Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #2

[tigger 2]

@ Riverwalker post 139: Why do you think Jesus is saying this? What Bible are you using?

 

[BroRando]

Ummmm, it was their source of WATER, so it was not solely a spiritual manifestation. Manna was also spiritual food - but it was actual, physical food.

The point here is that it is a Christiphany - just like the Burning Bush. Jesus is not an Angel - nor is He a Rock.
He is the Theanthropos - the God Man (John 1:1-14"

Notice this verse "Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

He still thinks it's literal. The verse is talking about Salvation with those baptized into Moses some translations say unto Moses. They were Saved. Yet they died in the wilderness for refusing to listen to the angel at (Exodus 23:20-21)

Jesus even bought this event up, telling them their forefathers ate the bread but still died. So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have No Life in yourselves." (John 6:53)

How can we do that? Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit. (Acts 2:38)

 

[BroRando]

And if Jesus was not God...then why did not God strike him for saying

"8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”"

As the Word of God he was given authority. (Matthew 28:18) Notice the scripture at (Rev 1:8) you are using is corrupt several times over? Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #2

 

[theefaith]

Jesus was never in Rev 1:8 ever..... have you ever read Rev 1:1 ? Who gave Jesus Christ this Revelation?

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John, (Revelation 1:1)

please reply to these points

Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

JTB was the prophet of Jesus
So Jesus is the highest

Prepare the way of the Lord! Jn 1:23
He prepared the way for Jesus!
Jesus then is Lord!

Lk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Jesus visited us, Jesus must be our God

Lk 1:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jesus is God

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Angels! God’s Angels!

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Hosts of Angels!

Adoration is due to God alone!

Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Only God can work miracles

Matthew 8:27
But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!


Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!

Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).


Jesus Christ is Divine!

trinity Matt 28:19

 

[BreadOfLife]

And Many Catholics as well.

My wife likes to say it’s about relationships, not religion (doctrine). That’s the essence of it: love God with your all and others as yourself. Everything else is non-essential.
You want others to get your religion (doctrine), making an obstacle to having a relationship with Christ as your master.
Friend, you have made an IDOL out of your doctrine. I’ll pray for you.

And it's a good thing that it's not your wife or YOU who judges me - but the Lord (1 Cor. 4:4).

As for making an "idol" out of doctrine - I simply obey what the Lord teaches.
And your total inability to address the points I made in post #135 is noted . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Notice this verse "Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

He still thinks it's literal. The verse is talking about Salvation with those baptized into Moses some translations say unto Moses. They were Saved. Yet they died in the wilderness for refusing to listen to the angel at (Exodus 23:20-21)

Jesus even bought this event up, telling them their forefathers ate the bread but still died. So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have No Life in yourselves." (John 6:53)

How can we do that? Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Ummmm, ACTUAL WATER came from the Rock which which they drank and watered their livestock (Num. 20:8-11).
ACUTAL FOOD came down from Heaven in for=m of manna for them to eat.

As for the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6 - Jesus was comparing the OT TYPE that was manna to the NT FULFILLMENT that was His FLESH.
At the Last Supper - He showed the Apostles how to parttake in His flesh and blood - sacramentally.

Remember - YOU are the one who rejects this type and fulfillment - NOT me . . .

 

[Wrangler]

As for making an "idol" out of doctrine - I simply obey what the Lord teaches.

No, you do not simply obey wha the Lord teaches. If you did you, you would put Romans 14:1 into practice.

And your total inability to address the points I made in post #135 is noted . . .

I did address post #135 - just not the way you want.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 6 is not the Eucharist and has nothing to do with the last supper

John 6 is Jesus telling the people who came to him looking to be fed not to seek food which perishes but seek food which endures forever which he came to give them,

pin other words, not like the man ah which he gave Israel in which they had to eat, yet enter eating, the food died and more needed to be eaten, and even if they ate it every day they still would die.
The food he came to give one can eat and

never hunger or thirst vs 35, accomplished by coming to Christ and believing in him

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

will never be cast out. Vs 37. Accomplished by coming to Jesus

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out

has eternal life. Vs 40: accomplished by seeing and believing.

Will be raised on the last day. Vs 40. Accomplished by seeing and believing

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Have everlasting life. Vs 47 accomplished by having faith in Christ

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

will not die. Will live forever vs 50-51, this bread from heaven the food which endures forever is Jesus giving his life for the world. Accomplished by partaking of this food, ie, having faith in the son, what he has been preaching all along believe in him

50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

this food is spiritual food, the spirit gives life, the flesh (physical food) does nothing. Receiving this food is through faith in Christ, those who do not believe will never recieves it, this they will never see life we recieve it through the words Jesus speaks, and the words of the gospel, given by the spirit,

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 Butthere are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

the ones who did not believe left, because they did not believe Jesus, they wanted a handout The ones who stayed although they did not fully understand still believed as Peter said

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

it’s sad that Peter understood this food which endures forever are the words of jesus, yet Satan has decieved people this flesh a and blood bread from heaven is some weekly ceremony which people eat, and can still die, because that food does NOT endure forever it must like manna, continue to be eaten, amd no one is promised anything. Oh how they make Jesus such a liar

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you do not simply obey wha the Lord teaches. If you did you, you would put Romans 14:1 into practice.
I did address post #135 - just not the way you want.

Once again - Rom. 14:1 is about NON-essentials.

Back in post #135 - I gave you a laundry list of ESSENTIAL doctrines that Protestants disagree on - MANY of them having to do with salvation. It doesn't get ANY more essential than that.

