Seeing Signs....Spiritually

[whirlwind]

Folks, I am asking a person to state what spiritual gifts that the person believes he has been given.

Making such an inquiry about a person's spiritual gifts is not being divisive.

Good morning Dodo,

You are not asking about spiritual gifts. Rather you are asking about administrations. My answer is...there is One Lord God and one body of Christ of whom we are all members...regardless of spiritual gifts or differences of administrations.



1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

12:4-5 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi David,

This post has been edited and added to for clarity, immediately after posting.

I am not asking you to confirm my guesswork, so don't suspect that I am. My guess is that you have been brought up in a church - or entered a church as a new Christian - where the question you are asking whirlwind is common currency. You may even have attended workshops which asked you to fill out questionnaires on your own uncrucified natural gifts and talents, being told you are expected to use them for the Lord, now, (in an effort on the part of 'the leadership', or some visiting speaker, first to determine and then to inform you that these are your 'spiritual' gifts.) Or, maybe this has been done to you more subtly, where after one or two occasions when you have spoken the word of God prophetically or in prayer, into a fellow-believer's life, someone (more 'senior') has come up to you and told you they can tell you have been gifted in such-and-such a way. Note, the emphasis is all on you. There is nothing in all the foregoing which has anything to do with God, whatever - except as you have been obedient to His word at any given moment. And you would not want to boast about that, because you know it is all Him, and nothing to do with 'you', except as you abide in Him, obediently moving and speaking as He directs, instant by instant.

Knowledge puffs up. 1 Corinthians 4d

Also, whether you realise it or not, the tone, and interjection of your original question, sounded as if you were fixing to bring your own definition of what a prophet or an apostle is (whether biblical or not), to judge what whirlwind had offered in the context he gave it, of spiritual insight, as if your limited view is somehow more acceptable than his limited view, when really, we are all here freely to share the perspectives the Lord has given us, or worked into us through the years that we have known Him, for each other's benefit.

1 Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

It is not clear why - or how - having the answer to your question would make any difference to your judgement, since we are all free to judge according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what is, or is not, spiritual. And this has nothing to do with whether someone (personally) agrees with what God has shown another person, because God is free to direct according to His own good pleasure. And in this case, as New Covenant believers, the emphasis is very much on Him, and His word moment by moment.

We see this in various places in scripture, both in the Old and the New Testament, and it is our expectation with the gifts - whether the people or the administration of a gift in a given moment) that they never become 'ours', for that very reason.

In fact, the idea that the gifts become ours, is one aspect of the Word-of-Faith-prosperity gospel- teaching, that is wholly unscriptural. We do not need to make any claims for ourselves, or what we can do through Christ and His Spirit, because we are at all times to have Him in our focus, giving Him the pre-eminence and all the glory.

John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Rocky Wiley.

Retrobyter,

The tribes of Israel would have realized that coming in the clouds, would not mean they would actually see God. The fact he was talking to the Jews, means that the gentiles were not even invited to the event. It happened in 70 AD.

You are one of several that makes me think and study God's word.

Thanks

And thank you for letting me know that I'm helping you to think and study God's Word.

However, the "coming in the clouds" did not happen in 70 A.D.

Acts 1:6-12
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

Daniel 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
KJV

Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
KJV

Matthew 26:64
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
KJV

Mark 14:62
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
KJV

Revelation 1:4-7
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
KJV

When one understands that "heaven" simply means the "sky," it becomes crystal clear that "the clouds of heaven" are indeed "the clouds of the SKY!" The SAME CLOUDS AT WHICH WE LOOK WHEN WE LOOK UP IN THE SKY TODAY! He didn't "dissipate on the wind"; He simply rose into the air until the clouds hid Him from view! When He returns, He will LITERALLY descend from the sky through the clouds, appearing to men once again!

If there's one thing this generation needs it's a translation that recognizes the simple truths of Scripture, like "heaven is the sky," "angels are messengers, human or otherwise," "a church is a gathering of people," "a spirit is a forceful breath or a blowing," and a "soul is a living creature." When we can understand these simple truths, it will change the way that we look at the Scriptures. It brings it down to earth without compromising the validity of Scripture!

