Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Jim B]

The fact is social media has now become the norm in society and these forums are just another form for information. I have been on them going on nearly 3 decades now. And the fallacy the poster made is obvious. There are many many well known pastors/scholars that use the internet as a medium for teaching and sharing Gods word.This medium in no way replaced the local church and our responsibility to be plugged into a local body of believers. I'm on a few forums and know pastors who post frequently on them. And they have effective ministries in their churches. So the poster has created nothing but a strawman argument. And these forums have many different reasons for being here. Some to learn, others to have their faith/doctrines challenged, others seek advice and prayer. And other might feel more comfortable sharing things in this medium vs another way. So it serves multiple purposes for different reasons for many people. But to come in here with both guns loaded in full attack mode is not the best way to build the trust of others here and for them to hear what you have to say.

Great post! Very insightful! Thanks!

 

[Jim B]

What would God prefer, debating on the internet, where people seldom, if ever change their minds, or evangelising the message outside of it? No wisdom in making a god out of debating

It's not an either/or situation. The internet is just another form of communication, like the telephone or postal mail.

 

[ChristisGod]

It's not an either/or situation. The internet is just another form of communication, like the telephone or postal mail.

And he is also wrong as I have personally known people who have changed their minds with doctrines as I have recently. I have known people that have become saved as well who were lurkers and started posting and gave their testimony how God used the forum to speak to them and were saved because of reading posts on the forum. So the poster has no clue what he is talking about and has already thrown the baby out with the bathwater several times in his posts with his biased sweeping statements.

 

[Taken]

That's the FAKE INTERPRETATION put out by the Hyper Grace crowd. That's called "disinformation".

But even if this verse was not there, what about the other passages of Scripture? For example Galatians 5:16,17: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth [wars] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Is Paul writing to Christians? Absolutely
Do Christians have the Holy Spirit? Absolutely
Do Christians have "the flesh" according to this passage? Absolutely
Is there constant warfare between "the flesh" and the Spirit? Absolutely
Can "the flesh" win sometimes and cause a Christian to sin? Absolutely
So if we say we have no sin do we deceive ourselves? Absolutely
And at the same time do we make God a liar? Absolutely

Paul’s mission was to minister to Gentiles. (Acts 9:15)
Calling oneself a Christian does not make one Converted.
A natural born person IS born with sinful flesh.
Can crucified dead flesh cause a “Converted” person to SIN? No.

 

[Jim B]

I think tense is something lost on many. In 1 timothy, paul talked about being chief of sinners. “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

notice he didnt say i WAS, he said i AM. Paul saw himself as the chiefest, highest-ranking, worst of all sinners. A sinner is someone whose life and actions are contrary or in rebellion to the will and laws of God. Paul testified to the church in Corinth, “For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.”

When i mention on this forum about all of us being sinners, i get pushback from nearly everyone. Yet paul, even after becoming an apostle, still called himself a sinner. And i PROMISE you, we all are worse sinners than paul was. Yet you have some who get upset about being called a sinner? Thats nothing but pride getting in the way.

Your inclusion of Paul's last sentence defeats your premise. "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.” Clearly, God's grace didn't make Paul the chiefest of all sinners but the greatest of all apostles.

Your exegesis is very poor!

 

[Jim B]

Like anyone listens to your lies.

That is your reply to my statement that your exegesis is very poor?

Exegesis is not a person (duh).

Your reply sounds like a child's retort.

Finally, why is your identity "lifelong sinner"? Is that something you're bragging about?

 

[ChristisGod]

I think tense is something lost on many. In 1 timothy, paul talked about being chief of sinners. “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

notice he didnt say i WAS, he said i AM. Paul saw himself as the chiefest, highest-ranking, worst of all sinners. A sinner is someone whose life and actions are contrary or in rebellion to the will and laws of God. Paul testified to the church in Corinth, “For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.”

When i mention on this forum about all of us being sinners, i get pushback from nearly everyone. Yet paul, even after becoming an apostle, still called himself a sinner. And i PROMISE you, we all are worse sinners than paul was. Yet you have some who get upset about being called a sinner? Thats nothing but pride getting in the way.

Context is everything as Paul is referring to his past, former life as Saul.

1 Timothy 1:12-15
I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

 

[ChristisGod]

Its no wonder there are so few of us reformed folk on this forum.

What does that mean ?

 

[ChristisGod]

because i, like paul, understand that i am a sinner. We all are, every single person sins daily, yet im the only one around that can be honest and admit it.

