Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Bible Highlighter]

The matter is what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7 about the 'body of death', our fleshy members being assigned to the "law of sin".

So ANYONE... in the flesh (except Lord Jesus) who claims they don't sin anymore, even after having believed on Jesus Christ, make Him a liar, simply because ONLY God could be born in the flesh and be completely without sin. The rest of us literally have our flesh assigned to the "law of sin" while alive in the flesh, and it will stay that way until the day we die, or to the day Christ returns, whichever one comes first.

There are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience) and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.

#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way it sort of works is if Paul is referring to himself as a baby who had no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problems with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be sin? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. For if Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and it's laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) is not really breaking any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadow of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment as speaking as an Israelite living throughout history to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says, that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be a double accountability to keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all law. This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.​

(Continued in next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin; And yet in Romans 8:2, Pauls says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered thru Jesus Christ as a Christian. If a believer is delivered by Jesus, and is thankful of that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"

#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,

8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).
​

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).

#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.
​

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).​

Source used for a small paragraph within this write up:
Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The matter is what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7 about the 'body of death', our fleshy members being assigned to the "law of sin".

So ANYONE... in the flesh (except Lord Jesus) who claims they don't sin anymore, even after having believed on Jesus Christ, make Him a liar, simply because ONLY God could be born in the flesh and be completely without sin. The rest of us literally have our flesh assigned to the "law of sin" while alive in the flesh, and it will stay that way until the day we die, or to the day Christ returns, whichever one comes first.

If what you say is true then we can just rip these verses out of the Bible.

Galatians 5:24
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

1 Peter 4:1-2
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.”

2 Corinthians 7:1
“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who…”
14 “Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:”

In fact, Jesus said to two people to, “sin no more,” (John 5:14) (John 8:11).
Surely Jesus was telling the truth here. The apostle John says to “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).

To recap:

The Bible says things like….

1. They that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.
2. He (the person) who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.
3. Arm yourselves with the same mind. He (the believer) should no longer live the rest of your time to the lusts of the flesh but to the will of God.
4. Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
5. There were false prophets and false teachers who cannot cease from sin.
6. Sin no more.
7. Sin not.

 

[Davy]

You are misinterpreting 1 John 1:8, my friend.

You apparently are in need of a line upon line teaching of 1 John 1...

1 John 1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

No mistake who Apostle John is addressing there, he is speaking to believers on Jesus Christ, those who had already believed on Jesus.


4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

John is speaking of our 'walk' with The Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Apostle Paul covered this matter too in Galatians 5 when he said IF we walk by The Spirit, then we have become dead to the law. The opposite of that walk Paul taught is walking by our FLESH instead, and he listed specific examples of sins of the flesh that will prevent one who practices them from inheriting the Kingdom of God, and that opposite 'walk' according to our flesh is what this "darkness" is that John is pointing to.

7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Again, that is ONLY IF "we walk in the light" with Jesus. And again also, John is speaking to BELIEVERS on Jesus Christ here, to the Church. So this is DEFINITELY about our 'walk' with Jesus AFTER we have believed on Him, and been baptized.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Did John mean sin that we had BEFORE we believed on Lord Jesus Christ? Of course not, as the previous verses ESTABLISHED beyond all doubt that John is speaking to the Church here, and not the unbelieving.

So there again, if those in Christ today say... they have no sin, they deceive themselves, and the Truth is not in them. Why would John say that to the Church? Simply because like what Apostle Paul taught about falling short of the glory of God, and we all have been concluded under sin (by our flesh lusts) for this world, so that God's Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ would be to those who believe.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Again, John is speaking that to the Church. As believers on Jesus Christ, we are to confess FUTURE SINS and repent, making a change, asking Jesus forgiveness. He then cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
KJV

If we fib, and claim we no longer sin after having believed on Jesus, then we LIE, and His Word is not in us. Why is John so strongly warning us about that?

