Scripture challenge!

[Mungo]

No, it's phantasy.

No, it didn't. Again you live in phantasy.

The so called Septuagint (LXX) doesn't actually exist. It's actually Sinaiticus (& Vaticanus) from Origen's Hexapla and was never 300 BC, but rather hundreds AD passing itself off based on a discredited myth (Letter of Aristeas).

'Taint no such thing as "the Septuagint". What you are actually referring to is Origen's Hexapla (Catholic).

The so called "Septuagint", really being "septuaginta (plural, with differing translations)" of Origen's Hexapla, Theodotion (6th column), Aquila of Sinope, & Symmachus and really from the sources Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (both of which are not anywhere near 4th C.).

The Septuagint [LXX] as we presently know it, appears first in the writings of Origen [Hexapla] at near the end of the 2nd century AD, and the mention by the so-called "Letter of Aristeas", based on an unfounded and mostly discredited "legend", is seriously problematic.

"... Most of these fables focus on an infamous “book” 14 called the “Letter of Aristeas” 15 (hereafter called the Letter) and the alleged claims of the Letter’s documentation by authors who wrote before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the first few centuries following His first sojourn on earth. 16 The only extant Letter is dated from the eleventh century. In addition, there is no pre-Christian Greek translation of the He-brew Old Testament text, which the Letter alleges, that has been found, in-cluding the texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls. ..." - http://www.theoldpathspublications.com/Downloads/Free/The Septuagint ebook.pdf

"... the story of Aristeas appears comparatively rational. Yet it has long been recognized that much of it is unhistorical, in particular the professed date and nationality of the writer. Its claims to authenticity were demolished by Dr. Hody two centuries ago (De bibliorum textibus originalibus, Oxon., 1705) ..." - The Septuagint, by H. St. J. Thackeray

De bibliorum textibus originalibus - Humfredi Hodii linguae graecae professoris regii et Archidiaconi Oxon. De bibliorum textibus originalibus, versionibus graecis, & latina vulgata libri 4.. : Humphrey Hody : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Other sources, identifying the same - The Septuagint

Was the Septuagint the Bible of Christ and the Apostles?

"... Roman Catholics use the idea that Christ quoted the Septuagint to justly include the Apocrypha in their Bibles. ... Since no Hebrew Old Testament ever included the books of the Apocrypha, the Septuagint is the only source the Catholics have for justifying their canon. Many Reformers and Lutherans wrote at great length refuting the validity of the Septuagint. ..." - http://www.wcbible.org/documents/septuagint.pdf

"... [Page 46] Proponents of the invisible LXX will try to claim that Origen didn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, but only copied the LXX into the second column of his Hexapla. Can this argument be correct? No. If it were, then that would mean that those astute 72 Jewish scholars added the Apocryphal books to their work before they were ever written. (!) Or else, Origen took the liberty to add these spurious writings to God's Holy Word (Rev. 22:18). ...

... Is there ANY Greek manuscript of the Old Testament written BEFORE the time of Christ? Yes. There is one minute scrap dated at 150 BC, the Ryland's Papyrus, #458. It contains Deuteronomy chapters 23-28. No more. No less. If fact, it may be the existence of this fragment that led Eucebius and Philo to assume that the entire Pentatuech had been translated by some scribe in an effort to interest Gentiles in the history of the Jews. ... [page 46]

... [Page 47] If there was an Aristeas, he was faced with two insurmountable problems.

First, how did he ever locate the twelve tribes in order to pick his six representative scholars from each. Having been thoroughly scattered by their many defeats and captivities, the tribal lines of the 12 tribes had long since dissolved into virtual non-existence. It was impossible for anyone to distinctly identify the 12 individual tribes.

Secondly, if the 12 tribes had been identified, they would not have undertaken such a translation for two compelling reasons.

(1) Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare to join such a forbidden enterprise. ..." - The Answer Book, By Sam Gipp, Page 46-47, selected portions, emphasis [bold] in original.

