Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to "God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

In 1 Timothy 1:12-17, Paul is talking about his past life as a Pharisee who persecuted the church of God before he met Jesus Christ. Paul was not saved when he was killing Christians and blaspheming. Verse 13 is saying that he obtained mercy in regards to his former past life in killing Christians and being a blasphemer WHEN he was told to wash away his sins by calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts of the Apostles 22:16). He was not saved as a Pharisee. He did these things ignorantly in UNBELIEF as a Pharisee and not as a Christian. So this is not a biblical case where a Christian can do horrible sins that lead unto the second death and be saved as long as they do them ignorance.

That is exactly what I am saying, though until recently, I felt the same as you. But don't worry, God does not leave us in darkness about those things for long, unless these things are done willfully.

Your old belief was more correct, and your new belief is wrong.
This again falls into the realm of not fully believing Galatians 5:19-21, etcetera.
According to you: Jesus warning on being cast into hellfire bodily for looking upon a woman in lust only applies if you do so with full knowledge that it is wrong according to reading and understanding Matthew 5:28-30. According to you: A Christian can ignorantly lust after women and be saved. But this undoes the words of Jesus. In fact, the number of sins one can do in ignorance is endless. Again, this encourages one not to read the Bible so they can sin ignorance. In other words, any theology that encourages one to sin is a false theology - (IMHO). God is not about condoning our sin under any circumstance. Sins in ignorance does not mean one is saved. Remember, the Spirit convicts a person of their sin (John 16:8). So they are without excuse. People harden their hearts to sin and this is a dangerous place to be. Hebrews 3 talks about how sin can harden hearts whereby we can depart from the living God.

In fact, when a baby Christian discovers he has no power over his addiction to whatever, those are the most dramatic life changing experiences when they become born again.

So you believe a person can be a Christian (i.e. be saved) before they are born again? I hope that is not what you are saying. I have ran into another believer who oddly believes this way.

But the percentage of pastors that watch pornography is very high. They certainly know better and could come to the throne of grace for power of the Spirit over those desires long ago, if they actually wanted to please God. I'm talking about those who love God with all their heart. That is who the Spirit works on. Those are the ones who do live up to the knowledge they have.

There are ways to overcome sin that even many pastors are ignorant of. Even when they may know of the various different ways, they have to practice these ways to overcome them.

Ways to overcome “Sins That Lead Unto Death”
by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:

#1. Remove yourself from sinful environments.

Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted.

Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well. Being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Obey God’s righteous ways.

Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture.

When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if you are tempted to look at others in lust if you find yourself in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians.

Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. Hide God’s Word in your heart.

Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. Confess of your sins.

Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Suffer in the Flesh:

1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: Also see verse 2). We should suffer in the flesh by:

1. Resisting during times of temptation.
2. Fasting.
3. Being persecuted for Christ’s sake.

I have written other points with Scripture that need fleshing out a bit more.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is the running, then, what's important, rather than the grabbing?

The word says it’s a race of trust we are in. It also says there’s nothing more precious than your trust. It’s the most precious thing you’ve been entrusted with. You have nothing more valuable. And it says to run your race of trust to win. I use the word trust instead of faith because I can see it no other way. When He would say, why is your faith so little, I think He meant why is your trust so little. From start to finish it’s through trust. It’s the talent in the parable that God expects to see growth on. Without trust it is impossible to please Him.

But that trust is grabbing to apprehend what you have been apprehended FOR. So…racing to trust more and more is important, getting back up and running again after you’ve stumbled in trust is important, it’s just trust.

Does God put rulers in their seats and remove rulers from their seats or do WE do it by voting? If we believe and trust what He has said, that HE controls the course of world events and puts rulers in their seats and removes them from their seats, I wonder why we even vote.

Does God guide my steps as He says? If so, and if I trust Him on that, why would I complain about any circumstance I find myself in? Wouldn’t it be because I really DONT trust that He orders my steps?

One old saint put it this way - to know Gods will it is only necessary to look at your circumstance.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They certainly know better and could come to the throne of grace for power of the Spirit over those desires long ago, if they actually wanted to please God. I'm talking about those who love God with all their heart. That is who the Spirit works on. Those are the ones who do live up to the knowledge they have. Phil. 3:16.

You are importing “eisegesis” (i.e. you are inserting ideas into the text) and you are not employing “exegesis” (drawing out of the text what it says). Read Philippians 3 several times or read it in a few a translations (Including the KJB). Get a feel for what Philippians 3 is saying as a whole.

