Saved By Grace Through FAITH ...

[CharismaticLady]

To me that’s more a missionary spreading of the gospel the apostles spoke in foreign languages

Acts 2 at Pentecost

Acts 2:
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Did you see it? Each person heard THEM speak in his own tongue. In other words, they heard supernaturally, the only way anyone can understand speaking in tongues. You must first read the rule. 1 Corinthians14:2, and understand it, and then you can read Acts 2 with clarity. Otherwise, you will try to change the meaning of the rule and twist it to your own human understanding. Both the speaking and the hearing were supernatural.

 

[CharismaticLady]

All you have shown is that there is more than one gift of tongues from God!
I believe that @CharismaticLady already knew that!

No, Amadeus. The devout Jews listening heard supernaturally, not naturally. The rule is 1 Corinthians 14:2. It cannot be contradicted.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No, Amadeus. The devout Jews listening heard supernaturally, not naturally. The rule is 1 Corinthians 14:2. It cannot be contradicted.

1 Corinthians 14 starts off about speaking in tongues personally vs within a congregation....but as you read further Paul is thankful that he speaks tongues more than they do...
1 Corinthians 14 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹³ Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
¹⁴ For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
¹⁵ What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
¹⁶ Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
¹⁷ For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
¹⁸ I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
¹⁹ Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
²⁰ Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
²¹ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
²² Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
²³ If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
²⁴ But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
²⁵ And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

I think the lesson in chapter 14 is to use wisdom in operating in the gift of tongues.

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 Corinthians 14 starts off about speaking in tongues personally vs within a congregation....but as you read further Paul is thankful that he speaks tongues more than they do...
1 Corinthians 14 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹³ Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
¹⁴ For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
¹⁵ What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
¹⁶ Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
¹⁷ For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
¹⁸ I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
¹⁹ Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
²⁰ Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
²¹ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
²² Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
²³ If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
²⁴ But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
²⁵ And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

I think the lesson in chapter 14 is to use wisdom in operating in the gift of tongues.

Yes, but what I was talking about is Acts 2.

 

[Curtis]

Abraham was declared righteous when he believed god many Many years before he offered up his son.

That’s the assumption- however Abraham didn’t really believe Gods promise that he and Sarah were going to have a son, else he wouldn’t have had sex with the maid, Hagar, to have that son.
According to scripture Abraham wasn’t justified, or made righteous, until he was willing to sacrifice Isaac, and that coupling of faith with a work of obedience was what did it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That’s the assumption- however Abraham didn’t really believe Gods promise that he and Sarah were going to have a son, else he wouldn’t have had sex with the maid, Hagar, to have that son.
According to scripture Abraham wasn’t justified, or made righteous, until he was willing to sacrifice Isaac, and that coupling of faith with a work of obedience was what did it.

This is not true

Gen 15 said Abraham believed God and he accredited to him as righteousness

paul in Romans 4 says the same thing,

abrahams believe was about the promise in Gen 15.

Abraham committing adultry was what most men would do if they get permission from their wife to sleep with a young maiden,

 

[theefaith]

Did you see it? Each person heard THEM speak in his own tongue. In other words, they heard supernaturally, the only way anyone can understand speaking in tongues. You must first read the rule. 1 Corinthians14:2, and understand it, and then you can read Acts 2 with clarity. Otherwise, you will try to change the meaning of the rule and twist it to your own human understanding. Both the speaking and the hearing were supernatural.

yes it’s Pentecost the spirit is given

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No they didn't. No man can understand tongues except God, so not even foreigners could understand tongues by themselves. 1 Cor. 14:2

An interpreter chosen by God to be there to interpret can understand what is being said....if there is nobody present to decipher , it is a sin to speak in tongues aloud....

 

[Curtis]

This is not true

Gen 15 said Abraham believed God and he accredited to him as righteousness

paul in Romans 4 says the same thing,

abrahams believe was about the promise in Gen 15.

Abraham committing adultry was what most men would do if they get permission from their wife to sleep with a young maiden,

Your mistake is assuming that Abraham believed God immediately- he obviously didn’t believe he and Sarah would have a child as God said - the text is clear on that.

Gen 16:2 And Sarai said to Abram, “Behold now, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Go in to my servant; it may be that I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

Did Abraham say, no, God said we two will have a child, and I believe that, so I won’t have a child with the maid? Obviously the answer is NO.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your mistake is assuming that Abraham believed God immediately- he obviously didn’t believe he and Sarah would have a child as God said - the text is clear on that.