See also The Mythological Septuagint - https://ia801900.us.archive.org/13/items/peter-s-ruckman-the-mythological-septuagint/Peter S Ruckman - The Mythological Septuagint.pdf

See also Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, "Chapter 4, the Mythological LXX" - https://ia801508.us.archive.org/8/items/peter-s-ruckman-the-christians-handbook-of-manuscript-evidence/Peter S Ruckman - The Christian's Handbook of Manuscript Evidence.pdf

1 Jones, The Septuagint: A Critical Analysis, op. cit., pp. 10–54. The reader should, in all fairness, be apprised of the fact that very nearly all references in the literature which allude to the Septuagint in fact pertain to Origen's 5th column. That is, the real LXX from all citation evidence as to N.T. references – indeed, for all practical purposes – the Septuagint that we actually "see" and "use" is found to actually be only two manuscripts, Vaticanus B and Sinaiticus a. This is especially true of Vaticanus. Although this fact is difficult to ferret out from among the vast amount of literature on the subject, it may be verified by numerous sources. Among them, the reader is directed to page 1259 in The New Bible Dictionary op. cit., (Texts-Versions) where D.W. Gooding admits this when he relates that the LXX of Jer.38:40 (Jer.31:40 in the MT) as shown in figure 214 has been taken from the Codex Sinaiticus. Thomas Hartwell Horne is even more direct in An Introduction to the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures, 9th ed., Vol. II, (London, Eng.: Spottiswoode and Shaw, 1846), fn. 1. p. 282 and fn. 3 p. 288. It has been established that both were produced from Origen's 5th column. Thus, the Septuagint which we actually utilize in practical outworking, the LXX which is cited almost ninety percent of the time, is actually the LXX that was written more than 250 years after the completion of the New Testament canon – and by a "Catholicized Jehovah's Witness" at that! Moreover, it must be seen that the testimony of these two corrupted manuscripts is almost solely responsible for the errors being foisted upon the Holy Scriptures in both Testaments by modern critics! - Footnote 1, Which Version?, by Floyd Nolen Jones, 20th edition page 129 [PDF] - https://ia601901.us.archive.org/9/items/floyd-nolen-jones-which-version-is-the-bible/Floyd Nolen Jones - Which Version Is The Bible.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1mi_RcSLQ8

Stop living according to deception, and embrace truth.

Your posts are a combination of insults, lies and fantasy.
It seems you do not want an honest discussion so I shall put you on my ignore list.
Goodbye.

 

[theefaith]

Read the context of Luke:

Luk 1:35: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

Luk 1:46: "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,"

Luk 1:47: "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."

Luk 1:48: "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."

so one thing is the miraculous conception of Jesus by the HS
What’s the other?
Things plural.

 

[theefaith]

In Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4, the Bible (KJB) specifically states that God spoke and wrote "the ten commandments".

In Exodus 20:1-17 & Deuteronomy 5:4-22, both God and Moses state those "ten commandments".

Both Jesus, Paul and others in the NT show the delineation of the ten commandments.

As for instance, Jesus, in Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20, does something wonderful for the rich young ruler:

Mar 10:19: "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother."

Luk 18:20: "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."

Jesus is specifically listing the commandments about love of neighbor (Leviticus 19:17-18), which were on the second table of stone.

So Jesus, trying to help the rich young ruler see his error by showing the surrounding commandments, so that the rich young ruler would fill in the blank.

The Final, or Tenth Commandment, is purposefully left out by Jesus, being the commandment on Covetous ness; Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21.

Even Paul lists the commandments on love of neighbor this way:

Rom 13:9: "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

Paul lists honouring of Father and Mother as its own commandment:

Eph 6:2: "Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise"

Paul even told us that it was "the first commandment" on the second table (love neighbor), "with promise".

According to scripture, the number "6" (as in six commandments on the second table) is the number of man, Genesis - Revelation.

This means that Honouring Father and Mother is the first commandment on the
Second Table, and since there are six commands we simply look at Exodus 20 & Deuteronomy 5 and see:

(SECOND TABLE)
1 (5) Honour Father & Mother
2 (6) No Killing
3 (7) No Adultery
4 (8) No stealing
5 (9) No bearing false witness
6 (10) No coveting

This means automatically that on the first Table are 4 Commandments.

