Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

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theefaith

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Dualism. But nowhere to be found in the provided texts.


Middle Ages:
albigensians: duelist sin of Manichaeism
god of good (spiritual or light) and a god of evil. (matter or darkness)

the Freemasons are dualists

and you’re an Arian

Arianism: Jesus was not divine, condemned at the first apostolic council of Nicea with the trinity defined!
 
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APAK

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Just ranting against the idea that Jesus was true God and true man doesn't make it untrue. It's just your opinion.

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross." (Phil 2:5-8)
Yes, we are certainly to have the mind of Christ as we do because he lives in us as the Father lives in his Son, the Christ for us.

And yes, Christ was in the form or mosaic outward appearance as his God, the Father, in mannerisms, voice, inflexions and actions and maybe in his gestures as a human being. Notice that if he was God, the Father he would not have to be in the form of God at all......

And our Christ, who was not God, the Father, never thought himself to be equal with his God, his Father. He instead as only a human being, yielded his own human spirit and will over to his God, the Father as a humble servant or slave, born as a man, although a special created (likeness of) man.
 

theefaith

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Yes, we are certainly to have the mind of Christ as we do because he lives in us as the Father lives in his Son, the Christ for us.

And yes, Christ was in the form or mosaic outward appearance as his God, the Father, in mannerisms, voice, inflexions and actions and maybe in his gestures as a human being. Notice that if he was God, the Father he would not have to be in the form of God at all......

And our Christ, who was not God, the Father, never thought himself to be equal with his God, his Father. He instead as only a human being, yielded his own human spirit and will over to his God, the Father as a humble servant or slave, born as a man, although a special created (likeness of) man.


John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 

APAK

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John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Really, you want to bring the NT Greek to English words 'I am' up again? You do know it does not mean YHWH for several obvious reasons? You have seen my explanation before, and others like from Tiger2. You cannot provide any support or cover for your claim. It's a shame as I know you mean well in your own mind and do want to support your religion.
 

Wrangler

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yes Jesus Died
His human nature died
His divinity did not die

Dualism. Scripture says over and over and over again he was a man. This is his one nature. And what makes the resurrection significant. It is not Jesus' divinity but the divinity of God whose Spirit was in him and us.
 

atpollard

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Really, you want to bring the NT Greek to English words 'I am' up again? You do know it does not mean YHWH for several obvious reasons? You have seen my explanation before, and others like from Tiger2. You cannot provide any support or cover for your claim. It's a shame as I know you mean well in your own mind and do want to support your religion.
The native speakers listening to him that immediately took up stones to kill him for blasphemy disagree with you.
 

APAK

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The native speakers listening to him that immediately took up stones to kill him for blasphemy disagree with you.
So you really think that the Pharisees believed this man, as they kept calling him, suddenly saw and believed YHWH was in their presence? Are you kidding me.

And this is your proof, an illogical quick shallow thought of deduction and opinion, and even if you took the time to review the entire conversation and context? I would at least have looked at the latter before I spoke out of tune.
 

atpollard

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So you really think that the Pharisees believed this man, as they kept calling him, suddenly saw and believed YHWH was in their presence? Are you kidding me.
The people that attempted to stone Jesus for blasphemy clearly did not believe that he was God, but they equally clearly believed that Jesus had just claimed to be God (otherwise they would not be stoning him for blasphemy).

Come on, who is kidding who? This really isn’t that hard to see from the context. You are working harder at deliberately misunderstanding the obvious and ascribing strawman claims to my post.
 
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APAK

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The people that attempted to stone Jesus for blasphemy clearly did not believe that he was God, but they equally clearly believed that Jesus had just claimed to be God (otherwise they would not be stoning him for blasphemy).

Come on, who is kidding who? This really isn’t that hard to see from the context. You are working harder at deliberately misunderstanding the obvious and ascribing strawman claims to my post.
So we are now going in circles...wee....been here many times....

First you say "The native speakers listening to him that immediately took up stones to kill him for blasphemy disagree with you." and I suspect you said this because of the idiom 'I am' used by Christ.

Because now you say the Pharisees did not believe he was YHWH at all. I'm at least glad for that...now you say again, that Jesus said he was YHWH.

Stop beating around the bush and state why you think 'I am' means Jesus is calling himself YHWH? Can you provide this proof with any understanding for persuasion?

Hint: Anyone calling themselves 'I am' from the Greek, as there were many, as it is a common idiom, are not calling themselves YHWH.
You are forcing this idiom and applying it to your prefixed narrative and theory, that is like forcing a square into a circle, It won't fit no matter how hard you try.

So produce the proof and let's end it. I'll give you a few days if you want.

So who is kidding who?
 

Mungo

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Lap 200.



No response to the Scripture that says Jesus is the 1st born of all creation. Predictable.
You didn't give any scripture.
Claiming scripture says something without giving the quote and reference (or even just the reference if you are lazy) isn't giving scripture.
 

APAK

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You didn't give any scripture.
Claiming scripture says something without giving the quote and reference (or even just the reference if you are lazy) isn't giving scripture.
That's the point and in the way I responded here Mungo. I'm actually tired of providing scripture and a decent commentary on the subject. I want the accuser or claimer here to provide it this time. I think that's fair.
 

APAK

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Just ranting against the idea that Jesus was true God and true man doesn't make it untrue. It's just your opinion.

