 29:10. The meaning is that a person or a thing is complete, perfect, flawless. It does not mean that he was sinless, but that he was wholeheartedly trying to please God, that he had integrity and was blameless before God.

In Job 1:22. "In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong."
So far, every translation I've checked uses the word *sin*. What am I missing here? Seems like Job was sinless for a period of time.