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Riverwalker
Active Member
John received the revelation
from The Great I Am, The Alpha and Omega.....Jesus
The heart that sows derision, has no peace
from The Great I Am, The Alpha and Omega.....Jesus
The heart that sows derision, has no peace
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
After He left Gods form to take the form of a man, and emptied Himself first, right?
All the angels are in God's Form.... they are spirits... this includes Jesus whom minsters to those inheriting salvation. "For even the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mark 10:45)
Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” (Hebrews 1:7)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You can’t answer a question with a question.
Obviously, your reply reveals an unwillingness to face verses that do not support your doctrine.
BreadOfLife
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I hate to to have to be the one to tell you this, but the entire idea of men NOT agreeing on Scripture is what gave birth to Protestantism.
Now, we have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines based on their disagreement of the Scriptures - yet they ALL claim the Holy Spirit led them to this confusion.
BreadOfLife
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There' no "senseless vitriol" here. I simply corrected your use of the term, "Many, if not MOST" scholars agree with your position on Rev. 22:12-13 - which is a LIE. You simply listed non-Trinitarian sources, which, by the way are the minority voice within fringe "Christianity".
As I stated - it is MY experience that MOST scholars believe that it is indeed Jesus who is speaking here.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
God works in mysterious ways. The difference between us is that I marvel at this diversity of the Holy Spirit while you have nothing but contempt for those led differently by the Spirit of God.
There is another thread on how doctrine guides your life. One even asked what is doctrine. A Christian Leadership Council member differentiated between dogma and doctrine. Dogma is what we are willing to die for, like following Jesus. Doctrine is what different denominations teach. Too many Christ followers, like you, confuse the 2.
From this, dogma is simply follow Jesus, which in practice means to love God with your all and love others as yourself. Somewhat simple.
I know you wanted to side step the idea that many doctrines are legitimately debatable, which invokes Romans 14:1 - and justifies all the tens of thousands of Protestant sects that you deeply scorn. Catholics willingness to fight to the death over every doctrinal point is what caused Protestantism. Unbelievers look at our infighting and understandably want none of that. Protestants continuing to splinter shows we all have our priorities wrong, subordinating the Great Commission to such (relatively) petty matters.
BreadOfLife
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What you have just espoused is a completely UNBIBLICAL view.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .
On the night before He was crucified, Jesus prayed fervently for the UNITY of His Body - that they remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
He did NOT pray for factions or the chaos of competing doctrines. God is NOT the author of confusion - He is the Author of Order.
Everything about God is ordered, including His plan for salvation. Everything that is disordered is NOT of God.
Different denominations (factions) are NOT pleasing to God.
You cannot follow Jesus while openly defying His will - which is the UNITY of His Body.
Finally - as to your Scripturally-bankrupt signature line:
"The trinity is not in the Bible. The entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day. Therefore, projecting trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text is futile."
You don't know your Bible very well - DO you?
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are GOD: (Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Nonsense! You are pretending human beings can only be united if they agree on doctrine. Imagine being united and allow for a difference of opinion? That is not the "Catholic" way. Unbiblical? I am offering Romans 14:1. Don't bait and switch to another verse. No comment on Romans 14:1 reveals what you are all about.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are confusing unity with submitting to RCC's usurpation of Christ's role in our lives.
I know the Bible very well. The trinity is not in the Bible - not the word, not the idea. The beginning point of unity would be for your to acknowledge this basic fact. To pretend it is in the Bible, you have to synthesize many verses, which is tacit admission there is not 1 verse that contains the doctrine of the trinity.
The doctrine of the trinity is so important, in 66 books, the doctrine is not stated once. That ought to make an impression on a curious mind.
If John received the revelation from The Great I Am, The Alpha and Omega.....Jesus. Then who was that God that Gave it to Jesus Christ?? "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him," (Revelation 1:1)
He said to them: “You, though, who do you say egō eimi ?” (Matthew 16:15)
Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)
In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.” (Matthew 16:17)
BreadOfLife
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Bait and switch??
I was simply showing you what a crock your post was.
As for Rom. 14:1 - this is talking about not quarrelling over NON-essentials.
Many Protestant factions disagree on matters that are as essential - and different as night and day . . .
Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on . . .
Like I said - you don't know your Bible very well - DO you?
BreadOfLife
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That's called a "Christophany" - or a manifestation of Him prior to the Incarnation.
You can say the SAME about the Rock that followed the Israelites9 in the desert (1 Cor. 10:4).
Is Jesus a piece of stone?
STUDY your Bible and learn . . .
Oh my goodness!!! It's Spiritual......
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
Can a Rock of stone follow them??? (Read Exodus 23:20-21) Who is the Chief Cornerstone? "being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:20)
BreadOfLife
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Ummmm, it was their source of WATER, so it was not solely a spiritual manifestation. Manna was also spiritual food - but it was actual, physical food.Oh my goodness!!! It's Spiritual......
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)
Can a Rock of stone follow them??? (Read Exodus 23:20-21) Who is the Chief Cornerstone? "being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:20)
The point here is that it is a Christiphany - just like the Burning Bush. Jesus is not an Angel - nor is He a Rock.
He is the Theanthropos - the God Man (John 1:1-14"
Riverwalker
Active Member
And if Jesus was not God...then why did not God strike him for saying
"8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”"
"8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”"
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
And Many Catholics as well.
My wife likes to say it’s about relationships, not religion (doctrine). That’s the essence of it: love God with your all and others as yourself. Everything else is non-essential.
You want others to get your religion (doctrine), making an obstacle to having a relationship with Christ as your master.
Friend, you have made an IDOL out of your doctrine. I’ll pray for you.
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