It is because of the 'weakness' of our flesh. Like Paul taught, our spirit wars with our flesh, causing us to often not do what our spirit would have us do (see Romans 7). Thus we must continually try to overcome by The Spirit this battle with the fleshy wants and desires (sins of the flesh) which are against Christ. Here's an example of some of those works of the flesh...



Gal 5:17-21
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


Paul is pretty clear, huh? Yeah, no misunderstanding the two walk options there!

 

[Davy]

In Defending the true meaning of Romans 7:

Once again, can't beat a LINE UPON LINE FLOW in God's Word for true understanding, because it PREVENTS man's leaven doctrines from creeping in...

Rom 7:12-25
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God's law is good simply because it points out sin. That is what Paul is saying. And even though God's law points out sin, that still does not make the law a type of 'death' itself, but only as a tool that points out the working of death in us, that is, in our FLESHY MEMBERS. (Paul will point specifically to this idea more later here.)

So really, God's law was given to point to Christ Jesus, i.e., the fact that the law cannot save us, so Who can? Lord Jesus. And in 1 Timothy 1, Paul says the law was not made for the righteous, but for the sinner and the ungodly.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul admits that he doesn't always do what he sets out to do. Like he said in Galatians 5:17, that the flesh lusts against The Spirit, and The Spirit against the flesh, so that you cannot always do the things you would.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul does not give a new mystery here, he makes the source of most of our sins very plain and easy to understand, it is our fleshy members that is responsible for our fleshy lusts and desires. It is because the flesh is a body of sin he says later, and is subject to the law of sin.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What does Paul mean with, "it is no more I that do it"? He means his 'spirit' inside his flesh, his spirit seeks to follow The Holy Spirit and God's laws. But the flesh wars against The Spirit and visa versa, remember?

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

The law of God is of the inward man, i.e., our 'spirit' inside us. Our spirit is of the heavenly order. Not breaking any of God's laws means walking by The Spirit, because doing the good things of The Spirit, there is no law against.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

By this Romans 7 chapter, Apostle Paul made it clear that our flesh body is a body of death, it is assigned to perish forever, because it is ONLY of this present flesh world. Paul taught the body of the world to come is a "spiritual body", not another one of flesh like we have today. This is why many who wrongly think their flesh body in the casket is going to be literally raised and made anew don't like what Paul made clear in this Romans 7 chapter about our body of death, our flesh, which God assigned to the "law of sin".

That's God's Word reveals that it is our spirit that is saved in Jesus Christ, and not our flesh body. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 made it clear that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Our flesh bodies are for this present world only, and see corruption at flesh death, even though Lord Jesus' flesh body did not see corruption, as written in Acts 2.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Many misinterpret the first chapter of 1 John completely...

This may also be helpful:
More Biblical Light on Confession of sins

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Once again, can't beat a LINE UPON LINE FLOW in God's Word for true understanding, because it PREVENTS man's leaven doctrines from creeping in...

Rom 7:12-25
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God's law is good simply because it points out sin. That is what Paul is saying. And even though God's law points out sin, that still does not make the law a type of 'death' itself, but only as a tool that points out the working of death in us, that is, in our FLESHY MEMBERS. (Paul will point specifically to this idea more later here.)

So really, God's law was given to point to Christ Jesus, i.e., the fact that the law cannot save us, so Who can? Lord Jesus. And in 1 Timothy 1, Paul says the law was not made for the righteous, but for the sinner and the ungodly.

The context is Romans 7:6. Please stop now and read it. It is talking about how we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses. We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses. Those were laws given to Israel and not the church. Also, Paul is not referring to himself as a Christian in his struggle with sin in Romans 7:14-24. That would not even make any sense because he would contradict himself in Galatians 5:24 by saying that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts. In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his struggle with sin while under the OLD LAW while he was a Pharisee. This has to be the interpretative view because he says he is carnal and sold under sin in this passage.

Paul says in the next chapter, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:2).
So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul admits that he doesn't always do what he sets out to do. Like he said in Galatians 5:17, that the flesh lusts against The Spirit, and The Spirit against the flesh, so that you cannot always do the things you would.

*Sigh* You ignore the advice in Galatians 5:16 (Which is the verse right before). Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul does not give a new mystery here, he makes the source of most of our sins very plain and easy to understand, it is our fleshy members that is responsible for our fleshy lusts and desires. It is because the flesh is a body of sin he says later, and is subject to the law of sin.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

What does Paul mean with, "it is no more I that do it"? He means his 'spirit' inside his flesh, his spirit seeks to follow The Holy Spirit and God's laws. But the flesh wars against The Spirit and visa versa, remember?

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

The law of God is of the inward man, i.e., our 'spirit' inside us. Our spirit is of the heavenly order. Not breaking any of God's laws means walking by The Spirit, because doing the good things of The Spirit, there is no law against.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

By this Romans 7 chapter, Apostle Paul made it clear that our flesh body is a body of death, it is assigned to perish forever, because it is ONLY of this present flesh world. Paul taught the body of the world to come is a "spiritual body", not another one of flesh like we have today. This is why many who wrongly think their flesh body in the casket is going to be literally raised and made anew don't like what Paul made clear in this Romans 7 chapter about our body of death, our flesh, which God assigned to the "law of sin".

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1 let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
So no. You are misinterpreting Paul in Romans 7:14-24. He is talking as a Pharisee before he came to Jesus Christ.

Dual Nature Theology is false.
One is not saved while one sins.
That’s dark and twisted and evil beyond all imagining.
One can be like Hitler and kill Jews and be saved all because they have a belief on Jesus Christ as the Savior.
That’s wrong. Jude 1:4 warns against turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

Paul even tells you in the next chapter that if you live after the flesh (sin) you will die (i.e. die the second death), but if you put put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally) (See: Romans 8:13).

That's God's Word reveals that it is our spirit that is saved in Jesus Christ, and not our flesh body. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50 made it clear that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Our flesh bodies are for this present world only, and see corruption at flesh death, even though Lord Jesus' flesh body did not see corruption, as written in Acts 2.

This simply means that faithful believers will not have physical human flesh and blood bodies when the Rapture takes place and they enter God’s Kingdom in Heaven. They will have spiritual bodies like that of angels. Only in the bodily resurrection after the Millennium, will those who were Raptured receive flesh and blood bodies again. But flesh and blood cannot currently enter the Kingdom of God. Of course this does not apply to Jesus, though. For He does not need to inherit anything. He already owns all things because He is GOD.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

KJV

Again, this is said by Paul (Saul) when he was a Pharisee while he was under a form of Law Alone Salvationism without God’s grace. He tried to obey God’s laws without the grace of Jesus Christ back then but he could not succeed and so sin ruled over him (seeing he had no grace). For Paul says in Romans 6 that sin shall not have dominion over you. For you are not under the Law (the Old Law), but under grace. So if we mess up, we have a Savior that we can confess our sins to for forgiveness (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9). This is not a mindless paying of lip service while one plans to sin tomorrow or next week because they believe they are corrupt and they must always sin this side of Heaven. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). 1 John 1:9 says that by confessing of your sin,… it is to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. That’s one of the reasons. The other is forgiveness. If we don’t confess then we are not forgiven, and unforgiven people are not saved. So salvation is conditional. You have to choose to abide in God and His good ways and not justify sin or evil like most of Christianity. But if you want to play games with your soul in justifying darkness, then by all means. I would rather trust the Lord and His goodness according to His Word. Does that mean I never have messed up? No. It just means that I fight and battle against any sin or temptation and I don’t seek to justify it like many in the popular Candy Land Fantasy Christianity.

Side Note:

Oh, and when Paul refers to sin, he is referring to the ”righteousness of the Law” (i.e. the righteous aspect or part of the Law) which is to love your neighbor (which is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the Law) (See: Romans 13:8-10). Fo love fulfills the Law (i.e. the Old Law). Paul said he was not without Law but he was under the Law of God by being under the Law(s) of Christ (Please read 1 Corinthians 9:21). So when Paul says he is not under the Law but under grace in Romans 6:14, he is referring to the Old Law, and not the Laws of Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Davy

Please address the verses in my post #1323.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

this is great!!! Notice in verse 20, the last item, heresies. This forum is chock full of heresies.
Davy, thank you for posting this verse, i hope it serves as a reminder to all the crazy beliefs floating around on here.

