Separation of Church and State a Red Herring.

[Brakelite]

Yes, "separation of church and state" sounds like it could be the answer to the problem, but it's just another moving part of the problem.

You are incredibly confusing. You correctly advocate desisted from the world, and at the same time advocate for the church uniting with the state. So contradictory.

We errantly think the answer lies with politics. Folks are obsessed with salvation through politics.

With this is agree, yet that's exactly what I've been railing against in this thread, it's what is taking place now in American politics, and yet here you are objecting to my posts. Again, contradictory.

God commands the parents to raise their children, not ungodly strangers in some school run by Caesar. Do schools bring our children up in the fear and admonition of the Lord? On the contrary, they outlaw prayer from its schools, forbid the Ten Commandments from being taught, and in its place teach the false theory of evolution. Schools teach our children that they're beasts, and have evolved from some primordial ooze, to a sub-human creature, into the animal they now are. They are just one of the many kinds of animals inhabiting this little globe called earth. So we shouldn't be surprised when they behave like animals; children killing other children for tennis shoes or jackets, or because they believe they have been somehow wronged by their victims; stealing and killing for all kinds of selfish motivations; or, when these children turn into adults, using whatever means they can find to advance their careers, their "wants," not caring who they hurt in the process.

There are options, but not everyone is in the position to send their kids to parochial schools, or home-schooling.

Rather, separation of the believer from the world of the unbeliever is the answer.

Absolutely. But again, contradictory with what you present elsewhere.

So why would any believer expose his child to such a place? Why would a believer pursue any thing "secular"?

The world is limited in work opportunities that are purely in service to God. But one can bring godliness into a secular career. Otherwise we become hermits or monks living useless lives to the benefit of none.

The schools are founded on the premise that there is no God. The believer is not to be found within them.

As I said there are options but not everyone is as blessed that they can take advantage of them.

I find it curious that the church in America is so adamant that the Ten Commandments be displayed everywhere like some advertising billboard, but don't beleive that those same commandments actually apply to them.

 

[Brakelite]

So daughters are only fit to be housewives and baby producing machines?

Are sons only fit to be pastors and priests?

^^^^^^what he said thinking I was.

 

[Ziggy]

The world is limited in work opportunities that are purely in service to God. But one can bring godliness into a secular career. Otherwise we become hermits or monks living useless lives to the benefit of none.

Jhn 17:14
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

 

[The Learner]

Yes, "separation of church and state" sounds like it could be the answer to the problem, but it's just another moving part of the problem. The end never justifies the means.

Imagine a believer, appearing before Caesar's traffic court, awaiting judgement by unbelievers! Likewise with Caesar's public schools. We send our children to the godless government/corporate indoctrination centers for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and then commiserate when they turn out to be like the unbelievers of the world.

We errantly think the answer lies with politics. Folks are obsessed with salvation through politics.

The responsibility of raising children lies with the father and mother of that child, and it is unscriptural to place that responsibility upon others, especially the soulless State:

Ephesians 6:4, "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."

God commands the parents to raise their children, not ungodly strangers in some school run by Caesar. Do schools bring our children up in the fear and admonition of the Lord? On the contrary, they outlaw prayer from its schools, forbid the Ten Commandments from being taught, and in its place teach the false theory of evolution. Schools teach our children that they're beasts, and have evolved from some primordial ooze, to a sub-human creature, into the animal they now are. They are just one of the many kinds of animals inhabiting this little globe called earth. So we shouldn't be surprised when they behave like animals; children killing other children for tennis shoes or jackets, or because they believe they have been somehow wronged by their victims; stealing and killing for all kinds of selfish motivations; or, when these children turn into adults, using whatever means they can find to advance their careers, their "wants," not caring who they hurt in the process.

It requires a strong, perhaps tyrannical, government to control that kind of a population -- like the one currently fomenting in USA. Governments are always glad to oblige (witness the OP). Maybe that's why they don't like to see prayer and scripture reading in schools. Maybe that's why they insist that schools teach we are just another animal in the long chain of the evolutionary process.

