Scripture, God's Greatest Gift to Mankind

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mjrhealth

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How do you know about Jesus?

How do you know about grace?

How do you know Jesus is the word of God?

How do you know there is a God?

How did Saul know who Jesus was, He met Him on the road to damascus, IS the bible greater than Jesus, who is it who saves, the bible or Christ. in whom is our life, the bible or Christ. men get so upset when there idols are reveled.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I am thinking his intention is to say the Word Is the Greatest Gift because in the beginning was the Word ....and the Word was with God...and the Word Was God....and the Word was made flesh....and the Word is a living Word.
So the Word and Jesus are the same...Amen?
That's not the impression I get from reading Anthony's posts.
 

marksman

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We would not know anything about the person and work of The Lord Jesus Christ without the God-given scriptures which are quickened to believers.
We would have no true knowledge that could be used to save us without scripture.

18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


jn.17;17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The New Testament Church did not have the New Testament so how did they learn about Jesus?
 

Pearl

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Hello Pearl,
Which Jesus?
the scripture speaks of another jesus.
How do we know who Jesus is?
How do we know His attributes?
What did He do on our behalf?
Without scripture can you have a true knowledge of who He is and What He has done?
I'm not going there mate.
 

charity

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@Anthony D'Arienzo (reply#45):-
The purpose of this thread is to clearly demonstrate that man having died spiritually in Adam's fall, is as you say in a sinful alienated condition. What does that mean? It means the mind, will, and emotions of all men everywhere are twisted and perverted by sin.

Hello Anthony,

Thank you for your response in reply#45, I agree with what you have said within it concerning the Word of God.

Romans 1:18-32 gives a graphic description of man's condition doesn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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CadyandZoe

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NT scripture does not say Jesus is a gift, the closes statement is where Paul states
Eph_4:7  But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
but this verse in context speaks of gifts unto His of Christ.

so, as Jesus says:


Joh_4:10  Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

the apostles explain:

Peter:
Act_2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul:
Rom_6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

the Holy Spirit which is the seal unto eternal Life or "salvation", is the gift of God, God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son but its only through and in the Son Jesus Christ a man can be loved by God. note Jesus is at the Right Hand of Power you don't see Him in the world, yet. hence it is the Gift of the Holy Spirit, and all that is therein.


interesting how he who praises scripture, knows not the truth therein. one can be found by God and know God the Father through the Son without scripture. but the many who are aware of scripture don't know God.
Is it possible that God gave us more than one gift?
 
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charity

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'But I fear, lest by any means,
as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
whom we have not preached,
or if ye receive another spirit,
which ye have not received,
or another gospel,
which ye have not accepted,
ye might well bear with him.'

(2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

Hello @Anthony D'Arienzo,

You referred in a previous post to the verses above, and the preaching of 'another Jesus'. I agree that the only way to be sure of the truth of what you hear from the pulpit or read in commentaries concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and the gospel message is by using the same principle that the Bereans in Acts 17 were commended for:-

'These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily,
whether those things were so.
Therefore many of them believed; ... '

(Acts 17:12a)

* Paul in his ministry described in the book of Acts, always reasoned from the Scriptures, he did not use his own reasoning (eg., Acts 17:2) : and the gospel he preached during that period, was as described in Romans 1:1-4:-

'Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
called to be an apostle,
separated unto the gospel of God,
(Which He had promised afore by His prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead: ... '

* However, the principle adopted by the Bereans in Acts 17 would have been of no use when hearing the later ministry of Paul concerning Christ risen and glorified: and Head of the Church which is the Body of Christ; given to Paul by Divine revelation as the Prisoner of Jesus Christ for the Gentiles, for that knowledge was not the subject of the Old Testament Scriptures; and so could not be searched out. Yes, the later epistles of Paul (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy, & Titus) contain the unsearchable riches of Christ.

