Salvation is about Righteousness...."God's Righteousness".....and this is Given Freely to All who will believe.
It can't be earned, and its not a work you do.
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Salvation is about Righteousness...."God's Righteousness".....and this is Given Freely to All who will believe.
It can't be earned, and its not a work you do.
In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.
Your doing works has no part in God's Gift of Salvation.
Cain tried do that in Genesis, He tried to offer his own works to God as a part of God's Salvation, and God sent Him away, and God will do the same to you.
Listen, Jesus's BLOOD is your Salvation.
Do you have a part in that?
You seem to think you do.
You dont.
Salvation is a Gift from God......so, receive it by faith.......and you have it.
Its a "GIFT".... "The GIFT of Salvation".
And now that you have Salvation ...........go and do your works........not to be saved or to try to stay saved........but because you ARE Saved.
Our works follow our Salvation., they don't cause it or complete it.
It is important to recognize that the Bible can speak against being required to do works for an incorrect reason without speaking against because required to do them for the reasons that God commanded them, so while it is true that works have no part in earning our salvation, it is false that they have no part in God's gift of salvation (Titus 2:11-13, Matthew 1:21, 1 John 3:4). The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it.
Similarly, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of getting to know God and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not for how to earn it. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about the way to experience that gift, not the way to earn eternal life.
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20). In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, so obedience is part of the content of our gift of salvation, not a way to earn it.
You can't "earn Salvation".
Jesus is Salvation.
His Blood, His Death, is : SALVATON.
You dont "earn" this.......you RECEIVE IT, as a GIFT..... "The Gift of SALVATION" = ...from God..... = Its the '"BLOOD Atonment".......the "NEW Covenant".... that God made with JESUS......not with us.
The Covenant is between Jesus the Sacrifice and GOD the Judge...... thats the '"New Covenant".
So, Jesus is JUDGED for our sin, and we are made righteous by FAITH in Christ. exactly as "Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it (his Faith) was counted by God as RIGHTEOUSNESS">.
Our works have nothing to do with it.
You quoted me as saying that works have no part in earning our salvation, so then why are you continuing to argue that we can’t earn our salvation instead of interacting with what I said?
Here is what you actually said.
I'll quote you..
@Soyeong said.
""""so while it is true that works have no part in earning our salvation, it is false that they have no part in God's gift of salvation ""
See, you dont even understand that God's Gift of Salvation is a Gift.
This is why you keep trying to add your works to His Gift,and God rejects your works as "our works are as a filthy rag before God".
Salvation is Jesus on The Cross doing something for you, for Free. = "The Gift of Salvation".
You dont understand this, and i dont think you ever will as you are on different forums for a long time, trying to prove your "Works + Faith" false Gospel.
Listen.. God is not interested in your works.........God is only interested in your FAITH.
A.) "without FAITH,......its impossible to please God".
I said that that it is true that works have no part in earning our salvation, yet you continued to argue that works have no part in earning our salvation. I said that it is false that works have no part in God's gift of salvation, yet you argue that I don't understand that God's gift of salvation is a gift, so arguing against positions that I don't hold. I've given you examples of how a gift can intrinsically require someone to do works in order to experience and cited Scripture to support this, yet you ignore this.
In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people hyperbolically complaining about God not coming down and making His presence known. The reality is that God is not commanded of filthy rags, but rather the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8). Why do you think that God called for His children to repent from our sins and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible if God then rejects our obedience?
I have not suggested faith + works. It is not the case that we need to add our works to our faith as if faith alone were insufficient but rather we embody our faith through our works, such as with the examples listed in Hebrews 11 or with James 2:18. The way to have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live is by obeying His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in His instructions.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your attitude Behold, is one of preaching AT. It is embodied in the way you present your case.
I for one find this condescending as well as distasteful.....and in the post above, you speak out of both sides of your mouth....unaware of it.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
It is the completion of the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit that you must be abiding IN Jesus to receive. Jesus is the one maturing us. This is a process some erroneously call sanctification, but is actually glorification we receive while living on the earth, not after we die.
THere is only one way to abide in Jesus.......and that is to be born again into Him as "in Christ".
So, all believers sare abiding there, spiritually.
Now a believer can "fall from Grace" and become "without me you can do nothing"......Jesus said.
= This is a Christian who is "seated in heavenly places", and is "in Christ", but they have no correct understanding that Salvation is eternal, and that they have.beome "the righteousness of God is Christ" .. forever.
So, they are not aware of this.. because they had bad teachers who are connected to carnal denominations and they have bad commentaries and all have taught them a works based misunderstanding of God's Grace......So, their wrong minded Christianity is to try to perform for God as their idea of abiding and of being Holy, as well as trying to stay saved.