Paul lists idolatry as an individual command, as he lists adultery as it's own command, and yet links the two, one command from each of the Two Tables.

Rom 2:22: "Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?"

John does the same when listing murder and idolatry and lying as individual commands:

Rev 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Rev 22:15: "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Acts 17:29: "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."

We also know that when the Israelites were at Mt Sinai they made a golden image of a beast that was to represent, not a false god, but was to represent the True God, which means that idolatry and having other gods are separate and distinct commandments:

Exo 32:5: "And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD."

Paul specifically mentions the commandment about God's name and not to blaspheme it:

Rom 2:24: "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."

1Tim 6:1: "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed."

Luke specifically records that the Sabbath is a commandment:

Luk 23:56: "And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."

Paul specifically mentions the commandment about having no gods besides God:

Acts 19:26: "Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:"

Gal 4:8: "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods."

(TABLE ONE)

1 (1) No other gods before God
2 (2) No idols
3 (3) No taking LORD'S name in vain
4 (4) Keep the Sabbath, the 7th day Holy

Thus they are "the ten commandments" and clearly delineated by scripture.

there still is no actual list in scripture

 

[theefaith]

Read Luke & Acts:

Luk 1:1: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,"

Luk 1:2: "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;"

Luk 1:3: "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"

Luk 1:4: "That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

Acts 1:1: "The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,"

Acts 1:2: "Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

All that Jesus taught and did that is needful for the Christian is in the Bible (KJB), the word of God which the Holy Ghost, from Jesus, leads us into, John 17:17.

Thus a Christian is not to go beyond the word of God, since it is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice (Isa. 8:20; 2 Tim. 3:16-17):

1Pet 4:11: "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Read Luke & Acts:

Luk 1:1: "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,"

Luk 1:2: "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;"

Luk 1:3: "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"

Luk 1:4: "That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

Acts 1:1: "The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,"

Acts 1:2: "Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:"

All that Jesus taught and did that is needful for the Christian is in the Bible (KJB), the word of God which the Holy Ghost, from Jesus, leads us into, John 17:17.


The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority


Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16


Scripture challenge!

Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?

1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.

2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.

3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20

4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?



Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!


Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.

Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)

Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.

WHEN???

When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?

When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?

When it was taught by the apostles?

When it was Written down decades latter?

When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?

When did it become the inspired word of God?

If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!

If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!

It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.

Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!

The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons!










Questions about the doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is our only authority”?

How can we know what is scripture?

How can we know what is not scripture?

How can we safeguard and protect scripture from errors?

Who has authority to teach scripture without error?

Where does scripture say: “the Bible alone”?

Why does scripture support tradition? The teaching authority of the apostles?

Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?

Where does it say the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”?

Why does scripture teach the authority of Christ in His church in the persons of the apostles?
AKA The Apostolic Tradition (teaching)

 

[theefaith]

Another tiresome thread to promote "Holy Tradition"? Why do you bother with the Bible? The Catholic church suppressed it for centuries, and you would love to go back to that time wouldn't you?

"Now the Church of Rome would seem at the length to bear a motherly affection towards her children, and to allow them the Scriptures in their mother tongue: but indeed it is a gift, not deserving to be called a gift, an unprofitable gift: they must first get a licence in writing before they may use them, and to get that, they must approve themselves to their Confessor, that is, to be such as are, if not frozen in the dregs, yet soured with the leaven of their superstition. Howbeit, it seemed too much to Clement the Eighth that there should be any Licence granted to have them in the vulgar [common] tongue, and therefore he overruleth and frustrateth the grant of Pius the Fourth. So much are they afraid of the light of the Scripture, (Lucifugae Scripturarum, as Tertulian speaketh) that they will not trust the people with it, no not as it is set forth by their own sworn men, no not with the Licence of their own Bishops and Inquisitors. Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the people's understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confess, that we forced them to translate it into English against their wills. This seemeth to argue a bad cause, or a bad conscience, or both. Sure we are, that it is not he that hath good gold, that is afraid to bring it to the touchstone, but he that hath the counterfeit; neither is it the true man that shunneth the light, but the malefactor, lest his deeds should be reproved [John 3:20]: neither is it the plain-dealing Merchant that is unwilling to have the weights, or the meteyard brought in place, but he that useth deceit. But we will let them alone for this fault, and return to translation." -- The Translators to the Reader (Preface to the King James Bible)

we must be taught
Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19
Without the errors of the Protestants Jn 16:13

