Saved Or Predestined ???

[RainAndIceCream]

Sin didnt ender the would thru a piece of fruit, RainAndIceCream.
Sin was in the world before Adam showed up. Sin was in SATAN, who fell from Heaven because "sin-iniquity was found IN him", and so, He brought sin into the world, not Adam.
Adam brought loss of innocence, and a fallen Adamic nature into humanity, because he disobeyed God. This fallen nature, is the disconnection from God's Holy Spirit, that is mankind's LOST Condition.
The 2nd Adam, Jesus THE Christ= came to RESTORE the original spiritual condition to a born again person, that was originally the spiritual condition that Adam shared with God.

The 2nd Adam restored to the born again, what the 1st Adam Lost.
The born again have been restored INTO God and Christ, spiritually, by the Blood of Jesus.
This is the RESULT, of "The FINISHED WORK of Jesus on The Cross".

I am not a Christian that interpolates God's words.

 

[Tong2020]

I look forward to it. If you scroll back to what you posted you will see my remark to what you proclaimed.

This would not be difficult if you just stated what it is you wanted for me to prove. So, let me just guess what it is you want for me to prove to you. You wanted me to prove that God is holy? Here is scriptures

Leviticus 11:45 For I am the Lord who brings you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

I think if you read all of Isaiah 45 you'll be less confused on the matter of my stating, God is all that he says he is.

Even if I read all scriptures, your stating that God is all the he says he is, in the context that God is holy, does not tell me what you wanted to imply by quoting Isaiah 45:7-9.

Since you still dodge the question up to this point, I will let go of that issue. I'll just take that as a getting to know you matter.

Tong
R0440

 

[Tong2020]

I just did.

I wouldn't ask the first time if you just did. I asked "How could Cain be saved from his sins by Jesus' death?" You answered "The same way anyone can." I went on to ask you "Tell us about that "same way". And here your answer is "I just did". I'll leave the readers to judge for themselves if you did. As for me, apparently you can't tell us how Cain could be saved from his sins by Jesus' death. And I am not surprised.

Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God" (Matthew 5:3).
Faith is dependence upon God.
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

Did Cain seek him? It doesn't seem that way.

"By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks" (Hebrews 11:4).
God looked with favor on Abel and his offering" (Gen. 4:4). Abel was a righteous man. He had a right relationship with God. Did Abel know about Jesus, though? I don't think so. But he was obedient to what God had revealed to him.
John Owen says, "The faith of Abel was fixed on God not only as a Creator, but as a Redeemer. . ." His faith "testified in the kind of his sacrifice, which was by faith and blood . . . . The way of atonement, which was to be by blood, the blood of the promised Seed."
Speculation? Maybe, but God accepted Abel's offering, accepted Abel's heart.
When Cain's offering was rejected, he grew angry instead of repentant. That's the difference between a righteous man and a self righteous man.
But who knows? Perhaps when Cain was an outcast, he eventually repented and became a righteous man.

The matter is not whether Cain was saved or not, but that, how Cain could be saved by Jesus' death, which you just have not effectively explained and shown.

Tong
R0441

 

[Tong2020]

Sin was in the world before Adam showed up. Sin was in SATAN, who fell from Heaven because "sin-iniquity was found IN him", and so, He brought sin into the world, not Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Tong
R0442

 

[farouk]

I am not a Christian that interpolates God's words.

Scripture indeed makes statements both about the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of sinners.

 

[Behold]

It's all about His Blood folks! Without it there is no salvation for anyone.

Yes.

The same blood of Jesus that saved you, Keeps you saved.

And once you are saved by the Blood = you are always saved by the BLOOD.

 

[Behold]

I am not a Christian that interpolates God's words.

I Teach.
Teaching is to expand.

 

[Behold]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Tong
R0442

Yes.

However sin was in the world before Adam was created.

"Iniquity was found in Satan" before Adam existed.
Satan was in the world, before Adam was on it.
So, the "world" in your verse, does not mean the EARTH......It means this...>"For God so loved the WORLD"...
Now does that mean "For God so loved the trees and the whales and the oranges"?
Not quite....... so, this term "world" that you are using, means "the world of humanity" the PEOPLE....Mankind.
"For God so loved. the WORLD....the PEOPLE IN IT".
So, Satan was in the world, and He was the first sinner., having sinned before he showed up on the World.
As i said.

 

[Tong2020]

Yes.

However sin was in the world before Adam was created.

"Iniquity was found in Satan" before Adam existed.
Satan was in the world, before Adam was on it.

Satan could be said to be in the world that God created in Genesis, but sin was not and only entered the world when Adam transgressed the commandment of God. As scriptures said "through one man sin entered the world".

