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Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Wrangler, Jun 6, 2021.

  1. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Did God change the commandments in matt 5
     
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Again, Scripture says he was. Not sure why other translations use a synonym in v 16 but there it is. (And it is not the JW translation).

    Bethsabee bowed herself, and worshipped the king.
    1 Kings 1:16 (DRA, JUB, WYC)
     
  3. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    obedience probably
     
  4. BroRando

    BroRando Active Member

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    The proper word is obeisance.
    • A gesture or movement of the body, such as a curtsy, that expresses deference or homage.
    • An attitude of deference or homage.
    • Authority; subjection; power or right to demand obedience.

    1 Kings 1:16 And Bath-sheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king. And the king said, What wouldest thou?

    So God's angels were not told to worship Jesus but rather to become obedient to him and LISTEN to him for Jesus was GIVEN Authority. But when God again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”
     
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  5. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    thesecare Gods angels?
     
  6. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying Michael is your God?
     
  7. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    And CERTAINLY not Michael!
     
  8. Gregory

    Gregory Active Member

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    This is certainly not a context of worship. It is a context of obeisance, bowing before the king to give him honor and respect. But not worshipping. Whoever translated it as worship is mistaken. The KJV says she bowed and did obeisance to the king, which is correct. David would not have let anyone worship him, knowing God as well as he did.
     
  9. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Worship is the word. It may not be now used as it meant then but there it is. David was worshipped. This is the word of God.

    I agree that David (and Jesus) being worshipped does not mean they are God.
     
  10. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    We agree on something finally.
     
  11. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Whoever translated the word to NOT be worship was mistaken.
     
  12. Emily Nghiem

    Emily Nghiem Active Member

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    No @kcnalp
    I was explaining the way I can make any sense of Jehovah's Witnesses calling Michael and Jesus "interchangeable" is they appear to be using Michael as a symbol of God's Message of Mercy, which I normally call the Holy Spirt.

    Since Jesus and the Holy Spirit come together, then this might be the Christian parallel of the JW symbolism of Michael being connected with Jesus.

    That is the most I can stretch to translate what JW mean by this symbolism.

    Otherwise it makes no sense to me how Jesus can be Michael.
     
  13. teamventure

    teamventure Well-Known Member

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    Wrangler, if you deny God has come in the flesh you are antichrist and are not saved.
     
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  14. TheHC

    TheHC New Member

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    What Scripture are you quoting? I read 2 John 1:7, which says “deny Jesus Christ as come in the flesh.”

    It couldn’t say “God”, because the Apostle John said “no one has seen God at any time.” - John 1:18.

    Every translation I’ve ever read — over 100 — says the same thing, or something similar... either “no one” or no man”, “ever” or “at any time.”

    Such definitive words, spoken by a simple yet straightforward man!
     
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  15. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Such unbiblical threats are a common resort for trinitarians.
     
  16. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Great point. Never in the writings of the Apostles do they claim Jesus was God incarnate. Rather, EVERY epistle identifies God as the Father alone. A most inconvenient fact for trinitarians.

    Rather than accept that their doctrine is a 4th century man-made construct, they resort to tortured interpretations of unitarian text.

    The last few epistles, like 2 John, were addressing the Heresy that Jesus was a spirit and not a flesh and blood man.

    No where in the Bible does it say what teamventure threatened me with; that if you do not violate the 1C and the Sh’ma, you cannot be saved.

    That the trinitarian idolatry is delusional is seen in their preference that they’d rather people abandon following Christ and burn in the Lake of Fire than reject their 3-is-1 doctrine. The fruit of the Spirit does not flow from trinitarian doctrine. The Fruit of the Spirit cannot flow from doctrine that is not in the Bible. They cannot accept their doctrine is not in the Bible - not an explicit teaching.

    Jesus said ‘follow me.’ He did not say if you don’t believe I am God incarnate, you are against me and cannot be saved.
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    Jesus worshiped and has all authority = God!

    Matt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
     
  18. Emily Nghiem

    Emily Nghiem Active Member

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    Dear @Wrangler
    In your system, this means Jesus is Divine
    As in God's divine Authority of LAW or JUSTICE sent to man through Jesus to reconcile man with God, man's justice with God's Justice.

    If you and @teamventure can Forgive these different ways of talking about the ONE God and the ONE Jesus,then we have no conflict.

    If you two cannot forgive each other in Christ Jesus and put God's ONE truth before your own ways of expressing this same ONE truth, that is what is causing this to go back and forth in circles.

    Our faith remains ONE as there is only ONE mediator between us and the ONE God

    But God speaks to us in different ways that may or may not match how the same ONE God speaks to our neighbors through Christ who is ONE. One message one Messiah but different messengers to share this ONE message with different audiences.

    Please let us forgive and receive one another as children of the ONE Father who receive His Truth Justice Love and Grace through Christ Jesus who makes us ONE.
     
  19. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Emily, I once thought divine meant heavenly, as in, this cake is divine. Under this concept, angels are divine. However, I've since learned that divine is not a synonym with heavenly but God, which I take as the one and only Father. So, given that "divine" exclusively means the LORD God Adonai, and not merely heavenly beings, in my system Jesus is NOT divine.

    Blessed are the peacemakers Emily.

    There is nothing for me to forgive teamventure about. Having said that, we do disagree about:
    1. The unitarian nature of God
    2. Being saved NOT being a function of believing in the trinity, in general, and the divinity of Jesus, in particular.
     
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  20. teamventure

    teamventure Well-Known Member

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    It's not a threat. It's where people who deny Christ sit with God.
     
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