Rather, touch not the unclean thing.

We need a winner icon

 

[doctrox]

You are incredibly confusing. You correctly advocate desisted from the world, and at the same time advocate for the church uniting with the state. So contradictory.

You're the only one who has misconstrued my posts. The $64,000 question is, why?

[folks are obsessed with salvation through politics] With this is agree, yet that's exactly what I've been railing against in this thread, it's what is taking place now in American politics, and yet here you are objecting to my posts. Again, contradictory.

This is not about your "railing against"; this is about the trap you have set for those who would innocently explore your OP.

There are options, but not everyone is in the position to send their kids to parochial schools, or home-schooling.

"...in the position..."? One does not need to become a contortionist to walk in the true liberty of Jesus Christ.

[separation of the believer from the world of the unbeliever is the answer] Absolutely. But again, contradictory with what you present elsewhere.

Again, pure sophistry born of the spirit of double mindedness.

The world is limited in work opportunities that are purely in service to God. But one can bring godliness into a secular career. Otherwise we become hermits or monks living useless lives to the benefit of none.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I find it curious that the church in America is so adamant that the Ten Commandments be displayed everywhere like some advertising billboard, but don't beleive that those same commandments actually apply to them.

"...the Ten Commandments" retort = 100% anticipated! Like your quote above, the OP itself is a red herring. It's a dishonest slide into blatant promotion of denominationalism.

Why would any position that does not validate SDA doctrine as preeminent become mere fodder for your cause célèbre? Why would SDA rhetoric continually attempt to trump the true liberty found only in Jesus Christ?

You are one of the more articulate posters in this forum (and elsewhere). The accountability level is high, even as we are warned to "be not many masters." However, your posts remain conflicted by your dogma ala:

What you would be attempting to implement is a carbon copy of medieval Europe and the papal control over people's minds and hearts.

...another anticipated and disingenuous retort that accomplishes nothing for the kingdom of God while sullying your calling.

...the RCC, the papacy as the Antichrist, Sunday worship, the 10 Commandments, the 7 mountain mandate, ad nauseum... Pretentious OP's are for pretenders. It's time to move from historicism to reality, from the milk to the meat, my friend.

We need a winner icon

We have but one; his name is: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

So daughters are only fit to be housewives and baby producing machines?\

"only...housewives"??? Is that some kind of declension, some kind of step-down, from something else? something more worldly? something that involves chasing mammon? Rather, there is no higher calling for a woman than to bear and raise Godly seed.

But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Are sons only fit to be pastors and priests?

"only"??? At the least, I hope so! If you're a believer, then what are you "fit to be"? Let me tell you something about my family: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.

 

[Brakelite]

The "separation of church and state" is a lie - a seductive doctrine of men that exalts itself above God - not withstanding the RCC (or the SDA!).

How does a republican government protect minorities as stated in the declaration of Independance, but at the same time be a church/ state union which legislates Christian worship? Remember, the constitution was written by the same people who wrote the DoI.
Babylon the Great and her apostate daughters together riding the state beast. Which brand of Christian faith constitute the contents of the golden cup in her hand, which she forces the nations to drink?

 

[Ziggy]

Which brand of Christian faith constitute the contents of the golden cup in her hand, which she forces the nations to drink?

Amigo knows.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Imagine a believer, appearing before Caesar's traffic court, awaiting judgement by unbelievers!

Imagine...

Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

Imagine a believer, appearing before Caesar's traffic court, awaiting judgement by unbelievers!

Imagine the Son of God appearing before the Sanhedrin awaiting the judgment of His own. Wounded in the house of My friends.

It's a dishonest slide into blatant promotion of denominationalism.

No, it's eschatological reality being played out under your nose and you refuse to see where it will lead, because your denominational prejudice blinds you.

 

[Brakelite]

Amigo knows.

Hugs

Uh oh, have I unwittingly encouraged the next half dozen Amigo essays?