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross." (Phil 2:5-8)
Show you claim in scripture that Jesus is YHWH, prove it, I'm waiting. You should be proud to show it I would think? Remember, I'm the one NOT claiming it as my response to and others who laid this claim down as NO PROOF, with the almighty gotcha "I AM', so fire away with all you have...I dare you
 

APAK

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You didn't give any scripture.
Claiming scripture says something without giving the quote and reference (or even just the reference if you are lazy) isn't giving scripture.
Yes, I realize that I answered for @Wrangler accidentally. No matter, you do not do scripture yourself so what's the difference. So continue and please answer what you think 'I AM' means in the NT.
 
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theefaith

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Show you claim in scripture that Jesus is YHWH, prove it, I'm waiting. You should be proud to show it I would think? Remember, I'm the one NOT claiming it as my response to and others who laid this claim down as NO PROOF, with the almighty gotcha "I AM', so fire away with all you have...I dare you

matt 24:31 His angels!!!!!
 

APAK

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@Mungo @atpollard @theefaith I will not do this again for a while. I just want you to know we have to dig into scripture and some various context that ALL must align together before we make just a drastic claim, in this case, that Jesus is God, and he is not....

Another version and my latest commentary then..

You argue that this verse of John 8:58b states that Jesus said he was the 'I am' as YHWH said in Exodus, so he must be God. Let me explain all this as you cannot, or are unable it seems.

Saying 'I am' does not make a person God Almighty.

There was a man born blind and Jesus healed him. This man was not claiming to be God, as he said 'I am the man,' and the Greek reads exactly like Jesus’ statement, i.e., 'I am.'

The fact that the exact same phrase is translated two different ways, one as 'I am' and the other as 'I am the man,' is one reason it is so hard for the average Christian to get the truth from just reading the Bible as it has been translated into English.

Most Bible translators are Trinitarian as you are, and your bias is obvious here, being a common one.

Paul also used the same phrase of himself when he said that he wished all men were as 'I am' (Acts 26:29). Thus, we conclude that saying 'I am' did not make Paul, the man born blind or Christ into God.

Ego eimi, in English 'I am' does not associate Jesus with God at all.

It is used for emphasis and to attract attention in the strongest possible way. For example it is used like, I am the one or the only one that this applies to or you must see or listen to me that shows you God or his ways. The person stating this, in this case would be Jesus, or even Paul is not the subject of the conversation. The messenger is the 'I am' who conveys the message of the subject about God in this case.

The phrase 'I am' occurs many other times in the New Testament, and is often translated as 'I am he' or some equivalent ('I am he in Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6 and 8. 'It is I' in Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. 'I am the one I claim to be' in John 8:24 and 28.).

It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as 'I am' only in John 8:58b. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated 'I am he' or 'I am the one,' like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was), spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

At the Last Supper, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said, literally, 'Not I am, Lord' (Matt. 26:22 and 25). No one would say that the disciples were trying to deny that they were God because they were using the phrase 'Not I am.' The point is this: 'I am' was a common way of designating oneself, and it did not mean you were claiming to be God.

The argument is made that because Jesus was 'before' Abraham, Jesus must have been God. There is no question that Jesus figuratively 'existed' in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he 'existed' in the mind of God as God’s plan for the redemption of man.

A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of 'existing' in God’s foreknowledge. Verse 56 is accurately translated in the King James Version, which says: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.”

This verse says that Abraham 'saw' the Day of Christ, which is normally considered by theologians to be the day when Christ conquers the earth and sets up his kingdom. That would fit with what the book of Hebrews says about Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God” (Heb. 11:10).

Abraham looked for a city that is still future, yet the Bible says Abraham 'saw' it. In what sense could Abraham have seen something that was future? Abraham 'saw' the Day of Christ because God told him it was coming, and Abraham 'saw' it by faith.

Although Abraham saw the Day of Christ by faith, that day existed in the mind of God long before Abraham. Thus, in the context of God’s plan existing from the beginning, Christ certainly was 'before' Abraham. Christ was the plan of God for man’s redemption long before Abraham lived. We are not the only ones who believe that Jesus’ statement does not make him God:

As one author stated: To say that Jesus is 'before' him is not to lift him out of the ranks of humanity but to assert his unconditional precedence. To take such statements at the level of 'flesh' so as to infer, as 'the Jews' do that, at less than fifty, Jesus is claiming to have lived on this earth before Abraham (8:52 and 57), is to be as crass as Nicodemus who understands rebirth as an old man entering his mother’s womb a second time (3:4). J. A. T. Robinson, The Priority of John (Meyer Stone Pub., Oak Park, IL, 1985), p. 384.

In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus’ 'I am' statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God’s 'I am' statement in Exodus 3:14. However, the two statements are very different. While the Greek phrase in John does mean 'I am,' the Hebrew phrase in Exodus actually means 'to be' or 'to become.' In other words God is saying, 'I will be what I will be.' Thus the 'I am' in Exodus is actually a mistranslation of the Hebrew text, so the fact that Jesus said 'I am' did not make him God.

The Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. At Jesus’ trial, the High Priest asked, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God" (Matt. 26:63). First of all, we should notice that no one at the trial asked Jesus if he were God.

However, if they thought he had been claiming to be God, that would have certainly been a question they would have asked. The High Priest asked Jesus in very clear terms if he was the Christ because that is what the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be.

Second, when the Jews heard Jesus’ clear answer ('Yes, it is as you say'), they accused him of blasphemy and said, 'He is worthy of death' (Matt. 26:66). They felt he was worthy of death in the record in John 8, but in that record they picked up stones to kill him, while after hearing his 'blasphemy' at the trial, they took him to Pilate and got the Romans to execute Jesus.

Bless you all,

PS this commentary, its structure and words were taken from other Brethren of my faith in this subject..off the shelf...I have several other previous commentaries that are completely original that adds more and includes these same ideas and results presented here...
 
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