Secure Eternal Salvation 2

[atpollard]

[Galatians 6:11-16 NASB]

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! All who want to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they want to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And all who will follow this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
​

Paul isn't just talking about foreskins; he is talking about GRACE.

 

[robert derrick]

[Galatians 6:11-16 NASB]

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! All who want to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they want to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And all who will follow this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
​

Paul isn't just talking about foreskins; he is talking about GRACE.

For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they want to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Keeping a law that is no law, is not obeying God by grace through faith, but is obeying man that proselytizes to a false faith of their own making.

Them trusting in their own law of righteousness, apart from the law of Christ, are fallen from grace to obey God in all things.

And them trusting in their own faith alone, apart from doing the righteousness of God, have no need of His grace at all.

Faith only does nothing and saves no man: Only by obeying the faith in the heart, are we circumcised with the circumcision of Christ to cut off the foreskin of the old man of lust from our hearts.

Eternal secure salvation with circumcision of the Spirit in the heart, is only by obeying the faith in the heart to purify the heart from lust of the world.

There is no new creature in Christ by faith only, alongside the old man by works of the flesh.

There is either one or the other, and until there is obedience in the heart by faith, then the hearers only are still of the other old man, as they testify themselves to their own shame:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Those of faith only for salvation before and apart from obeying and loving God with all the heart, remain in bondage to sin and unequally yoked with the old man of lust.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[robert derrick]

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

The lie of unconditional salvation by faith only, before and apart from obeying Him, is that it is before and apart from obeying Him, which means it is forever apart from obeying Him.

It is an unconditional salvation of man that is always apart from obeying or disobeying Him: they have removed obedience to God from believing and loving God.

But Jesus is the Author of eternal salvation for them that obey Him: He authors it and begins it with obeying Him.

The beginning of eternal salvation is only for them that begin to obey Him with the heart.

Jesus Christ does not Author any salvation before and apart from obeying Him in the heart.

 

[Titus]

For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they want to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Keeping a law that is no law, is not obeying God by grace through faith, but is obeying man that proselytizes to a false faith of their own making.

Them trusting in their own law of righteousness, apart from the law of Christ, are fallen from grace to obey God in all things.

And them trusting in their own faith alone, apart from doing the righteousness of God, have no need of His grace at all.

Faith only does nothing and saves no man: Only by obeying the faith in the heart, are we circumcised with the circumcision of Christ to cut off the foreskin of the old man of lust from our hearts.

Eternal secure salvation with circumcision of the Spirit in the heart, is only by obeying the faith in the heart to purify the heart from lust of the world.

There is no new creature in Christ by faith only, alongside the old man by works of the flesh.

There is either one or the other, and until there is obedience in the heart by faith, then the hearers only are still of the other old man, as they testify themselves to their own shame:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Those of faith only for salvation before and apart from obeying and loving God with all the heart, remain in bondage to sin and unequally yoked with the old man of lust.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Key word in scripture for eternal salvation is HOPE.

Let's say I have already obtained a 47 Club Coup.

Now, I already own a 47 Club Coup.
I have already obtained this car.

Do I hope for a car I already own? No,
Hope is something not yet obtained.
Hope comes true in the future. Hope is not yet obtained.

Now let's look at how God teaches/ phrases Eternal salvation for christians.

1Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Titus 1:2
In Hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

OSAS is unbiblical because a christians eternal salvation is Hoped for.
It is an ongoing effort to live for Christ.
If we die faithful we will be given eternal life.
Revelation 2:10 ....be faithful until death....

 

[atpollard]

The lie of unconditional salvation by faith only, before and apart from obeying Him

… is a strawman created by those that want to add WORKS OF MAN to God’s gift of grace as a prerequisite for Justification. No Reformer ever claimed such nonsense. We believe Ephesians 2:8-9 followed by Ephesians 2:10.

 

[atpollard]

Key word in scripture for eternal salvation is HOPE.