**side note** davy, this wasnt directed at you personally, just the crazy folk.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If we fib, and claim we no longer sin after having believed on Jesus, then we LIE

Boloney!

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin...” (1 John 3:9)

You are confused about scripture.

Here’s the real liar according to the truth:

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)

Christ commanded:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

If you do not keep this commandment you are a liar.

You teach contrary to this commandment so you are a liar.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Boloney!

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin...” (1 John 3:9)

You are confused about scripture.

Here’s the real liar according to the truth:

“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4)

Christ commanded:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

If you do not keep this commandment you are a liar.

You teach contrary to this commandment so you are a liar.

wait…. So you dont sin anymore??

 

[Michiah-Imla]

wait…. So you dont sin anymore??

No.

Can’t you control yourself?

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Are you a child of the Devil? Who do you serve?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin… In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil…” (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No.

Can’t you control yourself?

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Are you a child of the Devil? Who do you serve?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin… In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil…” (1 John 3:9-10)

i will call out ANYONE who says they no longer sin. You are a Liar!!!! Every one sins, daily!!! You are a LIAR!!!!! And that goes for ANYONE who says they dont sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

i will call out ANYONE who says they no longer sin. You are a Liar!!!! Every one sins, daily!!! You are a LIAR!!!!! And that goes for ANYONE who says they dont sin.

You are anti-biblical you sinner!

Beware!

“depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.” (Luke 13:27)

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

You tread all over your Savior by continuing to sin!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You are anti-biblical you sinner!

Beware!

“depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.” (Luke 13:27)

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

You tread all over your Savior by continuing to sin!

you cant stop sinning. No one on this planet had stopped. We all sin daily. To believe otherwise, well, john says to deny we sin is a sign that we arent saved. Only fools think they can stop their sinning. You know what? Im adding you sin deniers to my ignore list along side the JWs, and other heretics.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only fools think they can stop their sinning.

On the contrary:

“It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.” (Proverbs 10:23)

I simply repeat the Bible teaching against mischief. You do mischief everyday it seems. Who’s the fool here according to the Bible?

You are deep in falsehoods!

You go ahead and ignore me. You ignore the Bible anyway. The truth hurts!

No surprise.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

A bunch of hot air from @Lifelong_sinner (a fitting screen name) with no scriptural rebuke!

Typical!

He’s running home to his false teachers!

 

[Lambano]

you cant stop sinning. No one on this planet had stopped. We all sin daily. To believe otherwise, ....

Well... at least you KNOW you need Jesus.

 

[Davy]

The context is Romans 7:6. Please stop now and read it. It is talking about how we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses. We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses. Those were laws given to Israel and not the church. Also, Paul is not referring to himself as a Christian in his struggle with sin in Romans 7:14-24. That would not even make any sense because he would contradict himself in Galatians 5:24 by saying that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts. In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his struggle with sin while under the OLD LAW while he was a Pharisee. This has to be the interpretative view because he says he is carnal and sold under sin in this passage.

You are READING INTO THE SCRIPTURE WHAT YOU WANT... IT TO SAY. Paul is NOT doing away with God's laws. That is even more clear per what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws per CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE. And it's also clear per what Paul taught in Galatians 5 that ONLY IF we walk by The Spirit are we dead to the law. Fall away and sin, and then what's it like? We place ourselves BACK UNDER THE LAW if we fall away and sin, even after having believed on Jesus and been baptized? Well, can that really happen, a believer on Jesus commit sin later... after having believed? (don't answer, I don't care to hear false denials that say we cannot still sin after having believed on Jesus.)

