Secure Eternal Salvation

[Renniks]

Yup - Jesus alone save - and He applies that salvation in BAPTISM (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 2 Pet. 3:21).

Jesus was not teaching that Nicodemus must be baptized in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context.
Born of water is symbolism for spiritual cleansing.Ezekiel 36:25 :“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities” Which is also what baptism is about...a symbol of a heart already changed.

 

[theefaith]

You did not prove me wrong

And justification is by faith. Not water baptism. You continuing to try to o earn your salvation by the work f water baptism will be rejected by God

Christ established a church to teach the truth, we must be humble enough to be subject to Christ and his teaching in his holy church

 

[theefaith]

Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

 

[theefaith]

We are justified because of redemption. No redemption, no justification,.

Yes but we don’t participate in the redemption only Christ redeemed all men

 

[theefaith]

How

A person who is justified is found no guilty.

If God sends a person who was declaired not guilty to hell. Then God is not a righteous judge.

redemption
Justification
Sanctification
Salvation
Are 4 distinct things

all men are redeemed by Christ’s life death and resurrection. Jn 1:29

justification is our receiving this redemption, life, grace, new creation, member of Christ and his church.

then prayer, alms, fasting, practice of virtures, increasing grace and building up treasures in heaven.

then at the hour of death we enter into God’s salvation completely!

you have free will and can reject Christ, God, renounce baptism, apostasy, and grave sin can separate us from God after justification, and final refusal if grace and repentance, would be eternal!

 

[theefaith]

Ok. Still doesn't refute faith alone saving us. Can real faith be dead and not endure? Whatever good we do is God's work not ours.

Yes it is by grace, I never said works alone! Faith and works in Christ thru grace

 

[theefaith]

My 16:16 ...Shall be saved, is you hoping, continue sinning.
Rom 8:24 ...I am saved, is me knowing, can sin no more.

Not biblical
The just man sins 7 times a day
If we say we have no sin!

still have free will

 

[theefaith]

Pot calling the kettle black.
Catholicism is the church of men.

Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ established a church to teach the truth, we must be humble enough to be subject to Christ and his teaching in his holy church

well we have to determine which church that is.

and there only foolproof way to do that is to test their doctrines using the only inspired source. The bible

Any church that tells you otherwise, is afraid that the bible will not support them. so they have to use outside sources. which can not be trusted and should never be trusted

 

[Marymog]

Taken Question; Who are these men and why do you think they matter?
Marymog Answer: “since I quoted men you disagree with, I am wrong”.

Deflect
Falsely accuse
Is not right

You already know the answer to the question Taken! Why are you asking questions of which you already know the answer?

They are the men of The Church. You already know which Church I'm speaking of so PLEASE don't play dumb with me. Furthermore, if you don't know about those men in the list I provided then you don't know your own Christian history. So PLEASE don't ask me who those men are. You should take the time to learn your own Christian history and NOT rely on me to teach you.

I imagine you are upset because you made a feeble attempt to use one of the greatest saints of The Catholic Church to make your point and it backfired on you. I called you out on it and now your on the attack instead of having a logical discussion. How sad.

Your response to my list was: Keeping Jesus’ TRUTH
Jesus SAID...”FOLLOW ME”.
Jesus SAID...”FOLLOW ME”.

Talk about DEFLECTING Taken. You didn't even address the names given and why you reject them. You accept Augustine when he writes something that you THINK agrees with you but when I give you quetes from him that destroys your narrative you go on the attack saying I falsy accuse you. Instead of defending what you have posted you write some nonsensical response. What does your response even mean in regard to the subject at hand?????? Keeping Jesus TRUTH???? YOU believe that YOU are keeping Jesus truth. Follow me???? What does that have to do with what we are talking about?? Your theory is that since I accept what the men of The Church have written I am not following Jesus? But since you accept what YOU have written YOU are following Jesus???? You wanna know the most weird thing about this entire discussion Taken: It is that you accepted what Augustine wrote and tried to use it as ammunition against Peter being the Rock of The Church; it's first Pope. But when your theory is destroyed and I quote other writings from Augustine and other men of The Church......all of a sudden you ask "Who are these men and why to you think they matter?" Why did you think Augustine mattered Taken? Why did you quote him if you didn't think he mattered????? Are you being a hypocrite? STOP playing games and have a serious discussion PLEASE