Gen 16:2 And Sarai said to Abram, “Behold now, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Go in to my servant; it may be that I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

Did Abraham say, no, God said we two will have a child, and I believe that, so I won’t have a child with the maid? Obviously the answer is NO.

What mistake, it is right there in Gods word

Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. (justified)

This happened before abraham left his fathers house.

Paul agreed.

Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

 

[amadeus]

No, Amadeus. The devout Jews listening heard supernaturally, not naturally. The rule is 1 Corinthians 14:2. It cannot be contradicted.

As you will then...

 

[amadeus]

An interpreter chosen by God to be there to interpret can understand what is being said....if there is nobody present to decipher , it is a sin to speak in tongues aloud....

I would go slow in your declaration!

 

[CharismaticLady]

As you will then...

As I will then what???

 

[amadeus]

As I will then what???

Sorry sister, but when I saw your response my mind was blank. I recalled a bit of your walk with God so I believed in where you were and where God was leading you without being able to express it at that moment.

Logic does not always provide us with God's answer although some people seem to believe that it does!

So then as you will... when you are pursuing God's will! People have a will of their own. When it begins to coincide with God's will, we would be seeing a new person. That is, we would...IF, we had "eyes to see".

 

[CharismaticLady]

yes it’s Pentecost the spirit is given

You don't understand the point I was making. You said tongues was for preaching to foreigners as if they could understand the language that Paul spoke naturally, even though He didn't understand naturally. In Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, not only did they speak languages they didn't understand, but the foreign Jews understood supernaturally, not naturally as if the disciples were actually speaking their languages.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Sorry sister, but when I saw your response my mind was blank. I recalled a bit of your walk with God so I believed in where you were and where God was leading you without being able to express it at that moment.

Logic does not always provide us with God's answer although some people seem to believe that it does!

So then as you will... when you are pursuing God's will! People have a will of their own. When it begins to coincide with God's will, we would be seeing a new person. That is, we would...IF, we had "eyes to see".

I'll let this pass. I can't remember what led you to say what you did, so lost the whole train of thought.

 

[amadeus]

I'll let this pass. I can't remember what led your to say what you did, so lost the whole train of thought.

Me too. I would have to reread the thread probably and even that would be no guarantee of anything.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I would go slow in your declaration!

Why? It’s Biblical...

 

[amadeus]

Why? It’s Biblical...

Perhaps not everyone is off the milk. Perhaps not everyone knows or even believes all things exactly right as they should, but God seeing that they are striving and surrendering to Him may have mercy in spite of their shortcomings! God is the final judge for certain. He knows all things about all people. I do not!

 

[Tong2020]

"For the gospel does not expressly demand works of our own by which we become righteous and are saved; indeed it condemns such works. Rather the gospel demands faith in Christ: that He has overcome for us sin, death, and hell, and thus gives us righteousness, life, and salvation not through our works, but through His own works, death, and suffering, in order that we may avail ourselves of His death and victory as though we have done it ourselves." LUTHER

I have a somewhat different view. In my view I don’t see the gospel as demanding anything. The gospel is about what God had done for salvation, not about what one should do to be saved. For there is nothing that a man could do that would save himself. God is the Savior and man is the one who needs saving. For if there is something man can do to save himself, there was no need for God to do what He had done in Christ for salvation.

Let me explain myself a bit more. As with any news, it is no more of a report about what happened or is happening. When some news gets to the hearing of people, some understand it and others don’t. But either way, all only gets to believe or not. With regards the gospel, there is no difference in that respect. Now, obviously, what one understand the news is about and what it is, is only what he may or may not believe. However, there is a big difference with the gospel in some respect. Unlike any news, the gospel is one that is coming from God, and is spiritual or better yet, about God and the things of the Spirit of God. That being the nature of the gospel, the natural man can not know it, because it is spiritually discerned. He does not receive the gospel because it is foolishness to him. In other words, for one to understand the gospel, there is one thing that should take place first in and on the man. Something spiritual. And that is not something that he could do nor is his work, but God’s. I call that spiritual something as the quickening of the man’s spirit, which opens up his heart and spiritual eyes and ears.

Also, in my view, what the gospel says is not about something that one could avail or not by doing something, but is about something that one could only believe or not, concerning the Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

Those whose spirit are quickened, their hearts, ears and eyes having been opened by God, receives faith from God, that eventually move them in the spirit, resulting to their willful acceptance of the gospel and sincerely believe it. As such, they are saved by God, by grace through faith.

Tong
R3645