* The principles to be adopted in regard to this revelation of God is that found in 2 Timothy 2:15:-


'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'


* Thereby recognising the change in the administration of God which takes place as the new dispensation of grace begins: when Israel is set aside (temporarily) in blindness and unbelief at Acts 28:25-28; with the quotation from Isaiah 6:9-10, and salvation is sent unto the Gentiles.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris




 
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marksman

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Scripture Is Pure, Enlightening the Eyes Psalm 19:8 gives a fourth characteristic of Scripture’s utter sufficiency: “The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.” “Commandment” stresses the Bible’s non-optional nature. It is not a book of suggestions. Its divine mandates are authoritative and binding. Those who treat it lightly place themselves in eternal peril. Those who take it seriously find eternal blessing. “Pure” could better be translated “lucid”—Scripture is not mystifying, confusing, or puzzling. The synonym “clear” is best. God’s Word is a revelation—a revealing of truth to make the dark things light, bringing eternity into bright focus.
Granted, some things in Scripture are hard to understand (2 Pet 3:16). But taken as a whole, the Bible is not a bewildering book. Scripture, because of its absolute clarity, brings understanding in place of ignorance, order in place of confusion, and light in place of spiritual and moral darkness. It stands in stark contrast to the muddled musings of unredeemed men, who themselves are blind and unable to discern truth or live righteously. God’s Word clearly reveals the blessed, hopeful truths they can never see.

Where did that last quote come from?

And try using paragraphs as it makes for easier reading.
 

marksman

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There is absolutely no doubt that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's UNSPEAKABLE GIFT to mankind. That means that He is God's gift above all gifts. Therefore Paul says "Thanks be unto God for His Unspeakable [ἀνεκδιηγήτῳ (anekdiēgētō) = indescribable) Gift".

But this thread is not meant to dispute the supremacy of Christ and God. It is meant to confirm that among all things that exist on earth, the Holy Bible is God's greatest gift, since it causes sinners to receive the gift of eternal life through the Gospel.

NO BIBLE = NO GOSPEL = NO OFFER OF ETERNAL LIFE

And it is through the preaching of the Gospel that saving faith is generated in human hearts (Rom 10:17). And that saving faith brings men to Christ. See the entire chapter of Romans 10.

I have read a book written by a Wycliffe Bible Translator where he and his family went to a tribe with an unknown language. They studied the people and picked up the basics of the language personally by talking. From this they explained the gospel to them and some were converted.

Once this had happened they set about committing their language to paper and the bible with the local converts helping with the translating. It took them about 40 years to do the whole of the New Testament. Whilst all this was going on the gospel was shared and the natives were converted.

So it is not true to say No Bible = No gospel = No offer of eternal life.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"Heart2Soul,


Hello H2S
Hey brother, no man cometh to the Father except that he is drawn by the Holy Spirit...

Jn Jn6:37-44 speaks of people coming to Jesus. Those given to Jesus by the Father.

so the Power of the Holy Spirit to touch our hearts is the start...
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

God may choose to send an Angel to minister to someone....

Angels do minister to those who are heirs of salvation
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


it is the spoken word that has power...

I know you live in an area that had extensive teaching of some people, where they would suggest this, "Rhema words". I leave any power up to God. The word of God has power when used by the Spirit, spoken, read, meditated on...read all of psalm 119, psalm 1.
We should be able to write those psalms about our lives and thoughts before God.


John the Baptist never had a Bible..

Does the bible say that? He had been instructed concerning the Kingdom of God. he had been instructed in the law because he knew men had to repent. In mt3 we read this;

Matthew 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

The OT.Scriptures were the bible of that day. He had it, He knew it.
.he simply went from place to place testifying and calling people to repent and be baptized for the Messiah has come

Notice in verse9;
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


He was familiar with the promises of the covenant of grace, looking for the promised seed. the description of his clothing paints a picture of him being a bit eccentric, but Jesus had a different view of him. He defined him by OT. scriptures, not just a random person wandering around getting feelings and impressions.
mt11;
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 

Enoch111

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From this they explained the gospel to them and some were converted.
And pray tell where did they get this Gospel from in the first place? So once again:

NO BIBLE = NO GOSPEL = NO GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE OFFERED
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"Jane_Doe22,

[I'm sorry, but this theology.... I can't give a respectful reply to this.]