Paul didn't call himself a sinner in the present but in the past. I showed you that from the context in 1 Timothy 1:12-15.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

Just to let you in on a little secrete . Most who claim to be christian .............AINT .

Lets find out if you are.

Explain why "God who keeps you saved, with the Cross of Christ, always keeps you saved, no matter how you behave, once you are born again"

Or, if that is too hard for you to understand...
Then just explain this verse.., and then i'll be able to find out from your own words, if you are among the FAKIRS on this Forum.

Philippians 1:6

 

[Jim B]

because i, like paul, understand that i am a sinner. We all are, every single person sins daily, yet im the only one around that can be honest and admit it.

You're the only honest person around? That statement clearly shows your dishonesty!

Try understanding the difference between a sinner and a saved person who commits a sin. Then come back to the forum and start making sense (if your ego will allow it).

 

[ChristisGod]

It means that the amount of bad theology on this forum is overwhelming.

Are you disagreeing Paul was referring to himself as the chief of sinners in relation to his past as Saul the persecutor of the church ?

1 Timothy 1:12-15
I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

 

[Taken]

Humans come from their Mother's womb.
So, """if you came from dust""", you must be from Mars.

God Forms a human FROM the Earth.
You should read Scripture, God never mentions Mars!
God gives Life to a human.
God Formed man out of the material of the Earth.
God then Gave the Earth to man for mans habitat.
Mans habitat sustains the man Life.
The Earth is where Minerals and Nutrients ARE.

See how long your Natural body would continue living WITHOUT the Earth’s Mineral and Nutrients!

No water to drink, Nothing to eat? Go for it. It will only take a few weeks to bodily physically die. Then you can die knowing your were wrong.

You will die, and your body will return to dirt......but that is not the same as being born a human.

Will DIE? My bodily life was Given to my Parents from God. I already gave my bodiy BACK TO God, Crucified dead.

You should LEARN Scriptural verses HAVE TO MEANINGS.
One for the human man OF this world’s worldly understanding.
One for the human man OF God and Gods Spiritual understanding.

 

[ChristisGod]

It means that the amount of bad theology on this forum is overwhelming.

oh the old guilt by association fallacy. you are right and all others outside of "calvins group" are wrong.

I was a calvinist longer than you and know the doctrines much better. Like Saul I can say I was the chief of sinners then. But I was blind just like he was. Now I can see the religious trap and pride that calvinism brings to men. Its a stronghold. Its nothing but self righteousness and defending their sin instead of the Holiness of God and that God is loving not hateful. Calvinism emphasis is Gods hate over His love. They have it backwards.

BTW- I've been teaching those reformed doctrines in life groups for over 40 years. So I know what I'm talking about when it comes to calvinism.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jim B]

you havent showed anything, but your wrong theology. Every single post from you is just bad, wrong, twisted. How?????? How can so many on here be so wrong, so often???? Its maddening!!!

You're more than welcome to leave!

 

[Jim B]

Imagine that…. A calvinist hater calling someone else a fakir. LoL. The irony.

BTW, a fakir is a Muslim (or, loosely, a Hindu) religious ascetic who lives solely on alms.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Unless you are a Mormon. But if you have two wives, no problem.:cool:

Note: a if a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has 2 wives, that’s grounds for swift excommunication.

 

[Behold]

You have understood half the mystery...but you are missing a fundamental, if subtle, difference between being in Christ and abiding in Christ. .

The only way to "abide" in Christ, is to be born again Into the Spirit of God.

This places you "IN Christ', and that is how you "abide" there.
Its by being there in the Spirit, = born again.

 

[Behold]

soul.

Salvation is NOT Jesus on the cross. It is Jesus resurrected.

ITs the blood atonement that is the eternal sacrifice, which is Jesus on the Cross.
The "resurrection" only proves that its True.

You are teaching a really demonic idea, when you say that the Cross is not the Salvation of God.
Dont be a Cross denier, in public, as they dont generally end very well.

 

[ChristisGod]

ITs the blood atonement that is the eternal sacrifice, which is Jesus on the Cross.
The "resurrection" only proves that its True.

You are teaching a really demonic idea, when you say that the Cross is not the Salvation of God.
Dont be a Cross denier, in public, as they dont generally end very well.

The church in Acts preached the Resurrection as the centerpiece of the gospel. I challenge you to prove me wrong. 1 Corinthians 15 Paul defines the gospel and spends the entire chapter defending the bodily Resurrection/Ascension of Jesus.

hope this helps !!!