Let's say I have already obtained a 47 Club Coup.

Now, I already own a 47 Club Coup.
I have already obtained this car.

Do I hope for a car I already own? No,
Hope is something not yet obtained.
Hope comes true in the future. Hope is not yet obtained.

Now let's look at how God teaches/ phrases Eternal salvation for christians.

1Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Titus 1:2
In Hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

OSAS is unbiblical because a christians eternal salvation is Hoped for.
It is an ongoing effort to live for Christ.
If we die faithful we will be given eternal life.
Revelation 2:10 ....be faithful until death....

[John 10:25-30 NIV]

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."​

Was Jesus’ promise in John 10 just empty words?
Did Jesus give ETERNAL LIFE or just HOPE of possible eternal life?
Will they NEVER PERISH or MIGHT they perish?
Are we secure in God’s hands, or does it all depend on OUR STRENGTH to hold on?
So was John 10 TRUE or a LIE? A reason for CONFIDENCE or TRICKERY?

 

[robert derrick]

… is a strawman created by those that want to add WORKS OF MAN to God’s gift of grace as a prerequisite for Justification. No Reformer ever claimed such nonsense. We believe Ephesians 2:8-9 followed by Ephesians 2:10.

The strawman argument is calling doing God's righteousness by faith, the 'works of man'.

Faith-only hearers replace SALVATION OF MAN for the eternal salvation of jesus Christ.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Hearers only are only them that 'agree' with the gospel when they heart it, but they do not obey it with the heart to be justified of God.

Which is why they will never ever agree with Scripture as it is written: their hearing is with ears only, and their agreeing is with imagination only.

Obeying the faith to do His righteousness is the only way to be justified with God.

Them that reject the doctrine of justification by works written plainly in Scripture, also happen to be the same perpetual sinners on earth, who speak of the faith of the gospel, but never obey the truth of the gospel to purify their hearts from lust of the world, and so cleanse the outside of the platter from sins of the flesh.

They proudly say it themselves all the time: they are still sinners of the world, and their hearts are not pure.

No unpurified heart of lust and filthy hands of the flesh will ever ascend unto the hill of the Lord, except of course in their own vain imagination of faith-only unconditional salvation of man, who think they can hear and agree their way to heaven only.

Agreeing only is neither confession nor believing and obeying with the heart.

 

[atpollard]

Faith-only hearers replace SALVATION OF MAN for the eternal salvation of jesus Christ.

Yes, we are saved by GOD and not by MAN.
You can keep insisting that Ephesians 2:10 comes before Ephesians 2:8-9 if you want, but I will continue to believe that God saved so that we can walk in good works, not God saves us as a reward because of our good works.

Sola Fide. (By Faith Alone)
Sola Gratia. (Through Grace Alone)
Sola Christo. (In Christ Alone)
Soli Deo Gloria. (To the Glory of God Alone).

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, we are saved by GOD and not by MAN.
You can keep insisting that Ephesians 2:10 comes before Ephesians 2:8-9 if you want, but I will continue to believe that God saved so that we can walk in good works, not God saves us as a reward because of our good works.

Sola Fide. (By Faith Alone)
Sola Gratia. (Through Grace Alone)
Sola Christo. (In Christ Alone)
Soli Deo Gloria. (To the Glory of God Alone).

But I will continue to believe that God saved so that we can walk in good works, not God saves us as a reward because of our good works.

What you continue to do is to refuse to acknowledge purifying our hearts before walking in good works.

You also refuse to acknowledge being saved by obeying the faith in the heart, rather than being rewarded for good works of the body.

So long as you continue to try and obey the second great commandment to love one another, without first obeying the first great commandment to love God with a whole purified heart, you are being saved by man's doctrine of faith only, not by God's grace to be pure even as He is pure.

There is no salvation before and apart from calling upon the Lord from a pure heart:

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

No man is saved by calling upon the name of the Lord with a heart of lust.

