Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

[Wrangler]

Has nothing to do with your personal language usage, words have a multitude of senses. You could just open a dictionary quote which pre-defined sense you mean.

I could but I won’t.

"Being" by itself has at least 5 pre-defined uses.

Oh, the one synonymous with person. Personhood. Beinghood. Same difference.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Oh, the one synonymous with person. Personhood. Beinghood. Same difference.

Wonderful! It just so happens that is one of the many uses which is perfectly consonant with Trinitarian teaching. So amen: God the Father and the Lord Jesus are different persons. At this rate one day we'll say the Nicene Creed together.

 

[Wrangler]

I believe He did teach it, and I do hold to the doctrine to proof.

Thee is no verse in the Bible anything like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[Wrangler]

Facts checked, Snopes would approve.

While being proven wrong. Trinitarian. Unitarian. Not the same.

 

[Wrangler]

So amen: God the Father and the Lord Jesus are different persons.

And God the Father and the Lord Jesus are different Beings.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Thee is no verse in the Bible anything like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Non-Trinitarians can be saved, and in fact I have witnessed the salvation of one most likely who was holy like the Prophets of old and whose life was so grace-filled it assisted in the salvation of many others, so I'd disagree with that.

Moreover I do think that the Trinity is taught in Scripture, and a verse like that is not necessary. One can affirm the Trinity simply without even the word or the Creeds.

 

[Abaxvahl]

And God the Father and the Lord Jesus are different Beings.

You said person and being are synonyms, are you walking that back now? For if by beings you mean persons then absolutely, God the Father and the Lord Jesus are different beings. You seem to believe that they are not synonyms though.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus and God absolutely do not have the same nature. Not sure where trinitarians get this but repeating something does not make it true.

Let’s examine a few facts.

1. Jesus died. God did not.
2. God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise God from the dead.
3. Jesus is flesh. God is Spirit.
4. God choose, sent Jesus and told Jesus what to say. Jesus did not choose God, send God or tell God what to say
5. Jesus submitted to the will of God. God did not submit to the will of Jesus.

No response?

What would totally repudiate the trinity?

No answer?

 

[Wrangler]

Moreover I do think that the Trinity is taught in Scripture, and a verse like that is not necessary.

Bless your heart. LOL. Not necessary to be in Scripture? Wow!

Make a blessed day

 

[Abaxvahl]

Bless your heart. LOL. Not necessary to be in Scripture? Wow!

Make a blessed day

A verse like you made red and bold, not the doctrine. The doctrine is necessary to be there, those exact words are not.

 

[Abaxvahl]

No response?



No answer?

I responded to all of that far above. In this thread posts #971 and #973 of mine respond to these.

 

[robert derrick]

Wrong. The 1C prohibits trinitarianism. The habitual violating the 1C is obviously inconsistent with the will of God, who raised the man Jesus from the dead to prove his righteous plan to us as Acts tells us.

Wrong. The 1C prohibits trinitarianism.

Wrong. The LORD our God named Himself Jehovah, but now He is the Lord our God Jesus Christ.

The God of Israel in the flesh was called Jesus, and remains His name today, which name is above ever name, including that of Jehovah.

Neither the name Jehovah, nor the LORD, is found in Scripture after His birth.

Now, if you want to use that name for the Father, though Scripture never says so specifically, then so be it.

However, Jehovah and Jesus are the names of the same Lord God, who is everlasting King of kings and Lord of lords. (Jerem 10:10) (Rev 1&:14)

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

Jesus is the blessed King of glory that comes in the name of the Lord. (Luke 19:38)

And the Spirit speaks expressly, He is not a force.

By not worshipping Jesus as the risen God of Israel is to violate the 1C, in order to idolize another name.

 

[robert derrick]

The Israelites of old and the Jews of today are two different groups. I do not care about what they (the Jews of today) think, it's a false bloodless religion. I am of the same religion as Abraham, Israel is one.

You have not defined being, and I never said 3 is 1. I am aware of your signature. If you mean Jack and Jill are two beings as I mean it then that does not contradict the Trinity or repudiate it at all. You equated it to person, so I followed you. We both agree that the Father and the Son are two different persons then. They are not the same but they have the same nature just as Jack and Jill do. I fail to see the problem or the repudiation.

The entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

The entire Bible is written by God through His prophets and apostles, and they were not monotheist Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah, which was to make Himself equal with God.

Those today following after those monotheist Jews do the same.

The Israelites of old and the Jews of today are two different groups.

True. The former were the physical seed of promise under the first covenant. The latter are all flesh without any promise from God.

I do not care about what they (the Jews of today) think, it's a false bloodless religion.

Called the Jews religion, full of monotheists that still reject Jesus as the Christ and so being equal with God.

I am of the same religion as Abraham, Israel is one.

True: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed...Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[Wrangler]

A verse like you made red and bold, not the doctrine. The doctrine is necessary to be there, those exact words are not.

That’s why I said something ‘like.’

The trinity is not in the Bible - not the words, not the doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

As for your five facts, here are five facts:

In other words, no reply to the facts presented on how Jesus and God have different natures, only divert attention to anything else. Gotcha!

 

[Abaxvahl]

In other words, no reply to the facts presented on how Jesus and God have different natures, only divert attention to anything else. Gotcha!

Actually I rephrased what you said, agreed with you, and refuted one thing you said. I agree with you on all points except one in the second sentence I believe. Clearly you didn't read it.

In all this time you have simply stated things Trinitarians believe as if it refutes them. None of this has been any more of a refutation than repeating to a Christian "Jesus was raised from the dead" over and over again, as if that refutes the doctrine of the Resurrection. It has led me to believe that you do not know what historic Trinitarians believe or believed and simply have taken an amalgamation of modern presentations as what the doctrine of the Trinity is when it is in fact not.

 

[Wrangler]

The entire Bible is written by God through His prophets and apostles, and they were not monotheist Jews

Yes, the entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.

 

[Brakelite]

What would totally repudiate the trinity?

Two things. A literal ontological Father/Son relationship in the Godhead. And the complete death and separation of Christ from His Father at Calvary. The Trinity allows for neither of the above. The Trinity first speaks of Co equal Co eternal beinfs, this denying the begotten concept. Second, the Trinity denies they possibility of any of the members thereof being separated from one another. According to the doctrine, each member of the Trinity is indivisible and united in such a way that cannot be broken.

 

[face2face]

Back to the Apostle's baptismal Creed, "I believe in one God the Father almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and in His Son..."

To the Nicene Creed recited every Sunday: "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible..."

Back to Scripture: "for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

Facts checked, Snopes would approve.

But wait...there's more!...Tertullian V. Praxeas - Tertullian won and now Abaxvahl is his disciple. And even Tertullian acknowledged that many had issue with his formulated doctrine...I guess not much has changed Sad part...who pays the price for this confusion? Well, the Scripture, God's Word is shelved and so so many deceived.

 

[marks]

According to the doctrine, each member of the Trinity is indivisible and united in such a way that cannot be broken.

You're not really going to be successful in using Trinitarian doctrine to break Trinitarian doctrine. Jesus was begotten a Son by incarnating into flesh. Incarnating into flesh permitted Jesus the opportunity to die a man's death. Dying a man's death doesn't mean He becomes separated from the Father.

Jesus attests to His eternal nature,

John 3:12-13 KJV
12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Much love!