Want examples? Have some Christians gone to a bar, got drunk, and had a car wreck and were arrested for drunk driving? Yeah! It has happened, and the reason it happened can be many with the person suffering a personal tragedy, like divorce, death in the family, financial ruin, etc.

What was in those kind of cases that caused their arrest. By what authority are those penalized from? From God's laws. That's right, many of the laws today still, in Christian society, come directly from God's laws in the Old Testament. Public drunkenness is only one of them.

So we see God's law, like Paul said, is not for the righteous, but for the sinner and ungodly.

 

[Davy]

The context is Romans 7:6. Please stop now and read it. It is talking about how we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the 613 Laws of Moses. We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses. Those were laws given to Israel and not the church. Also, Paul is not referring to himself as a Christian in his struggle with sin in Romans 7:14-24. That would not even make any sense because he would contradict himself in Galatians 5:24 by saying that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts. In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is recounting his struggle with sin while under the OLD LAW while he was a Pharisee. This has to be the interpretative view because he says he is carnal and sold under sin in this passage.

Paul says in the next chapter, “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:2).
So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.



*Sigh* You ignore the advice in Galatians 5:16 (Which is the verse right before). Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.



Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1 let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
So no. You are misinterpreting Paul in Romans 7:14-24. He is talking as a Pharisee before he came to Jesus Christ.

Dual Nature Theology is false.
One is not saved while one sins.
That’s dark and twisted and evil beyond all imagining.
One can be like Hitler and kill Jews and be saved all because they have a belief on Jesus Christ as the Savior.
That’s wrong. Jude 1:4 warns against turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

Paul even tells you in the next chapter that if you live after the flesh (sin) you will die (i.e. die the second death), but if you put put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally) (See: Romans 8:13).



This simply means that faithful believers will not have physical human flesh and blood bodies when the Rapture takes place and they enter God’s Kingdom in Heaven. They will have spiritual bodies like that of angels. Only in the bodily resurrection after the Millennium, will those who were Raptured receive flesh and blood bodies again. But flesh and blood cannot currently enter the Kingdom of God. Of course this does not apply to Jesus, though. For He does not need to inherit anything. He already owns all things because He is GOD.



Again, this is said by Paul (Saul) when he was a Pharisee while he was under a form of Law Alone Salvationism without God’s grace. He tried to obey God’s laws without the grace of Jesus Christ back then but he could not succeed and so sin ruled over him (seeing he had no grace). For Paul says in Romans 6 that sin shall not have dominion over you. For you are not under the Law (the Old Law), but under grace. So if we mess up, we have a Savior that we can confess our sins to for forgiveness (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9). This is not a mindless paying of lip service while one plans to sin tomorrow or next week because they believe they are corrupt and they must always sin this side of Heaven. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). 1 John 1:9 says that by confessing of your sin,… it is to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. That’s one of the reasons. The other is forgiveness. If we don’t confess then we are not forgiven, and unforgiven people are not saved. So salvation is conditional. You have to choose to abide in God and His good ways and not justify sin or evil like most of Christianity. But if you want to play games with your soul in justifying darkness, then by all means. I would rather trust the Lord and His goodness according to His Word. Does that mean I never have messed up? No. It just means that I fight and battle against any sin or temptation and I don’t seek to justify it like many in the popular Candy Land Fantasy Christianity.

Side Note:

Oh, and when Paul refers to sin, he is referring to the ”righteousness of the Law” (i.e. the righteous aspect or part of the Law) which is to love your neighbor (which is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the Law) (See: Romans 13:8-10). Fo love fulfills the Law (i.e. the Old Law). Paul said he was not without Law but he was under the Law of God by being under the Law(s) of Christ (Please read 1 Corinthians 9:21). So when Paul says he is not under the Law but under grace in Romans 6:14, he is referring to the Old Law, and not the Laws of Christ.

I have, but you only want to address single verses you can pull out of God's Word, whereas I stick to the whole Chapter and rest of God's Word to interpret those verses. And I have given you enough response that covers what you're trying to say.