I don't see anything difficult to understand there, that before they ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil fall, Adam and Eve have no knowledge of good and evil.
Tong
R0432
Saved Or Predestined ???
- Thread starter Pianoworldstage
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Tong
R0432
Behold
Well-Known Member
It wasn't the "tree" that gave them any knowledge of "evil".
It was disobedience that brought them into bondage to the knowledge of evil.
Evil is more then sinning...Its a state of awareness OF Evil.
Well that's your opinion. But all three statements are not taught by scriptures.
Tong
R0434
That's interesting. How could Cain be saved from his sins by Jesus' death? Tell us.
Tong
R0435
Behold
Well-Known Member
Sure it is.
Its taught as "by one man's sin, many were made sinners".
"one man's sin", is based on one man's evil.
Being Evil, is the consequence of knowing evil, exactly as innocence is the consequence of not knowing evil.
A person is innocent UNTIL, they become conscious of it "sin", as you can't do it, unless you know it.
Jesus said...."you being EVIL, give gifts to your children". Matt 7:11
So, that is a universal application...."all" are evil. "ALL" are fallen. ect.
Your three statements are:
1. It wasn't the "tree" that gave them any knowledge of "evil".
2. It was disobedience that brought them into bondage to the knowledge of evil.
3. Evil is more then sinning...Its a state of awareness OF Evil.
As I pointed out, all three statements are not taught by scriptures. On #1, please show scriptures where it teaches that it was not the tree that gave them knowledge of evil. On #2, please show scriptures where it teaches that there is such a thing as bondage to the knowledge of evil. On #3, please show scriptures where it teaches that evil is a state of awareness of evil.
Tong
R0436
The same way you were, or I assume you were.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
I don't know if Cain was ever saved or not. We aren't told what happened after he died. I don't know of any evidence that he repented, but when God asked Cain “Where is Abel your brother?”, God already knew that Cain had just murdered Abel. The purpose of the question, was probably to give Cain the opportunity to admit his crime and to repent of it.
The issue is not whether Cain was saved or not. Rather the issue is in the question, since you contend that Jesus died for Cain:
How could Cain be saved from his sins by Jesus' death?
Tong
R0437
The same way anyone can. Obviously it works retroactively, or no one previous to the cross could be saved. I don't see how anyone can be responsible for anything but the light they are given. All being saved by Jesus blood doesn't mean that all have to know his name for example.
There's also the theory that Jesus actually preached to everyone who died before his human existence and brought them the gospel. But it's based on only a little scripture evidence, so I'm reluctant to go there.
RainAndIceCream
Active Member
I think this is, what? The third time after my initial statement in this thread wherein I have reiterated, and shall now for the final time, I never said God created Adam and Eve with the knowledge of good and evil.
Of course? Please sustain your proclamation with contextual scriptural proof. Thanks in advance. God bless.
OK, I admit I find that rather odd. I answered the question I am now accused of dodging? It must be Saturday.
There's always a reason to always choose joy.
RainAndIceCream
Active Member
That is true. It was not the tree but its fruit that bestowed upon Adam, by whom Sin entered the world, and Eve, knowledge of good and evil.
I never said you said that.
Please specify what proclamation are you referring to that you want for me to give scriptural proof, and I would gladly do so.
You said "Yes, God is holy and pure. He is also all that he said of himself in Isaiah 45:7-9."OK, I admit I find that rather odd. I answered the question I am now accused of dodging? It must be Saturday.
I asked "What do you want to imply by that?"
You answered "God is what he says he is."
I find it dodging to say in answer that what you imply by citing Isaiah 45:7-9, in the context that God is holy and pure, that God is what He says He is. If you don't want to admit that, I'll leave it at that. For the reader's sake, I post below what the passage says.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’
8 “Rain down, you heavens, from above,
And let the skies pour down righteousness;
Let the earth open, let them bring forth salvation,
And let righteousness spring up together.
I, the Lord, have created it.
9 “Woe to him who strives with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth!
Shall the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
Or shall your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
Tong
R0439
RainAndIceCream
Active Member
Then please stop repeating yourself concerning what Adam and Eve were not created to know, and for what has no relevance when you quote my posts. I look forward to it. If you scroll back to what you posted you will see my remark to what you proclaimed.
I think if you read all of Isaiah 45 you'll be less confused on the matter of my stating, God is all that he says he is.
Blessings.
I just did.
Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God" (Matthew 5:3).
Faith is dependence upon God.
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).
Did Cain seek him? It doesn't seem that way.
"By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks" (Hebrews 11:4).
God looked with favor on Abel and his offering" (Gen. 4:4). Abel was a righteous man. He had a right relationship with God. Did Abel know about Jesus, though? I don't think so. But he was obedient to what God had revealed to him.
John Owen says, "The faith of Abel was fixed on God not only as a Creator, but as a Redeemer. . ." His faith "testified in the kind of his sacrifice, which was by faith and blood . . . . The way of atonement, which was to be by blood, the blood of the promised Seed."
Speculation? Maybe, but God accepted Abel's offering, accepted Abel's heart.
When Cain's offering was rejected, he grew angry instead of repentant. That's the difference between a righteous man and a self righteous man.
But who knows? Perhaps when Cain was an outcast, he eventually repented and became a righteous man.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Sin didnt ender the would thru a piece of fruit, RainAndIceCream.
Sin was in the world before Adam showed up. Sin was in SATAN, who fell from Heaven because "sin-iniquity was found IN him", and so, He brought sin into the world, not Adam.
Adam brought loss of innocence, and a fallen Adamic nature into humanity, because he disobeyed God. This fallen nature, is the disconnection from God's Holy Spirit, that is mankind's LOST Condition.
The 2nd Adam, Jesus THE Christ= came to RESTORE the original spiritual condition to a born again person, that was originally the spiritual condition that Adam shared with God.
The 2nd Adam restored to the born again, what the 1st Adam Lost.
The born again have been restored INTO God and Christ, spiritually, by the Blood of Jesus.
This is the RESULT, of "The FINISHED WORK of Jesus on The Cross".
Similar threads