And No - you didn't address them - you side-stepped them . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s odd

the OT people were saved by grace through faith we are told by the works of the law was no one saved

yet the NT people have all these works to do. Why is it it is harder for a NT person to be saved than the OT people?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD (God Jehovah Isa 44:6; Gen 17:1; Exo 6:3 ), which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Rev 1:8)

Translators not only removed God's Name but also removed GOD from latter revisions. Replacing it with LORD because that's what they did.... and that deception did not go far enough so they took LORD and made it into a little Lord ... (Rev 1:8)

Trinitarians tried to mimic the theology of the nameless trinity generic formula. Names were not to be added but rather a removal of them. The removal of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ was under attack. That attack continues today. (Rev 1:8) at one time did have a Name in it but can you guess whose it was?

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith Jehovah God which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Switched to:​

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD God which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Switched to:
​

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Switched to:
​

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Wow! I think you have been drinking too much new wine! Jesus is the Alpha and Omega in REv.1 there is no other alternative, biblically8, literally or grammatically.

but verses the Watchtower doesn't want their congregants to think on:

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The apostle JOhn declares Jesus equal to the Father!

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Jesus declared His physical resurrection from the dead in the same body He died in!

John 20:28
King James Version

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Greek is even more exposing of teh watchtower lie! for Thomas used the definite article both times. So He literally called Jesus "Thje Lord of me and the God of me!

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

The Father and Jesus both named Jehovah!!!!!!!!

 

[BroRando]

The Father and Jesus both named Jehovah!!!!!!!!

"Blessed Be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:3)
Peter claims, God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses (Acts 2:32)

“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalm 83:18)

 

[Wrangler]

Once again - Rom. 14:1 is about NON-essentials.

Right. You are wrongly categorizing what is essential and I think there is a special place in hell for those who put obstacles to one going to Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right. You are wrongly categorizing what is essential and I think there is a special place in hell for those who put obstacles to one going to Christ.

REALLY??
Soooooo, matters of salvation, what happens to our soul after death and the nature of God are NOT essential matter of the faith?

You have some pretty bizarre ideas about what Christian "essentials" are.
The "special place" in Hell is reserved for those wo pervert the Word of God like this . . .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Blessed Be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:3)
Peter claims, God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses (Acts 2:32)

“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” (Psalm 83:18)

Yes The Father is Jesus God and Father- He even said so. but that does not take away from Jesus absolute Deity as Scripture declares!

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Two people named Jehovah are speaking here!

 

[tigger 2]

Ronald Nolette wrote in post #151 above:
"Wow! I think you have been drinking too much new wine! Jesus is the Alpha and Omega in REv.1 there is no other alternative, biblically8, literally or grammatically." [T2 added bolding]
..................................
Ronald is speaking of Rev. 1:8 as found in the KJV and those which also use the Received Text. However, if you look at most trinitarian Bibles of the last century or more, you will see that they admit that the word for God is present in the text and the word "almighty" always refers to God.

Rev. 1:8 - "Lord God" - ASV, AMP, Beck, BBE, CBW, CEB, CEV, CJB, CSB, Darby, DLNT, DRA, EHV, ERV, ESV, EXB, GW, GNT, HCSB, ICB, ISB, JB, LEB, Mounce, NAB, NASB, NCV, NEB, NET, NIRV, NIV, NJB, NLT, NLV, NOG, NRSV, NTE, Phillips, REB, RSV, TLB, TLV, TPT, Voice, WEB, WE, WNT (1755), WYC, Wycliffe Bible (1395).

God is speaking in Rev. 1:8 and uses his exclusive titles of "Alpha and Omega" and "Almighty."

I guess all these trinitarian translators listed above must have not received the message: "there is no other alternative, biblically8, literally or grammatically."

 

[BroRando]

"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,"

Prove the trinity is a fraud.... no three persons here... Again Jesus Christ GIVEN something.

The Greek name of the Bible book of Revelation, A·po·kaʹly·psis (apocalypse), means “Uncovering” or “Disclosure.” But not for unbelievers, they become even more Unbelieving.... the only three parts I see is in (Rev 16:13)

"And I saw three unclean inspired persons that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet." (Rev 16:13)

This is where it calls for Wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number, and its number is 666. (Revelation 13:18)

To deny Wisdom is to accept the wild beast number 666. "Christ is the Wisdom of God" (1 Corinthians 1:24) Isn't that the Beasts' message?? God is a man??? Awake O Sleeper, Awake!

 

[tigger 2]

Yes The Father is Jesus God and Father- He even said so. but that does not take away from Jesus absolute Deity as Scripture declares!

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Two people named Jehovah are speaking here!

There is only one person known as Jehovah (Ps. 83:18, KJV). That means that the scripture in question is saying that Jehovah is the King of Israel and the redeemer of Israel.

This is what the Lord, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, says: I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but Me.- HCSB.

 

[Wrangler]

REALLY??
Soooooo, matters of salvation, what happens to our soul after death and the nature of God are NOT essential matter of the faith?

Exactly! Following Jesus is the only essential matter. Stop putting obstacles to people following the master and Savior.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Exactly! Following Jesus is the only essential matter. Stop putting obstacles to people following the master and Savior.

This is a really perverted view of Scripture.
You actually believe that you can "follow Jesus" and reject His plan for salvation and the very nature of God??

Explain to me how you do these tings while "following" Him.
Matt. 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to OVSERVE ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU.