Scripture, God's Greatest Gift to Mankind

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Anthony D'Arienzo

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I'm not going there mate.
Hello Pearl,
If you are not comfortable with the questions and do not want to go there, that is okay.
The purpose of this thread is to provoke thought, biblical thought.
I believe on one of these threads I mentioned that I also reacted in a similar way when a pastor challenged my thinking on this.
I like many responded with a knee jerk reaction and demanded he see that it was Jesus, the blood, and the cross.
He was patient with me and walked me through some of the same questions I am introducing here.

As time permits, get out a legal pad or notebook and write down the questions asked on this thread. Take a confession of faith like this; and write down anything you know about any of those topics that you did not learn from scripture.
The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
  1. Of the Holy Scriptures
  2. Of God and the Holy Trinity
  3. Of God's Decree
  4. Of Creation
  5. Of Divine Providence
  6. Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof
  7. Of God's Covenant
  8. Of Christ the Mediator
  9. Of Free Will
  10. Of Effectual Calling
  11. Of Justification
  12. Of Adoption
  13. Of Sanctification
  14. Of Saving Faith
  15. Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation
  16. Of Good Works
  17. Of the Perseveraance of the Saints
  18. Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
  19. Of the Law of God
  20. Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof
  21. Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience
  22. Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
  23. Of Lawful Oaths and Vows
  24. Of the Civil Magistrate
  25. Of Marriage
  26. Of the Church
  27. Of the Communion of Saints
  28. Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper
  29. Of Baptism
  30. Of the Lord's Supper
  31. Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
  32. Of the Last Judgement
 

FollowHim

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Thank you for another substantial post!

I have a confession. I once thought I understood Gods word, like the stories, the interplay was taken on board processed and constrained. I got bored of sermons, of people expounding one idea and then another. But something in me changed. I started to see connections everywhere. One emphasis here, another there, a flow of one thing into another, a truth or perspective in this verse balanced with another perspective from another.

My enemies use one position, polarised to make the opposite view evil. Then it dawns both are right in their context, and also both could be wrong in another. Jumping on either side can lead into sin, and who loves Gods people sinning and disputing?

So through love I began to see this is a whole, one infinite complex whole, with touches of emphasis, not absolute and exact, but choice and freedom, caring and love, relationship and reaching out and sharing with the group moving forward.

So Jesus just before the final week speaks to Moses and Elijah. God sees Job and talks with satan as to the example he is setting. Jesus asks us to agree our action, one with another and He will anoint. If we decide in His will to proceed there He will be. There is an interplay we barely know in the world or can conceive that creation is run this way. And Gods word opens up this world to us. But it takes a long time to see this, to feel it, to let the examples penetrate ones heart and soul, to finally know the Lords heart. We are so insecure, alone, isolated, defended, untrusting, want certainty with no risk, which is simply the opposite of where God is.

It is also almost the opposite of the "I will prove God exists" group, because that is not the lostness of mankind, it is "I hate God" group that is the real issue. God bless you
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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I have a confession. I once thought I understood Gods word, like the stories, the interplay was taken on board processed and constrained. I got bored of sermons, of people expounding one idea and then another. But something in me changed. I started to see connections everywhere. One emphasis here, another there, a flow of one thing into another, a truth or perspective in this verse balanced with another perspective from another.

My enemies use one position, polarised to make the opposite view evil. Then it dawns both are right in their context, and also both could be wrong in another. Jumping on either side can lead into sin, and who loves Gods people sinning and disputing?

So through love I began to see this is a whole, one infinite complex whole, with touches of emphasis, not absolute and exact, but choice and freedom, caring and love, relationship and reaching out and sharing with the group moving forward.

So Jesus just before the final week speaks to Moses and Elijah. God sees Job and talks with satan as to the example he is setting. Jesus asks us to agree our action, one with another and He will anoint. If we decide in His will to proceed there He will be. There is an interplay we barely know in the world or can conceive that creation is run this way. And Gods word opens up this world to us. But it takes a long time to see this, to feel it, to let the examples penetrate ones heart and soul, to finally know the Lords heart. We are so insecure, alone, isolated, defended, untrusting, want certainty with no risk, which is simply the opposite of where God is.

It is also almost the opposite of the "I will prove God exists" group, because that is not the lostness of mankind, it is "I hate God" group that is the real issue. God bless you
yes, it brings portions of scripture to mind;
Lk9
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

It was known and certain, before it came to pass.
Hebrews9;
23
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

 

charity

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I have read a book written by a Wycliffe Bible Translator where he and his family went to a tribe with an unknown language. They studied the people and picked up the basics of the language personally by talking. From this they explained the gospel to them and some were converted.

Once this had happened they set about committing their language to paper and the bible with the local converts helping with the translating. It took them about 40 years to do the whole of the New Testament. Whilst all this was going on the gospel was shared and the natives were converted.

So it is not true to say No Bible = No gospel = No offer of eternal life
.

Hello @marksman,

But is it not true that the man who went to that tribe had his own copy of the word of God with Him, and he himself must have had the word of God dwelling in him richly, so that he was able to minister the gospel of the grace of God to them, by the Holy Spirit. It was the word of God that he passed on to them. For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Thank you for sharing.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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marksman,

[I have read a book written by a Wycliffe Bible Translator where he and his family went to a tribe with an unknown language. They studied the people and picked up the basics of the language personally by talking. From this they explained the gospel to them and some were converted.