The context says NOTHING of your teaching and it talks about how his old life in the Pharisee religion under the Old Law, and it’s ways he counts it as dung (poop), and Paul now presses towards the mark and prize and high calling in Christ Jesus so as to walk perfectly in Christ Jesus. We should all mind the same thing and walk by the same rule in following or walking after Christ. We are to press towards the mark of perfection that God desires of us. So verse 16 is saying that we are to hold to whatever progress we have already made (NLT) (New Living Translation). This progress would be in our walk towards imitating Christ Jesus and His righteous walk. It’s not a biblical case for your theory that we can sin in ignorance. There is nothing in the context that talks about such a thing.

Anyways, the problem I have with your belief is that a person can be in a false Christian religion or cult and be saved because they are in that cult in ignorance. So the gate is wide for salvation and it is not the narrow way that Jesus talked about. So according to your view: A Christian religion whereby it allows its members to bows down to statues is saved because they are doing so in ignorance. But I don’t believe that is possible. Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it.

 

[Lambano]

Does God guide my steps as He says? If so, and if I trust Him on that, why would I complain about any circumstance I find myself in? Wouldn’t it be because I really DONT trust that He orders my steps?

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If He orders your steps and you don't like your circumstances, it's His fault. If you order your own steps, then you're responsible for your circumstances.

God is sovereign, and we are free and responsible. And I don't know how to resolve that paradox. So Trust is all we have.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Then why are these things written?

“Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

And if you’re not perfect God shall not be with you.

Christ gives the believer perfection. But now maintain it; it’s the reasonable thing to do:

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)

I can't tell you why he said those things and I cannot equally tell you why he said these things....
“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”
— Philippians 1:6 (KJV)
“The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.”
— Psalms 138:8 (KJV)
Romans 8 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³⁴ Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
³⁵ Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
³⁶ As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
³⁷ Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
³⁸ For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No...he was really clear..."it is the last hour" means it was the last hour. We're not talking metaphors, etc.. That's what he said.

What is your interpretation? What is He speaking of and why?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why would Jesus tell his disciples to be perfect as my Father who is in heaven is perfect if we could never achieve perfection. Do you believe Jesus lied? Why do you think Jesus came? It is because of without Him no one is righteous, no not one. And we must be righteous by the crucifiction of our carnal flesh to be dead to sin, for without holiness, no man shall see God. Heb. 12:14.

It is also written that He will perform that good work He begun in us....
But back to sinless perfection...arguing against one another over God's Word and putting a stumblingblock before some is a sin which is committed all the time on these forums.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In 1 Timothy 1:12-17, Paul is talking about his past life as a Pharisee who persecuted the church of God before he met Jesus Christ. Paul was not saved when he was killing Christians and blaspheming. Verse 13 is saying that he obtained mercy in regards to his former past life in killing Christians and being a blasphemer WHEN he was told to wash away his sins by calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts of the Apostles 22:16). He was not saved as a Pharisee. He did these things ignorantly in UNBELIEF as a Pharisee and not as a Christian. So this is not a biblical case where a Christian can do horrible sins that lead unto the second death and be saved as long as they do them ignorance.



Your old belief was more correct, and your new belief is wrong.
This again falls into the realm of not fully believing Galatians 5:19-21, etcetera.
According to you: Jesus warning on being cast into hellfire bodily for looking upon a woman in lust only applies if you do so with full knowledge that it is wrong according to reading and understanding Matthew 5:28-30. According to you: A Christian can ignorantly lust after women and be saved. But this undoes the words of Jesus. In fact, the number of sins one can do in ignorance is endless. Again, this encourages one not to read the Bible so they can sin ignorance. In other words, any theology that encourages one to sin is a false theology - (IMHO). God is not about condoning our sin under any circumstance. Sins in ignorance does not mean one is saved. Remember, the Spirit convicts a person of their sin (John 16:8). So they are without excuse. People harden their hearts to sin and this is a dangerous place to be. Hebrews 3 talks about how sin can harden hearts whereby we can depart from the living God.



So you believe a person can be a Christian (i.e. be saved) before they are born again? I hope that is not what you are saying. I have ran into another believer who oddly believes this way.



There are ways to overcome sin that even many pastors are ignorant of. Even when they may know of the various different ways, they have to practice these ways to overcome them.

Ways to overcome “Sins That Lead Unto Death”
by God's Word and with the help of Jesus:

#1. Remove yourself from sinful environments.

Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin (Genesis 39:11-12). One of the commands in the New Testament is: "Flee fornication." (1 Corinthians 6:18) (Note: Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the commandments of the Lord - 1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). Sometimes this running away is merely a means of escape. God provides a way of escape for us to run to so that we can bear the temptation and get through it. For 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

#2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted.

Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin (Matthew 6:12). God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:41). In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well. Being enslaved to sin is a demonic influence. While being enslaved to sin does not mean a Christian is possessed by a demon, we learn that certain demon possessions could not be driven out only by prayer and fasting (Matthew 17:21). So if demon possession at the most intense level can only be healed (by the casting out of the demon) by both prayer and fasting, then it is a sure bet that fasting and praying to overcome sin will also help a believer overcome sin (Which is a demonic influence).

#3. Obey God’s righteous ways.

Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16). "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14). "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Romans 6:22).

#4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture.

When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil (Matthew 4:4) (Matthew 4:7) (Matthew 4:10). So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse (Especially if you are tempted to look at others in lust if you find yourself in public around a lot of people) is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” (Psalms 23:1). You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).

#5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians.

Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help. In 1 John 5, we see Christians praying for a believer who is struggling to overcome a sin (that they are confessing). "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16). A faithful Christian shall ask God to give their fellow Christian life (victory) in overcoming their sin that they are confessing (i.e. sin that is confessed is not a sin that leads unto death).

#6. Hide God’s Word in your heart.

Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalms 119:11).

#7. Confess of your sins.

Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#8. Suffer in the Flesh:

1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: Also see verse 2). We should suffer in the flesh by:

1. Resisting during times of temptation.
2. Fasting.
3. Being persecuted for Christ’s sake.

I have written other points with Scripture that need fleshing out a bit more.

So you believe until we are perfect we are not children of God; that as soon as we receive the Holy Spirit we know all the mysteries of God and all his laws and never make any mistakes.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It is also written that He will perform that good work He begun in us....
But back to sinless perfection...arguing against one another over God's Word and putting a stumblingblock before some is a sin which is committed all the time on these forums.

I don't teach sinless perfection happening as soon as we are born again. What I teach is being dead to sin, or sinlessness. Perfection takes some a lifetime. Baby Christians commit unintentional sins all the time, and they are cleansed because they are unintentional. Intention is the key. But on the other hand, sinless perfection is what false teachers claim is totally unattainable for even mature Christians. That is a false doctrine, one that John MacArthur claims we can never attain and laughs and mocks sinless perfection. Never attaining holiness is a doctrine of demons. Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren just like Him. Even Paul who claimed many times to not having reached perfection finally did in his last letter.

2 Timothy 4:
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Peter said it this way,
2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things (verses 5-7) you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Johann]

well…I believe it is possible.

Well..good luck to you then, only Christ is perfect and sinless, and you forgot what sanctification is and being in Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit...but most on this forum have obtained godhood in this life.
Sounds like Joyce Meyer
Which brings this scripture to remembrance


Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I am that publican.
J.

 

[Johann]

I don't teach sinless perfection happening as soon as we are born again. What I teach is being dead to sin, or sinlessness. Perfection takes some a lifetime. Baby Christians commit unintentional sins all the time, and they are cleansed because they are unintentional. Intention is the key. But on the other hand, sinless perfection is what false teachers claim is totally unattainable for even mature Christians. That is a false doctrine, one that John MacArthur claims we can never attain and laughs and mocks sinless perfection. Never attaining holiness is a doctrine of demons. Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren just like Him. Even Paul who claimed many times to not having reached perfection finally did in his last letter.

2 Timothy 4:
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Peter said it this way,
2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things (verses 5-7) you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall; or "sin", as the Vulgate Latin and Arabic versions render it; not that they should never fall at all, or in any sense, for in many things we all offend or fall; or should ever commit any act of sin, or fall into sin, for there is no man that lives, and sins not;


or that they should not fall from a degree of the lively exercise of grace, or from a degree of steadfastness in the doctrine of faith, but that they should never sin the sin against
the Holy Ghost, or fall totally and finally; for though they fall, they should rise again by faith and repentance, through the grace and power of Christ, who is able to keep them from falling: and besides, while they were exercising those graces, and doing those duties, they should not fall;

What are the graces and duties? Can you exegete it for me please.

for these are the means of final perseverance, and therefore the rather to be regarded. Another argument, strengthening the exhortation, follows:
i. This constant emphasis makes Paul’s point clear to Timothy:
• Do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord (2Ti_1:8).
• Hold fast the pattern of sound words (2Ti_1:13).
• The things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men (2Ti_2:2).
• Rightly dividing the word of truth (2Ti_2:15).
• A servant of the Lord must be... able to teach (2Ti_2:24).
• All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2Ti_3:16).
b. Preach the word: As a pastor, Timothy was not required to merely know the word or like the word or approve of the word; he was required to preach the word. The word of God must be preached by Timothy; it was to be the content of his message.
i. Not everyone who opens a Bible and starts talking is preaching the word. Many well-intentioned preachers are actually preaching themselves instead of the word. If the focus is on the funny stories or the touching life experiences of the preacher, he may be preaching himself.