 

[doctrox]

How does a republican government protect minorities as stated in the declaration of Independance,

It could not and does not. The DoI is just another piece of paper with signatures on it - a contract - that can be altered or renegotiated at any time. You're giving airtime to a dead thing because it suits your incessant promotion of denominationalism.

but at the same time be a church/ state union which legislates Christian worship? Remember, the constitution was written by the same people who wrote the DoI.

Yep, same people, same unbelievers - another day, another contract. The Constitution and the DoI are for those of the world.

What would any believer have to do with anyone who would presume to "legislate Christianity"?

Babylon the Great and her apostate daughters together riding the state beast. Which brand of Christian faith constitute the contents of the golden cup in her hand, which she forces the nations to drink?

Again, that's not relevant to your ostensibly sensible OP. Continuing to force your agenda only ruins your witness (if you have one).


@Ziggy, Trump is a maga, a high level witch. He is of the house of Dan...

Maga (मग): a magian, a priest of the sun; the term for Zoroastrians.

Imagine the Son of God appearing before the Sanhedrin awaiting the judgment of His own. Wounded in the house of My friends.

Exactly what you'd anticipate if you're following the inventions of men (e.g. worldly contracts and powerless denominations). Come out from among them and be ye separate...

No, it's eschatological reality being played out under your nose and you refuse to see where it will lead, because your denominational prejudice blinds you.

O contraire! Your denominational spirit has come full circle back to you. Recall I was the one who brought up denominationalism (as your fav red herring, as exemplified in your pretentious OP), with which you would now attempt to gaslight me! These are truly the last days.

 

[Ziggy]

@Ziggy, Trump is a maga, a high level witch. He is of the house of Dan...

Maga (मग): a magian, a priest of the sun; the term for Zoroastrians.

Witches and Warlocks.

'Guardians' of intelligence.

Not all Magi are witches.

Mat 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Some say he is a time traveler too.

Look, at this point, anything is possible. LOL

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

IYKYK

If You Know You Know

Hugs

 

[doctrox]

Witches and Warlocks.

'Guardians' of intelligence.

Not all Magi are witches.

Just more the the same gnostic nonsense.

Some say [Jesus] is a time traveler too.

He created time; he's outside of it. Can't wait to shift to where he's at.

Look, at this point, anything is possible. LOL

Agreed; with Christ, it is.

 

[Ziggy]

Just more the the same gnostic nonsense.


He created time; he's outside of it. Can't wait to shift to where he's at.


Agreed; with Christ, it is.

Well, men write the history. I believe God can use any means of communication to spread His message across.
Would you say Nebuchadnezzar was a gnostic?
So how does God speak to Gnostics?
How does he get their attention that it is God himself that holds all the cards?
Sometimes you have to let them get shot at a couple times to wake them up.
Or drag them through tedious time and money consuming lawsuits.
Humiliate them.
Kind of like Nebuchadnezzar. You have to show them who's boss.
It doesn't mean you lose the kingdom, just your pride.
The Bible talks about taking base men, maybe the worst of the worst, and can change them, even without losing their status.

Just like the young rich man in the parable that was missing just one thing.
Now if he had handed everything over to the poor and followed the Lord, he would still be rich. And richer too.
See Job.

Funny too, the only one that hasn't capitulated yet, but will be soon, Iran.
They got a little too big for their britches. Terrorizing people. And the proxies like hamas, and hezbollah and the houthis, little minions of evil. Suppressing, oppressing people through fear.

Threatening nuclear annihilation to their neighbors. Trying to make them capitulate.
Taking hostages, and devising mischief to the world.
Well that kingdom just fell.
Now the Persians can have returned to them what was stolen. Their identity.

And the more you give, the more you receive.
The problem is, most people choose not to see the giving part. They are more focused on the rewards for that act of giving.

Why can't we have nice things?

It's not like you can just pick up a Ballroom and move it to another state.
That Ballroom will belong to We the People. It will be fortified and safe.
Cleaning and repairing a Reflection pool that will always be there so we remember Our identity.