Look at Acts again with "sky" or "the sky" in place of "heaven":

Acts 1:6-12
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward the sky as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into the sky? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into the sky, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into the sky.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

Seriously, can you feel how the words change to the simple, mundane, and obvious when you make this one single substitution? As Charlie ("Tremendous") Jones used to say, "See it big, keep it simple!"

 

[michaelvpardo]

Illumination:

Hebrews 10:31-33 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

To be illuminated is to be "lightened, made to see." We are given spiritual understanding...eyes and ears.


Revelation:


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation He made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

To receive revelation is to be "lightened, revealed." We are given spiritual understanding...eyes and ears.


Both (for they are the same) means one is taught by the Holy Spirit. Deeper meaning of the written Word is revealed and that is to see the Word spiritually.







I claim nothing. I provide understanding as I am given...do with it as you will. I am to speak His Words to you and then...my part ends.

As you are rather snidely suggesting, by writing "if you really are hearing" as well as freely giving advice....I feel free to offer you the following:

1. I ALWAYS provide Scriptural validation for the illumination/revelations are given me as I search the Scriptures.

2. I do not take the advice, as you have, of "Biblical Scholars" over understanding given by the Holy spirit. They are men...as are you and I.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

3. I'm not sure you are understanding your remark of "private interpretation." All prophecy of the Scripture is the Word of God...provided by God. It is the written word. There are NO MORE new things for us to know for Jesus said, "I have foretold you all things." Todays prophets provide spiritual understanding of the already written Word....as moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The passage does not mean the Holy Spirit does not provide interpretations TODAY of the written Word for He certainly does.

I agree that the Holy Spirit gives us the interpretation of scripture when we take time to read them and restrict our thinking to sound exegetical principles, but men are inclined to superimpose their own ideas and vain imaginations upon scripture, which is part of the reason that there are so many cults in the world. However, there is only one unique interpretation of scripture given by the Holy Spirit which is that truth that He meant to teach by it. There may be "deeper" meanings as these things pertain to Christ; The description of the tabernacle used during the wilderness wandering of the tribes of Israel, and then in the lands of conquest until the building of the temple by King Solomon, is of a pattern shown to Moses that represents things in heaven and I've listened to some great teaching about how the various elements represent things about Christ and His ministry to us, but the descriptions given in scripture were first primarily instructional to the Levites who would be responsible for the use and care of the articles, and for the artisans that would craft them in the first place, and their proper interpretation was just that. If Uzzah had understood this point, he probably wouldn't have reached out to the ark of the covenant to keep it from falling and been struck dead. If David the king had understood this point, he probably would've had the Levites carry the ark by the poles described for that purpose in the text of Exodus rather than attempt transporting it on a cart (which led to Uzzah's death.)
As a general principle, if the Holy Spirit is going to reveal something of a deeper nature about the meaning of some biblical text, He will reveal the same thing to more than one person. This is in accordance to God's own word:
Deuteronomy 19:15
"One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.

I understand that this instruction is specifically about matters of law and sin, but every interpretation of scripture is itself a matter of law and sin, because of God's commandment with regard to altering the content of scripture:
Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
Proverbs 30:5-6
5. Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6. Do not add to His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.
Revelation 22:18-19
18. For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19. and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Lord typically doesn't ask anything of us that He isn't willing to do Himself and came to earth in the person of His Son to do those things which He commanded of us under the Law, which no other man was able to faithfully keep. He has always provided at least two witnesses to establish the truth of a matter. As examples look at the transfiguration of Christ in the gospel according to Mathew (chapter 17) and at the ascension of Christ in the book of acts (1:10-11).

Even Satan is aware of this and uses three demons, not one, when establishing the power of his anti-Christ in the world (Revelation 16:13-14)

What I'm saying to you, and not snidely (as you put it), is that no one who knows the scripture will believe any of your "interpretations" unless another witness is able to verify the same from scripture, and since all of us who have received His Spirit have that witness of Christ within us, you'd expect Him to verify any "interpretation" given to you if we actually needed to know it. I'm not trying to simply shut you down, as there are many people here who profess to know the Lord, yet come up with different meanings of scripture, but these are more often that not "spiritualized" interpretations of text and not the plain interpretation of what was explicitly stated. e.g. The Pre-tribulation rapture hypothesis which is never explicitly stated in scripture but inferred from a number of unrelated texts, and a violation of simple exegetical principles.
You don't have to take my advice or the advice of anyone here, but wisdom considers godly counsel.