 

[ReChoired]

As I said in my post

Yes, "updated" from 2+2=4, to 2+2=5. See the evil Jesuit semantics you play? You attempt 'positive' sounding words, but then insert your own definitions into those words to make them mean the complete opposite of or pervert what they etymologically mean. When you say "updated" it really means "corrupted" to come into harmony with Roman Catholicism's apostate heresies.

 

[ReChoired]

we must be taught
Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19
Without the errors of the Protestants Jn 16:13

Yes, the apostles spoke (audible) that which was already written (visible):

Luk 1:2: "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;"

1Pet 4:11: "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

1Cor 14:32: "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."

Isa 8:20: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

All which is spoken must agree with what is already written.

The Holy Ghost Himself must agree with the word, for He leads not away from truth but into all truth:

John 17:17: "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

The papacy and popedom is not truth but rather is that great unclean whore of Revelation.

 

[ReChoired]

See post #11

See post 16 - Scripture challenge!

 

[ReChoired]

Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?

God alone. Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; Luke 24:45; Isaiah 28:10,13; Daniel 2:18-30, etc.

Not you.
Not me.
Not any 'pope'.

God alone.

Solus Deus.

You have the same mindset as satan, who thinks that God needs assistance to interpret His own word. God already defined His word in the word.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, "updated" from 2+2=4, to 2+2=5. See the evil Jesuit semantics you play? You attempt 'positive' sounding words, but then insert your own definitions into those words to make them mean the complete opposite of or pervert what they etymologically mean. When you say "updated" it really means "corrupted" to come into harmony with Roman Catholicism's apostate heresies.

please be specific what heresies?

 

[theefaith]

Papacy

isa 22/21-22 Matt 16/18-19

the church came first before the New Testament, exercised authority of Christ before the New Testament and wrote the New Testament, the scripture are the possession of the church!


Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23

Eph 5: 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.






1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!


Acts 2:42 does not say; they held fast to thier personal private judgement of the “Bible alone” but the doctrine of the apostles.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14


Nature of the church!

Christ is the one who is right!

Jn 14:6 I am the truth!

and this must extend to his church! 1 Tim 3:15

Christ is the light! Jn 8:12
And this must extend to His church! Matt 5:14

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This must extend to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all men!

5) The nature of the church!

The church does not require scripture to know the truths revealed by God! Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15

Church is eternal! Lk 1:32-33

Christ and His apostolic church are one! Matt 5:14 Jn 15:1 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 1 Tim 3:15

The holy church is a Perfect society founded by Christ for the salvation of all men!

And to Faithfully transmit and saintly safeguard the deposit of faith!

No one has authority from Christ except His church of the apostles to define and declare truth!

Scripture is the possession of the church!

All of divine revelation is the word of God and thee faith given to the church of the apostles by Christ
to safeguard against all error, and
to faithfully teach all nations!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” is heresy and is opposed by the scriptures. Matt 16:28-19 Matt 18:18 Jn 29:21-23 Acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The church is an extension of Christ who taught the truth, and the church is commanded to teach all nations these same truths called the deposit of faith! Matt 28:19 Jude 1:3

All scripture came by tradition!

By divine, apostolic, and inspired human tradition that is verified by the apostolic tradition!

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter & the apostles received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his church!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Or the apostolic tradition! Acts 2:42

All men Must be taught, or instructed, Lk 1:4 acts 8:31 and hear the church Matt 18:17 and the church is the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 cos Christ and his apostolic church are one!
Matt 5:14 , Jn 15:5, Acts 9:4, Eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by his apostolic church. Matt 28:19

The holy church does not require scripture to know the truth cos the church received the “deposit of faith” Jude 1:3 from Christ in person and the church of the apostles by apostolic authority and inspired human authority wrote the scriptures, and the apostolic authority verified them, declared what is inspired scripture, and what is not the inspired scripture, as an example the gospel of Thomas is not inspired scripture but the gospel of Matthew is inspired scripture.