It's not about what you see, it's what you don't see.
Nobody takes the time to listen and reflect.

If you're not where he's at, you best be on your way. Time is short.

With God all things are possible.

Mat 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Hugs

 

[The Learner]

ouch

 

[Brakelite]

It could not and does not. The DoI is just another piece of paper with signatures on it - a contract - that can be altered or renegotiated at any time. You're giving airtime to a dead thing because it suits your incessant promotion of denominationalism

Religious liberty is a God given right and God has appointed the government to protect it. That isn't denominationalusm. Ask the Baptists.

The Constitution and the DoI are for those of the world.

I see. So Christians can ignore the bill of rights?

 

[Ziggy]

I'm sure there are a lot of threads I could put this, but this is as good as any.

Part 2: Sharia-Free America: Why Political Islam & Sharia Law are Incompatible with The Constitution​

Live now.

Hugs

 

[doctrox]

Sometimes...You have to show them who's boss.
It doesn't mean you lose the kingdom, just your pride.

I reckon pride is the #1 impediment.

Just like the young rich man in the parable that was missing just one thing.
Now if he had handed everything over to the poor and followed the Lord, he would still be rich. And richer too.
See Job.

Not sure about being "richer," but Jesus tailored his message to the man, like he always does.

...Iran. They got a little too big for their britches.

...Now the Persians can have returned to them what was stolen. Their identity.

It's a dog and pony show. Do not be deceived; both "sides" answer to the same satanic ruling elite. Every war is a bankers war; the love of money is the root...

It's not about what you see, it's what you don't see.
Nobody takes the time to listen and reflect.

true as

Religious liberty is a God given right and God has appointed the government to protect it. That isn't denominationalusm. Ask the Baptists.

"Religious liberty" is a phrase invented by men. God ordains righteous government - not the pretender we have accepted in its place.



But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1)

[doctrox said: The Constitution and the DoI are for those of the world.] I see. So Christians can ignore the bill of rights?

Again, "rights" is an invention of men - a contract, a piece of paper with signatures on it.

There is only one "right" mentioned in the Holy Bible: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Rev. 22:14)

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Part 2: Sharia-Free America: Why Political Islam & Sharia Law are Incompatible with The Constitution​

The salient statement is: "Why Political Islam & Sharia Law & The Constitution are Incompatible with the Holy Bible."

The Three Wise Men were Iranian...

Rather, we don't know the exact number of "wise men from the east", but they brought three different gifts.

 

[Brakelite]

Again, "rights" is an invention of men - a contract, a piece of paper with signatures on it.

You are playing word games. Religious liberty is a God given right. Free will is enshrined in creation. Even Lucifer himself who set up the original rebellion with nearly half the population of heaven, was given leave to self rule.... just not in heaven.
The right to choose who we worship is a biblical truth, reflected in your Declaration of Independence by men who were growing in their understanding as to what true liberty meant. And the separation of church and state was a direct result of that understanding. Notwithstanding the dishonest skewing of history that declares the Constitution as a bulwark against a government takeover of the church. Those Puritans that came to America from Europe weren't escaping a government dominated church, but a church dominated government, wherein throughout medieval Europe or the dark ages, it wasn't the government who was responsible for persecuting the church, but the church responsible for using the government as a weapon against heresy and those who refused to tow the party line...aka Catholic and/or church(Britain and Geneva eg) authority.
I have seen and read many Catholic apologists on this forum framing the dark ages as a time of a glorious golden age for the church and the various governments responsible for combating heresy in order to maintain order in the nation. What Catholicism doesn't admit to is he guilt in bribing, threatening, and causing other nations to wage war against anyone who refuses to commit to inquisitions and crusades and witch trials.
The prophetic record harmonises with the historical record.

“20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. ”
Daniel 7:20-21, 25 KJV

“4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. ”
Revelation 13:4-8 KJV

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It was Catholic persecution and Church of England persecution who both used the government/ crown to enforce religious laws. This is what is coming to America with the dissolution of the separation concept.