Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Oh, nonsense! Like my mind is so inflexible! But I can read the Bible, and clearly see what it says. Which you've never actually disputed, only to claim it doesn't mean what it says.
You know I'm not in disagreement with this!
I think you need to refresh your understanding of ad hominem attack.
The word means to rescue, like that, so whatever is being rescued, if you pull a cat from a tree, you've saved it, in the sotero since. And if God begets you into His family, and says that's forever, you are eternally and everlastingly saved, still in that sotero sense, you just look at the context.
How about those everlasting stamps you get from the post office?
I'm talking about what the verses say. Instead of responding with a rebuttal of what the verses say, you respond, many times, with you're assertions of what it is about me that makes me respond the way I do. Rather than speak toward the topic, and why you agree or disagree with my points from a Biblical standpoint, you play pop pschologist and give your so-called analysis of me.
...if you keep believing.
I'm telling you that you are understanding verses with OSAS presuppositions. That's just a matter of the doctrine you have chosen to believe, not a personal attack on you. Your doctrine says that wherever you see 'saved' in reference to spiritual salvation it means 'forever saved'. And so you automatically interpret the verse according to that presupposition. It's the famous circuclar reasoning of OSAS—"We know salvation can't be lost because salvation means you can't lose it".
No, it's, "he had the life that God gives, which lasts forever, until he didn't have it anymore."
What does everlasting/ eternal life mean?
But you can hide anything you want behind the word believe if you are not going to define it, I believe the sun will rise tomorrow unless Jesus comes back..... doesn't change anything,My point is It depends on what you think those words mean, Often times people have been taught wrongly what words mean, even basic words, Its actually a big problem, That's why Scripture needs to interpret Scripture@Ronald Nolette Great, assuring quotes for the believer!OSAS is biblical!
Colossians 3:3-4
King James Version
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ephesians 2:5-7
King James Version
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:28-39
King James Version
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:28-29
King James Version
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 3:36
King James Version
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Philippians 1:6
King James Version
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 13:5
King James Version
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
There are many others as well.
Your verses you cite are all about our experience and receiving the consequences of sin in this life. what you and so many others who falsely believe one can lose their salvation fail in is that you reject the fact the sin does not sned a person to hell! Jesus died for all the sins of the world! So bad deeds do not send one ot hell.
Also you have to conclude that Jesus did not die for all your sins if you can lose your salvation, which is sheer foolishness!
also you forget that when one receives Christ by faith- the old man is killed and the new man is born which is being fashioned into the image of Jesus!
We live in two truths. Positional truth and expriential truth. Positionally we are already seen as perfect, and experientially god is cutting the old habits away and replacing them with new Godly ones and Jesus will complete that good work.
YOu call OSAS a man made theory, well believing one can lose their salvation comes direct from the pit of hell.
It does mean that. The problem is thinking that has to mean you can't lose it.
Believing means trusting. You have to trust in God's forgiveness all the way to the very end to be saved in the very end. The person who does not trust in God's forgiveness is not saved. You don't get to keep the benefit of God's forgiveness that you no longer believe/trust in.
I don't dispute scripture. What I dispute is the inference that you draw from scripture. An erroneous inference because it ignores other scripture about the matter.
It means exactly what it says. The problem is you're leaving out other information and coming to the wrong conclusion of what it means.
How long do I need to endure in order to know I'm saved?
Now that I've shown you that Paul can not be saying that not enduring shows you are not really saved we can see that falling away can mean you simply stopped believing just as it may mean you never really believed to begin with.
I think learning about scripture in context would assist you greatly.
Once again. A perfect confirmation of no refute, but only enraged opinion.