The deposit of faith, the entire divine revelation and word of God is given to the church of the apostles by Christ to safeguard against all error!
And to faithfully teach all nations!
Jude 1:3, Matt 28:19

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his apostles!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Must hear the church Matt 18:17 the church is the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 cos Christ and his apostolic church are one!
Matt 5:14
Jn 15:5
Acts 9:4
eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by his apostolic church Matt 28:19

The church does not require scripture to know truth cos the church received the “deposit of faith” Jude 1:3 from Christ in person and the church of the apostles by apostolic authority and inspired human authority wrote the scriptures.

Scripture is the possession of the church! Used for the needs and purposes in the church!

All new testament Scripture was written by the church!


Divine revelation or the word of God! Handed to His church of the apostles by Christ! Jude 1:3
To safeguard against all error!
To faithfully teach all nations!
Matt 28:19

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10


The church is an extension of Christ!
You cannot be united to Christ apart from His holy church!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Saul was persecuting the church, and Christ said “why persecute me”? Acts 9:4

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

The church and the apostles exist by his commands and authority! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

An attack on the church is an attack on Christ!

There is an unbreakable union between Christ and His Holy Church!


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Gates of hell shall NOT PREVAIL!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jn 20:21-23

Eph 5: 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, the apostles spoke (audible) that which was already written (visible):

Luk 1:2: "Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;"

1Pet 4:11: "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

1Cor 14:32: "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."

Isa 8:20: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

All which is spoken must agree with what is already written.

The Holy Ghost Himself must agree with the word, for He leads not away from truth but into all truth:

John 17:17: "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."

The papacy and popedom is not truth but rather is that great unclean whore of Revelation.

no it’s the pagan Roman Empire conquered by Christ and his church
Dan 2:44

 

[ReChoired]

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Strawman. Sola Scriptura does not mean that the Bible is the "only source of authority". That is a false construction of what Sola Scriptura means. It actually means that the Bible is the "final" authority in all matters of Faith and Practice. All authorities (Holy Ghost, angelic, men, parents, Ecclesiastical, political, visions, dreams, prophets, priests and Kings, etc.) are subject to the word (Bible).

 

[ReChoired]

please be specific what heresies?

Subject of the OP to start, why address others when you cannot admit that heresy first?

 

[ReChoired]

Papacy

If you are just going to spam, and not speak with me, in reply to what I have stated and shared, I will leave you to your darkness.

 

[theefaith]

God alone. Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; Luke 24:45; Isaiah 28:10,13; Daniel 2:18-30, etc.

Not you.
Not me.
Not any 'pope'.

God alone.

Solus Deus.

You have the same mindset as satan, who thinks that God needs assistance to interpret His own word. God already defined His word in the word.

christ is the source of truth or rule of faith Jn 1:16-17

The church is an extension of Christ!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[ReChoired]

Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ

Non sequitur to OP. Not in disagreement. It is already agreed and given. To repeat is to waste space and time.

 

[theefaith]

God alone. Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20; Luke 24:45; Isaiah 28:10,13; Daniel 2:18-30, etc.

Not you.
Not me.
Not any 'pope'.

God alone.

Solus Deus.

You have the same mindset as satan, who thinks that God needs assistance to interpret His own word. God already defined His word in the word.

so you agree we are not to read scripture for ourselves and make our own doctrine faith or churches?

 

[ReChoired]

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Bold claim of Roman Catholicism, but when examined, is found false.

Peter, etal in Acts 2 were quoting scripture as final authority, like Joel, Psalms, David.

You say you follow in the Apostles doctrine from Acts 2? Oh really???

Where is David (the person/being) right now according to Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost?

You do not believe it, nor teach it.

 

[ReChoired]

so you agree we are not to read scripture for ourselves

Not sure what you mean by the question. Ask another way. We were speaking about interpretation, not reading. Two different things. I do not desire to have the two confused.

and make our own doctrine faith or churches?

No, of course not. We are not to "make our own doctrine (teaching), faith (beliefs) or churches (bodies apart from Christ's true Body)".