TrevorHL
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Greetings again Behold,
John 15:1-12 (KJV): 1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
1 Peter 1:14-16 (KJV): 13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Kind regards
Trevor
I am not attempting to defend the above as it is an extreme, but I am not sure how you would understand the following:
John 15:1-12 (KJV): 1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
1 Peter 1:14-16 (KJV): 13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Kind regards
Trevor
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
How about a little context. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham's faith remained dead in Genesis 15:6 until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. It also does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22 either.
When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Yet Abraham was still accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
Greek/Hebrew Definitions
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes his at Matt 6:33=YHVH(Jehovah) his God and Father. Its all about the Father in the gospel Jesus teaches.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You added to God's word what HE did not say = Big SIN
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
The Kingdom of God is the LORD Jesus Christ = Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in Christ dwells all the fullness of the DEITY(God) in bodily form;
@Keiw - unless you turn to Christ and bow your heart of watchtower deception, you will never see God
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The reason WHY = Christians get locked into Hebrews 6:1......and never grow, never spiritually mature, and die never having achieved what Paul states as "the fullness of the stature of Christ"....... is because they put themselves under the law.
Now, this does not mean that a Hebrews 6:1 is trying to keep 613 "Moses's Laws"...no.
It means that they are trying to produce the fruit of the spirit, by self effort.
They are trying to DO Rightesouessness as a self effort, vs, understanding that they are MADE RIGHTEOUS by God, thrrough Faith... already and forever.
So, when we "seek God's Righteousness" we are not to try to DO IT.........We are to understand we have it, and exist in this RIGHT FAITH, which produces the fruit of the Spirit and a Holy Life.
Reader... God's Righteousness is not what you try to perform.....its what God has given to a BELIEVER, as "imputed"...
Its a GIFT from God.
= "The Gift of Righteousness" that is eternal.
A BELIEVER receives this Gift by Faith, and this establishes them before God as having become "THE righteousness of God, in Christ"... forever.
Now, this does not mean that a Hebrews 6:1 is trying to keep 613 "Moses's Laws"...no.
It means that they are trying to produce the fruit of the spirit, by self effort.
They are trying to DO Rightesouessness as a self effort, vs, understanding that they are MADE RIGHTEOUS by God, thrrough Faith... already and forever.
So, when we "seek God's Righteousness" we are not to try to DO IT.........We are to understand we have it, and exist in this RIGHT FAITH, which produces the fruit of the Spirit and a Holy Life.
Reader... God's Righteousness is not what you try to perform.....its what God has given to a BELIEVER, as "imputed"...
Its a GIFT from God.
= "The Gift of Righteousness" that is eternal.
A BELIEVER receives this Gift by Faith, and this establishes them before God as having become "THE righteousness of God, in Christ"... forever.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
I added nothing. Yes Jesus is Lord-Not (LORD of OT. YHWH or YHVH in Hebrew is correct= Jehovah the acceptable name. Yes God( Jehovah) gave all things to Jesus, otherwise Jesus doesn't have them do you understand. Billions have said the Lords prayer, over and over, yet don't understand it. Jesus teaches all there, his Father's name is the #1 issue for all involved, then the Fathers kingdom and his Fathers will. Then self and others.
The bible is clear about that name- Must be praised( Psalm 99:3)-96:2-103:1-100:4--Call on that name- Psalm 99:6-Joel 2:21-22( quoted at Rom 10:13 Acts 2:21)-Give thanks to his name (Psalm 105:1) Name MUST be used (Romans 10:13-14) Name must be known by all ( 1Kings 8:43)------ That name is YHVH(Jehovah)
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You CANNOT be saved by the name jehovah for God will not accept you under that name.
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being examined today about a kind service to a man who was lame, to determine how he was healed, then let this be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel:
It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
This Jesus is
‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation exists in no one else,
for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
Yaweh Yeshua HaMashiach = Lord Jesus Christ
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, no one gets to the Father but through me( or name)--Getting to the Father Jehovah is ones goal. The way, the truth, the life = Learning, applying and obeying on the mortals end. Everything originates with the Father it goes through Jesus.
In the Lords prayer did Jesus say to do anything for him? Its all about the Father to Jesus-every step of the way. Mark 14:36--Matt 7:21) goes for the true followers as well.
The bible is clear-Joel 2:21-22-Those calling on the name of Jehovah will be saved. Quoted at Acts 2:21-Rom 10:13)--Doing the above-learning, applying and obeying is what we do for Jesus to find the way into Gods kingdom, by doing his Fathers will( Matt 7:21)
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