You need to begin doing the first works of the first love of God in the heart, before going on still thinking to please God by your own good works and filthy righteousness from an unpurified heart with unclean hands.

 

[PinSeeker]

ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS LOVE JESUS . ONLY THOSE WHO OBEY JESUS ARE TRULY HIS.

Do you think you do this perfectly, Amigo? Or anywhere close to perfectly?

How's that for simple truth.

Well that's the problem. It's too simple.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think you do this perfectly, Amigo? Or anywhere close to perfectly?


Well that's the problem. It's too simple.

Grace and peace to you.

Many have come with that first line . Do you think you do this perfectly .
Guess what , It has never once stopped me from warning against sin nor will it do so .
Let me leave you with pauls words or the Word of JESUS , Go and sin no more lest something worse come upon you .
Let all who name the name of Christ depart from inquity .
KEEP IT grave or go home my friend . We must be very serious against leaven in the church .
Now warn or go home my friend , or at least pray for folks like me to continue doing what the churches have in large
stopped doing . I see leaven i warn against leaven . Too bad the churches quit doing so
and look what happend , they leavend up worse and worse till now they even accept some sins .
Let us return to the bible and learn REAL GOOD and WELL what BOTH JESUS and the apostels said .
Learn their approach , and learn it well . For many men have long crept in and no longer sound as those true ones did .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think you do this perfectly, Amigo? Or anywhere close to perfectly?


Well that's the problem. It's too simple.

Grace and peace to you.

The leaven has got so bad , that now when one appears grave and serious , THEY GET accused of being judgers
and not having love . Talk about a delusion . Take a peek at how serious the early church was
and how it looked out for its own . IT DIDNT JUST SAY HUG and over look error . NO they actually corrected error .
But this generation the only thing they seem to correct are those who DO CORRECT .
Talk about a delusion . Ever wonder why the churches are in the state they are now in and getting worse
and fuller and fuller of leaven . CAUSE they quit correcting leaven . THEY Stopped
purging out leaven and correction . IT WONT WORK .
Now enough with todays mindset and let us learn the BIBLICAL MINDSET . WE could learn a lot from the doctrine
and approach of those apostels . Learn it and learn it well .
Tell you what . Take a month of just reading the new testament . Put some good time into it .
A few hours daily every day with lots of prayers .
COME back in a month , and guess what , YOU wont be arugiing wtih me , You would be agreeing .
take that simple challenge . NO books from men , you just go into that bible and read it for YOU .
Watch what happens .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you think you do this perfectly, Amigo? Or anywhere close to perfectly?


Well that's the problem. It's too simple.

Grace and peace to you.

You may as well be aruging with CHRIST . HE Is the one who said HE who loves me obeys , keeps my sayings
and HE who loves me not keeps not my sayings . NOW Keep it direct . TAKE JESUS at HIS WORD
and stop letting men twist or take from or add too it . ITs real simple . IF JESUS said do we do
and if he said not to do we do not do . Take the simple message of the apostels as well .
Learn it well . Feast on those words and let no man convince you otherwise . Like a small babe
just learn Christ . Let the Word and words of Christ humble thy soul and let us learn what the apostels taught .
LET the WORD of GOD , OF CHRIST , OF TRUTH be filled in our hearts and our minds . LEt us be hearers and doers
of all things He and the apostels did instruct and teach . Its pure and its lovely and it
truly converts the soul and works good unto alll who do hear and obey HIM .
BUT let us not be as those who wrest and twist the doctrine unto their own destruction .
Let no man take thy crown . Let us learn JESUS well , let us learn those bibles well .
For many are now preaching another jesus and another gospel . They wont make it on that path .
THEY lead all who do heed them farther and farther away from Christ and deeper and deeper into darkness .
AND they say , ALAS WE SEE , WE HAVE THE LIGHT . but woe unto them
for the light that is in them IS darkness and if the light that is in them be darkness , HOW great that darkness is .
I have come with great love to do all to help the peoples . And others have too .
THE LORD is with the lambs . Let us adorn HIS doctrine ,learn it well . adorn the holy inspired words of truth
that CHRIST and later the apostels would give .