Once this had happened they set about committing their language to paper and the bible with the local converts helping with the translating. It took them about 40 years to do the whole of the New Testament. Whilst all this was going on the gospel was shared and the natives were converted.

So it is not true to say No Bible = No gospel = No offer of eternal life]

Do you believe the missionary had no training? Every missionary I know is fluent in the bible.
Any serious Christian who does not have a mental defect can speak bible to a random stranger without having it in their hands;I will ask you what I asked pearl;


As time permits, get out a legal pad or notebook and write down the questions asked on this thread. Take a confession of faith like this; and write down anything you know about any of those topics that you did not learn from scripture.
The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
  1. Of the Holy Scriptures
  2. Of God and the Holy Trinity
  3. Of God's Decree
  4. Of Creation
  5. Of Divine Providence
  6. Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof
  7. Of God's Covenant
  8. Of Christ the Mediator
  9. Of Free Will
  10. Of Effectual Calling
  11. Of Justification
  12. Of Adoption
  13. Of Sanctification
  14. Of Saving Faith
  15. Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation
  16. Of Good Works
  17. Of the Perseveraance of the Saints
  18. Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
  19. Of the Law of God
  20. Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof
  21. Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience
  22. Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
  23. Of Lawful Oaths and Vows
  24. Of the Civil Magistrate
  25. Of Marriage
  26. Of the Church
  27. Of the Communion of Saints
  28. Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper
  29. Of Baptism
  30. Of the Lord's Supper
  31. Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
  32. Of the Last Judgement
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Charity

[Thank you for your response in reply#45, I agree with what you have said within it concerning the Word of God.

Romans 1:18-32 gives a graphic description of man's condition doesn't it?]

The Fall was devasting to mankind.
Remember Satan sought to put doubt in the minds of Adam and Eve asking..has God said.
Romans 1 shows quite graphically how sin spread faster than the corona Virus.

3 times we are told God gave them over;
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

It makes you wonder why so many would seek to diminish scripture and its role in revealing the true and living God and sanctifying believers.
 

friend of

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You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

Jesus is the greater gift. ;)
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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"friend of

[You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

Jesus is the greater gift
. ;)]

Hello Friend,
Who is Jesus? which Jesus?
How do you know about Jesus?
How do you know what He came to do?
Can anyone else do what He did?
Without the bible, do you have the "biblical" Jesus?
Can we work for our salvation?
What happens to men who never heard of Jesus?
Do you see the issue clearer now?
 

marksman

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OT.Scriptures
Jesus taught them here in luke;24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus was not on earth when the NTC was formed.
 

marksman

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marksman

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And pray tell where did they get this Gospel from in the first place? So once again:

NO BIBLE = NO GOSPEL = NO GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE OFFERED
You gave the impression that a person had to have a written bible to be able to find salvation.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Jesus was not on earth when the NTC was formed.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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I didn't bother with the link to John McArthur as he does not believe what all the scripture says, only those bits that align with his reformed theology.

As for Monergism, I found that very interesting and I have bookmarked it read at leisure.

To grow ,let me make a suggestion for you that I try and follow.

Go over his link, line by line.
If you believe he is in error, offer scriptural correction.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The bible is without question the greatest gift given to mankind.

Haven’t read through all the responses but (imo) the greatest gift given to mankind is Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

A New birth. the greatest gift being born of the Spirit and no longer alienated from God.

Galatians 4:4-6 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. [6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Haven’t read through all the responses but (imo) the greatest gift given to mankind is Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

A New birth. the greatest gift being born of the Spirit and no longer alienated from God.

Galatians 4:4-6 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. [6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Hello VIJ,
You pointed out 3 great promises.
How do you know about them?
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hello VIJ,
You pointed out 3 great promises.
How do you know about them?

By His Spirit. I’m not disagreeing with you. Realize where I read it is in scripture. Only saying I’ve had bibles around my whole life. Sometimes in bookcases unseen and untouched for decades. But even when I did open it, the word meant nothing to me without His Spirit.
 

marksman

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To grow ,let me make a suggestion for you that I try and follow.

Go over his link, line by line.
If you believe he is in error, offer scriptural correction.

John McCarthur is not the subject of the thread so I will not waste time. I have some of his books so I already know what he thinks.
 

marksman

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25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
As I said, Jesus was not on earth when the HTC was formed.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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By His Spirit. I’m not disagreeing with you. Realize where I read it is in scripture. Only saying I’ve had bibles around my whole life. Sometimes in bookcases unseen and untouched for decades. But even when I did open it, the word meant nothing to me without His Spirit.
Well of course that is exactly right.
1 cor 2 makes it clear that we cannot.know anything about the true and living God unless the Spirit of God quickened the scriptures to us.
Then we have those things that are freely given to us of God.
Are you old enough to have seen the old glass coffee makers?
You put the coffee in the silver basket,but until the water was boiled and traveled up them stem and splashed and worked it's way through the grounds, there was no.coffee.
When the hot water was added,the coffee began to drip down until the water was transformed into coffee.

We are given the word of God written [scripture with all it contains]
In beginning God,creation,the fall of Adam into sin and death,the promise,world history, a holy nation,a promised messiah, the incarnation, the perfect life of The Servant of The Lord, The Cross,The blood,the resurrection, the ascension, the new birth, the Kingdom,the judgment, the Eternal State.
That's Good Coffee.