No need to be sorry JD. We are mostly here to discuss and interact with biblical teaching, ideas, and principles. If we all were in agreement we would know everything, but we do not.
The word of God itself is powerful;
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Suffice it to say I passionately disagree,
That is okay. I would rather interact with sincere and honest posters, who are passionate about the truth of scripture. I have known many who fought against the truth in such a way, and in time they become the biggest defenders of the truth. Any dead fish can float downstream. We are to be about Kingdom concerns as found in the word 24/7.
Jeremiah 20:9
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

Saul was passionate, but misguided, until God gave him a new heart, and changed him into Paul.
I do not have any patience with any who lie, and bear false witness however.
When a person replaces the words of a poster it is an evil attempt to discredit a person, it is a lie.
Such wilful sin is not characteristic of true Christians.


[and find to it be contradictory to God's Truth.]

Okay. That is why we do not agree at this time. I think we might agree more if you answer what you called "those rhetorical questions".
i say that because honest answers to those questions will clarify the issue.


[it's Christ that saves a person.]
Yes indeed. He saves all the Father has given to him. No one has posted other
wise.

[It's God that testifies of Truth.]

Now we are getting there! He does so in scripture, that is why it is the greatest gift.
We have it, we study it, meditate all with a view to grow in grace, knowledge, love, and service.


[A person is not saved by their ability to ace a theology test.]

No they are not, but they are not saved by failing a theology test either.
People are to come to know the True and living God as He is made known to them.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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"mjrhealth,

[How did Saul know who Jesus was, He met Him on the road to damascus,]

He had studied and been trained in the scriptures for most of his life.
I learned many things, ie, facts about God.
It was not until God made himself known to me through reading a bible that Iwas convicted of my sin, and prayed for Him to have mercy on me.

[IS the bible greater than Jesus, who is it who saves, the bible or Christ.]

Without the bible we do not know who He is. We do not know His name, we do not know His person and work. We would not know who is the Creator, creation, the fall, the promised seed.

[in whom is our life, the bible or Christ.]
Without the bible, you cannot define the term Christ!
What is a Christ?
Why is there a need of one?

Get an index card and write down what you know about God that is not found in scripture!


[men get so upset when there idols are reveled.]

Most use philosophy, carnal philosophy, along with self-righteousness instead of scripture.
 

FollowHim

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We would not know anything about the person and work of The Lord Jesus Christ without the God-given scriptures which are quickened to believers.
We would have no true knowledge that could be used to save us without scripture.

18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


jn.17;17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

In a sense the word of God is Jesus in human form.
Scripture is a history of mans response to God and His word.

It lays out how fundamentally man in lost even when the Lord is right in front of them.
Israel saved out of Egypt in a wonderful way, Moses up a mountain, make an idol and party.....
Jesus heals 10 lepers, changing their lives, only one returns to say thank you.....
Judas who knew it all, betrayed His Lord and Saviour.

This is all needed to teach us how emotionally our conclusions are rebellion and self justification, while we claim we are innocent.
It demonstrates to me, even believers do not see if Jesus returned many would hate Him, because their emotional conclusions are still sinful and in the world, not in faith, love and an open heart, purified and cleansed, walking in the Spirit.

God bless you
 

Jane_Doe22

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"Jane_Doe22,

[I'm sorry, but this theology.... I can't give a respectful reply to this.]

No need to be sorry JD. We are mostly here to discuss and interact with biblical teaching, ideas, and principles. If we all were in agreement we would know everything, but we do not.
The word of God itself is powerful;
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Suffice it to say I passionately disagree,
That is okay. I would rather interact with sincere and honest posters, who are passionate about the truth of scripture. I have known many who fought against the truth in such a way, and in time they become the biggest defenders of the truth. Any dead fish can float downstream. We are to be about Kingdom concerns as found in the word 24/7.
Jeremiah 20:9
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

Saul was passionate, but misguided, until God gave him a new heart, and changed him into Paul.
I do not have any patience with any who lie, and bear false witness however.
When a person replaces the words of a poster it is an evil attempt to discredit a person, it is a lie.
Such wilful sin is not characteristic of true Christians.


[and find to it be contradictory to God's Truth.]

Okay. That is why we do not agree at this time. I think we might agree more if you answer what you called "those rhetorical questions".
i say that because honest answers to those questions will clarify the issue.