So, the "world" in your verse, does not mean the EARTH......It means this...>"For God so loved the WORLD"...
Now does that mean "For God so loved the trees and the whales and the oranges"?
Not quite....... so, this term "world" that you are using, means "the world of humanity" the PEOPLE....Mankind.
"For God so loved. the WORLD....the PEOPLE IN IT".
So, Satan was in the world, and He was the first sinner., having sinned before he showed up on the World.
As i said.

The scriptures I cited is Romans 5:12, not John 3:16.

Tong
R0443

 

[Behold]

Satan could be said to be in the world that God created in Genesis, but sin was not and only entered the world when Adam transgressed the commandment of God. As scriptures said "through one man sin entered the world".

The scriptures I cited is Romans 5:12, not John 3:16.

Tong
R0443

I think i showed you what the world "World" means, in context. = John 3:16
So, if you can't see this, there is not much i can do about it.
I can't see it for you, Tong 2020.

 

[Renniks]

The matter is not whether Cain was saved or not, but that, how Cain could be saved by Jesus' death, which you just have not effectively explained and shown.

You talk in circles. What don't you understand about Jesus dying for all? You seem to think he only died for some.? Why? How about you explain that, instead of constantly asking for explanations that I already answered with scripture?

 

[Tong2020]

I think i showed you what the world "World" means, in context. = John 3:16
So, if you can't see this, there is not much i can do about it.
I can't see it for you, Tong 2020.

As I said, the subject verse is Romans 5:12, not John 3:16. So, I suggest we discuss Romans 5:12 and not John 3:16.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Tell us, what does the word "world" in that verse referring to? Sin entered the "world" when Adam sinned ~ what is the "world" in that context?

Tong
R0444

 

[Tong2020]

You talk in circles. What don't you understand about Jesus dying for all? You seem to think he only died for some.? Why? How about you explain that, instead of constantly asking for explanations that I already answered with scripture?

Actually I don't like repeating myself, unless I have to, depending on the response I get.

It is you who said that Jesus died for Cain. And that, so that Cain could be saved. I asked you to explain to me how Cain could be saved from his sins by Jesus' death. And you say, by the same way we can, but you cannot not really tell me how. Now you say I talk in circles, when all I do is asked you to explain how? Well....

Tong
R0445

 

[Renniks]

As I said, the subject verse is Romans 5:12, not John 3:16. So, I suggest we discuss Romans 5:12 and not John 3:16.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Tell us, what does the word "world" in that verse referring to? Sin entered the "world" when Adam sinned ~ what is the "world" in that context?

Tong
R0444

If all men sinned, why would redemption be only for some?

 

[Renniks]

Actually I don't like repeating myself, unless I have to, depending on the response I get.

It is you who said that Jesus died for Cain. And that, so that Cain could be saved. I asked you to explain to me how Cain could be saved from his sins by Jesus' death. And you say, by the same way we can, but you cannot not really tell me how. Now you say I talk in circles, when all I do is asked you to explain how? Well....

Tong
R0445

If you don't understand how Jesus died, or that he died for all, I suggest you read the Bible. Your question makes no sense to me.

 

[Tong2020]

If all men sinned, why would redemption be only for some?

Does not scriptures say that God had chosen a people to be His people? Does not scriptures say that the Son was born into the world to save His people? Does not scriptures say that God redeemed His people (not every man)?

Tong
R0446

 

[Renniks]

Does not scriptures say that God had chosen a people to be His people? Does not scriptures say that the Son was born into the world to save His people? Does not scriptures say that God redeemed His people (not every man)?

Tong
R0446

Yes, that people being Israel, which includes all who believe.
Scripture says God's son was sent to save whosever will, not certain people.

"And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,"

"Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

 

[Tong2020]

If you don't understand how Jesus died, or that he died for all, I suggest you read the Bible. Your question makes no sense to me.

Well, if you can't tell how Cain could be saved by Jesus' death, then your suggestion to me fits you well. And I'll leave it at that and accept that.

Tong
R0447

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, that people being Israel, which includes all who believe.
Scripture says God's son was sent to save whosever will, not certain people.

"And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,"

"Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

Scriptures says that the Son will save His people (Mt. 1:21). "His people" sure refers to a specific people ~ those chosen by God to be His people.

If a ransom is paid then one is redeemed. If Jesus, by His death had paid ransom for all, then all is redeemed, which evidently is not the case. The "all" then could not be referring to all of mankind, but to all of God's chosen people.

Tong
R0448

 

[RainAndIceCream]

I Teach.
Teaching is to expand.

And interpolation is to mislead.