 

[PinSeeker]

Three rambling posts and no answer to my question. Answer my question, Amigo. Please.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[atpollard]

There is no salvation before and apart from calling upon the Lord from a pure heart

Amen.

• [Ezekiel11:19 NASB20] 19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
• [Ezekiel 36:26 NASB20] 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
• [Acts 2:37 NASB20] 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what are we to do?"
• [Acts 16:14 NASB20] 14 A woman named Lydia was listening; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, and a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
• [Philippians 2:12-13 NASB20] 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.

Yesterday, today and forever ... it is God that purifies the human heart and not man.

Hence SALVATION is:

Sola Fide. (By Faith Alone)
Sola Gratia. (Through Grace Alone)
Sola Christo. (In Christ Alone)
Soli Deo Gloria. (To the Glory of God Alone).​

 

[robert derrick]

Amen.

• [Ezekiel11:19 NASB20] 19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
• [Ezekiel 36:26 NASB20] 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
• [Acts 2:37 NASB20] 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what are we to do?"
• [Acts 16:14 NASB20] 14 A woman named Lydia was listening; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, and a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
• [Philippians 2:12-13 NASB20] 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.

Yesterday, today and forever ... it is God that purifies the human heart and not man.

Hence SALVATION is:

Sola Fide. (By Faith Alone)
Sola Gratia. (Through Grace Alone)
Sola Christo. (In Christ Alone)
Soli Deo Gloria. (To the Glory of God Alone).​

So, you have no lust of the world in your heart, as others such as yourself say they will always have in this life?

They say they are still sinners with lust of the world still in their hearts to 'struggle' with.

You are different from them, because your heart is purified and free of lust of the flesh?

 

[PinSeeker]

Hey, Robert, even aside from the fact that John, in 1 John 1:8, says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"...

...why do you think the writer of Hebrews says this?

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider Him who endured from sinners such hostility against Himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?"

'My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by Him. For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and chastises every son whom He receives.'​

"It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."
[Hebrews 12:1-11]​

Yeah, so, why does he exhort us to lay aside sin which clings so closely, and to run with endurance, even noting explicitly our struggle against sin, if we are perfectly repented of our sin, and thus sin-free, as you say you are? And why would the Lord have to discipline us, which He does for those whom He loves, if we are perfectly repented of our sin, and thus sin-free, as you say you are? Does none of what the writer says here apply to you?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[atpollard]

So, you have no lust of the world in your heart, as others such as yourself say they will always have in this life?

They say they are still sinners with lust of the world still in their hearts to 'struggle' with.

You are different from them, because your heart is purified and free of lust of the flesh?

First answer for yourself, to prove honest intentions, and I will gladly respond with equal honesty.

(That is a rather personal question that at first glance seems … NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. [Romans 14:4] )

 

[robert derrick]

First answer for yourself, to prove honest intentions, and I will gladly respond with equal honesty.

(That is a rather personal question that at first glance seems … NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. [Romans 14:4] )

Yes, I have a pure heart free of lust, and a clean mind from thoughts for sins of the flesh.

You just declared your agreement with the need of a pure heart before we can ever call upon the Lord out of a pure heart, and so confirmed you have that pure heart.

Why should you be wary of clarifying what a pure heart is?

And so, once again, what is a pure heart, if not being free from lust of the world?

 

[atpollard]

Yes, I have a pure heart free of lust, and a clean mind from thoughts for sins of the flesh.

No, my heart is not free of all lust and my mind is not free from all sinful thought, but I never cease to fight against this body of flesh and I trust that I have a savior that forgives me when I repent ... even seventy times seven times. [As promised, an honest answer. However based on scripture, I believe that you are self-deceived in your appraisal of your sanctification, so you have my prayers ... ironic, isn't it? ]

“I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am”

― John Newton