[it's Christ that saves a person.]
Yes indeed. He saves all the Father has given to him. No one has posted other
wise.

[It's God that testifies of Truth.]

Now we are getting there! He does so in scripture, that is why it is the greatest gift.
We have it, we study it, meditate all with a view to grow in grace, knowledge, love, and service.


[A person is not saved by their ability to ace a theology test.]

No they are not, but they are not saved by failing a theology test either.
People are to come to know the True and living God as He is made known to them.
Suffice it to say I find your beliefs here to be contrary to scripture and God’s Truth and twisted and dishonest. Very passionately so. I can’t find a way to discuss such without strong language and this has been going no where from the start.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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The New Testament Church did not have the New Testament so how did they learn about Jesus?

OT.Scriptures
Jesus taught them here in luke;24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
 
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FollowHim

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Going to be blunt here:
God's greatest gift is His Son Jesus Christ. He alone saves.
We worship the Almighty God and nothing else.
Scripture is super super important, but we shouldn't worship it or try to place it above God Himself.
Additionally, scripture is only properly understood through the power of God, testifying through His Spirit. Without God and His Spirit, scripture is just a frequently printed paper weight.
God is the almighty. He is as He is. He is not defined by our flawed understandings of Him.

There is a concept underpinning your observation, as if you can separate Gods revelation in Christ into distinct things. Gods word is scripture, is Jesus, is His people, is angels, is creation, is everything in our lives. God spoke us into being, we are founded in Christ through and of Him.

In this flow of creation scripture is one expression, Jesus is another. Jesus the man was a created body, though His essence was eternal, he was clothed in a mortal frame.

Scripture reveals to us this revelation, the context and speaks to our hearts. A river that floods down a valley is part of the whole, and it is part of Gods love, His outward flowing of revelation and grace to all mankind.

The words are just words, but in a believing heart they are alive and feed them.

Praise the Lord for His word, Amen
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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"FollowHim,

[In a sense the word of God is Jesus in human form.
Scripture is a history of mans response to God and His word.]

Yes which makes it puzzling at the level of resistance that the scripture is receiving here.
It cannot be separated from our whole view of reality itself! God as Creator defines reality for us in SCRIPTURE.


[It lays out how fundamentally man is lost even when the Lord is right in front of them.]

Yes. Mankind is totally depraved
the results of the fall;
From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary by W.R.Downing, used by permission
Further, we must understand that the Fall has affected the thought– processes of man, and his perception of spiritual realities is either very limited or distorted by sin [the noetic effects of sin, from the Gk. noeō, “to perceive, understand.” Fallen man’s intellectual and moral thought–process and judgment have been crippled by the Fall. Cf. Rom. 1:21–25; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 4:17–19].


[Israel saved out of Egypt in a wonderful way, Moses up a mountain, make an idol and party.....
Jesus heals 10 lepers, changing their lives, only one returns to say thank you.....
Judas who knew it all, betrayed His Lord and Saviour.]

It is only the longsuffering of God, that we are not destroyed. His eternal love set upon the elect.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.


[This is all needed to teach us how emotionally our conclusions are rebellion and self justification, while we claim we are innocent.
It demonstrates to me, even believers do not see if Jesus returned many would hate Him, because their emotional conclusions are still sinful and in the world, not in faith, love and an open heart, purified and cleansed, walking in the Spirit.]


Well said. Your thinking is biblical here, that is why you see it clearly. Thanks for this thought-provoking post.
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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There is a concept underpinning your observation, as if you can separate Gods revelation in Christ into distinct things. Gods word is scripture, is Jesus, is His people, is angels, is creation, is everything in our lives. God spoke us into being, we are founded in Christ through and of Him.

In this flow of creation scripture is one expression, Jesus is another. Jesus the man was a created body, though His essence was eternal, he was clothed in a mortal frame.

Scripture reveals to us this revelation, the context and speaks to our hearts. A river that floods down a valley is part of the whole, and it is part of Gods love, His outward flowing of revelation and grace to all mankind.

The words are just words, but in a believing heart they are alive and feed them.

Praise the Lord for His word, Amen

Thank you for another substantial post!