Whatever you teach, don't make Paul a liar and that you are "better" than Paul.
J.

 

[Johann]

So you believe until we are perfect we are not children of God; that as soon as we receive the Holy Spirit we know all the mysteries of God and all his laws and never make any mistakes.

You are a flat out liar.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[Johann]

So you believe until we are perfect we are not children of God; that as soon as we receive the Holy Spirit we know all the mysteries of God and all his laws and never make any mistakes.

The mysteries, seven to them, was given to Paul, you are not Paul.
J.

 

[Johann]

I am speaking of my own experiences of abiding in Christ.

Your own experiences means nothing to me, it is who Christ is and what He did.
J.

 

[farouk]

Then why are these things written?

“Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

And if you’re not perfect God shall not be with you.

Christ gives the believer perfection. But now maintain it; it’s the reasonable thing to do:

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)

@Michiah-Imla Similar verse comes to mind.... "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another." (Romans 14.19)

 

[Lambano]

No, I think @stunnedbygrace had it right. Whether the goal is or is not attainable isn't the point, though I would hope those who believe they already love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love their neighbors as themselves, I do hope they can honestly before God and men assess their own performance in the race.

No, the point is to run this race with trust and perseverance. It's the running, not the grabbing.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If He orders your steps and you don't like your circumstances, it's His fault. If you order your own steps, then you're responsible for your circumstances.

God is sovereign, and we are free and responsible. And I don't know how to resolve that paradox. So Trust is all we have.

You lost me with “His fault.” You don’t order your own steps. You make your plans but it’s God who guides your steps. (It’s a verse.)

If you truly believe God when He says, And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them, then you couldn’t get hung up on “fault.” It doesn’t say He causes some things to work together for the good of and it doesn’t say He causes most things to work together for the good of. It says ALL things.

Joseph’s brothers hatched an evil plan. God used that evil plan and turned it for the good of many, keeping them alive. It played out over many years of the lives of men but we get to read about it.

Satan hatched an evil plan and worked through men to accomplish it and see that Jesus was murdered. Did God work that for your good and mine a few thousand years later?

God allowed me to lose my house, my business, my husband and every cent I had. Eleven very difficult years later and I can look back and see some of what He was working in me and for my good. God didn’t cause my husband to do all he did. My husband made his own plans. But God worked all for my good. (I don’t mean financially as I am still quite poor, but He has replaced it with much better things.) I could finally see that so I told God, You must not give me more money, You must not trust me with it, because if you do, I will flee this hard place and these difficult people, so if You want me here with these people, keep me destitute, because I see what good you have given me and all you have done for me and taught me and let me see and understand.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well..good luck to you then, only Christ is perfect and sinless, and you forgot what sanctification is and being in Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit...but most on this forum have obtained godhood in this life.
Sounds like Joyce Meyer
Which brings this scripture to remembrance


Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I am that publican.
J.

That’s a very good place to be. It’s seeing the truth, admitting the truth, walking in truth and light.
Keep walking that way.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well..good luck to you then, only Christ is perfect and sinless

That is very correct. It’s why the apostle said this:
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith inChrist—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to knowChrist—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,14 I press on toward the goal to win the prizefor which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

 

[Robert Gwin]

But humans who believe the gospel must do these things:

“…reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:11-12)

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13)



You cite Romans 7 as if this is where Paul’s teaching ended. Knowing Paul’s full teaching it is obvious that your charge of Paul struggle with sin is completely false. This lie is repeated often by false teachers so much that many (who don’t frequently read their entire Bibles independently) easily fall into their net.

I am glad you are sinless sir, we all sin, but I hope you are correct. Since you say the Bible says you don't have to sin, and that all sin, may I ask since you likely believe as I do that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, how the verses harmonize, in other words what does it mean to be dead to sin? I say it doesn't mean you will not sin, what do you say it means?