What did I falsely accuse you of Taken???? The FACT is I quoted men that YOU disagree with. Are you saying you agree with those men in regard to the subject we are talking about???? If you do agree with them then I didn't falsely accuse you of anything kiddo. I suspect you will deflect my direct questions.....but that is pare for the course and it is not right.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes but we don’t participate in the redemption only Christ redeemed all men

we don't participate in justification. Only Christ can justify us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

redemption
Justification
Sanctification
Salvation
Are 4 distinct things

all men are redeemed by Christ’s life death and resurrection. Jn 1:29

justification is our receiving this redemption, life, grace, new creation, member of Christ and his church.

then prayer, alms, fasting, practice of virtures, increasing grace and building up treasures in heaven.

then at the hour of death we enter into God’s salvation completely!

you have free will and can reject Christ, God, renounce baptism, apostasy, and grave sin can separate us from God after justification, and final refusal if grace and repentance, would be eternal!

Justification- a legal term, declared righteous. Can only be granted by a judge
Sanctification- two types. Positional, we are in christ perfected forever, and conditional. every second of every day we are in some sort of christian growth which determins how sanctifed we are here on earth
Salvation - justified, redeemed, Saved from the penalty of sin. Your either saved or your not saved there is no inbetween

I have been saved. If I am not saved, or my salvation is not secure in christ. I am not really saved. and the word of God has lied.

You want to try to earn your salvation. yet the bible says you can not. so I am not sure why you are trying to earn something you can never earn.

 

[theefaith]

well we have to determine which church that is.

and there only foolproof way to do that is to test their doctrines using the only inspired source. The bible

Any church that tells you otherwise, is afraid that the bible will not support them. so they have to use outside sources. which can not be trusted and should never be trusted

Without the authority of Christ in his church you cannot know even what is or what is not scripture! Cannot believe any truth until it is revealed by Christ and proposed for our belief by holy mother church

 

[theefaith]

we don't participate in justification. Only Christ can justify us.

By faith and baptism Mk 16:16

 

[theefaith]

Justification- a legal term, declared righteous. Can only be granted by a judge
Sanctification- two types. Positional, we are in christ perfected forever, and conditional. every second of every day we are in some sort of christian growth which determins how sanctifed we are here on earth
Salvation - justified, redeemed, Saved from the penalty of sin. Your either saved or your not saved there is no inbetween

I have been saved. If I am not saved, or my salvation is not secure in christ. I am not really saved. and the word of God has lied.

You want to try to earn your salvation. yet the bible says you can not. so I am not sure why you are trying to earn something you can never earn.

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus was not teaching that Nicodemus must be baptized in order to be saved. Baptism is nowhere mentioned in the context.
Born of water is symbolism for spiritual cleansing.Ezekiel 36:25 :“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities” Which is also what baptism is about...a symbol of a heart already changed.

WOW.
The fact that you can write these 2 sentences and NOT see that they are related is mid-boggling . . .

Exek. 36:35-37 is a prophecy about Baptism:
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

The NT uses the same language to convey the reality of Baptismal Regeneration . . .

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

Tit. 3:4-8
but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit

1 Pet. 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

[Eternally Grateful]

9

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

WORKS salvation 101
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9. not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

The bible can not contradict.

Either all of these passages i just posted are in error

Or the passages you posted you have misinterpreted, and in doing so cause the bible to contradict.

either way, It is of grace or works. Not both period.


I will pray for you

 

[Taken]

Not biblical
The just man sins 7 times a day

LOL

If we say we have no sin!

You obviously do not KNOW the difference between;
Remaining Dead in your sins, and continuing to sin.
And
Forgiven sins, and sin no more

^^ neither of those persons claim to have NO SIN .^^.
You bringing up that point is irrelevant.

still have free will

Still have freewill ..... incomplete thought, incomplete sentence.
Still have freewill, WHEN? Sill after what?

 

[Taken]

Christ is King of Glory!

Sure, I know that...
But yet you preach His power is dwarfed compared to your own.

 

[Illuminator]

well we have to determine which church that is.

and there only foolproof way to do that is to test their doctrines using the only inspired source. The bible

Any church that tells you otherwise, is afraid that the bible will not support them. so they have to use outside sources. which can not be trusted and should never be trusted

A self refuting statement. The Bible doesn't tell us how many books belong in the NT, you have to go to outside sources to find out how we got the Bible. Bible origin fantasies is not the truth. Do you at least accept the Council of Nicae in 325 that defended the Trinity from the heretic Arius??