Should A Minister Charge For His Ministry?

[Helen]

But, I can assure you, if your husband spoke 5 times a week for three hours, and worked all week long, he could not prepare adequately for what he wanted to say

And we totally disagree again.
Except for staying before the Lord for an hour in prayer before a meeting to hear from Him what He wanted him to preach on...there is not need for this 'new fangled' study that goes on today. That is why most meetings are boring..we get so much of what the man thinks and studies, and little to none about what GOD wants to say.

And NO, I did say our meetings were three hours long...I did not say that my husband preached for three hours each time!! Heaven sakes!!
I said 'he spoke at every meeting' ...check the post.

A Pastor who does not get alone with GOD on his knees...not a loads of books...is in my opinion robbing the people blind.
That is what Moses did ..he got his message from God, not studying books and opinions.

 

[amadeus]

And we totally disagree again.
Except for staying before the Lord for an hour in prayer before a meeting to hear from Him what He wanted him to preach on...there is not need for this 'new fangled' study that goes on today. That is why most meetings are boring..we get so much of what the man thinks and studies, and little to none about what GOD wants to say.

And NO, I did say our meetings were three hours long...I did not say that my husband preached for three hours each time!! Heaven sakes!!
I said 'he spoke at every meeting' ...check the post.

A Pastor who does not get alone with GOD on his knees...not a loads of books...is in my opinion robbing the people blind.
That is what Moses did ..he got his message from God, not studying books and opinions.

Yes, your husband spent [spends] a lot of time in prayer and in the scripture but not with the idea or purpose of coming up with a message [sermon] for the next meeting. He was rather coming together with God because God already loved him and he was learning or had learned also to love God. Then when there was a time that God opened a door as in one of those meetings you attended, he rose up and opened his mouth and the Word of God flowed out of his mouth to feed the hungry.

We surely do not believe that the apostle Paul sat down and put together an outline with notes to be able to speak the message he decided to deliver to the people on his next visit to them. Rather he spent time with God allowing the Holy Spirit to bring to Life what he already had. In the case of Paul, he was scholar of the Old Testament as a Pharisee, but all of that information/knowledge was dead in him. The Holy Spirit in him brought it to Life and to his lips when it was God's time for it.

Praise God for those who are willing to be used as God wants to use them.

 

[emekrus]

If that is there profession then they should charge for their services.

'Profession' 'services'?

Sir, we are talking about God ministry gifts here...

 

[Stranger]

amadeus and ByGrace

Yall seem to believe that if one spends time studying the Scriptures or preparing a teaching or preaching lesson, that he is void of the Holy Spirits use. Nothing is farther from the truth. Of course one may be trusting his studies only, and be like a Pharisee, and not trusting or praying to God for his presentation, or have unconfessed sin in his life, all of which hinders the Holy Spirit's movement in what he has to say. In other words, you can know many things in the Bible but if the Holy Spirit is not in what you say, it is dead.

That doesn't negate the need to study the Scriptures and prepare what to say. It just means in your studies and preparation you are relying on God the Holy Spirit to help you and empower your presentation so that it ministers to those you are preaching to. Just as one can be a Pharisee, and his presentation be dead, so can one who claims to trust only the Holy Spirit be guilty of pride and his message dead also. I've heard em for years. They start out saying things like 'I don't know what I am going to say or where I am going with this till I get up here'. 'I just trust the Holy Spirit'. And what usually happens is no one else knows what you're saying and certainly don't know where you are going either. My point is that you have the abuse of the pulpit on both sides. Lack of studying the Scriptures or ignorance in what they say, does not equate with 'spirituality'.

Understand I am not talking about just standing up during a time of testimony and sharing to others what God has done and shown you in your life, and using the Scriptures to support it. I am talking about when one stands up to preach or teach the Word of God. One who does that must first have the Spiritual gift of teacher or pastor/teacher. And if one does not have a desire and drive to study the Bible, then I assure you they do not have the gift.

So, neither the Pharisee or the one who refuses to study the Scriptures, has any business teaching or preaching the Word of God. The man whom God has given the gift of teaching, who depends on God's help in his study of the Scriptures to open these up to him, whose walk is an example of a life abiding in Christ, that is the man you want teaching. The Holy Spirit will open up the Word to him. The Holy Spirit will flow from his teaching to those who are listening. And the more he studies, the more the Holy Spirit gives him understanding in His Word and the greater use He makes of him.

(Ezra 7:9-10) "...according to the good hand of his God upon him. For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments."

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

amadeus and ByGrace

Yall seem to believe that if one spends time studying the Scriptures or preparing a teaching or preaching lesson, that he is void of the Holy Spirits use. Nothing is farther from the truth. Of course one may be trusting his studies only, and be like a Pharisee, and not trusting or praying to God for his presentation, or have unconfessed sin in his life, all of which hinders the Holy Spirit's movement in what he has to say. In other words, you can know many things in the Bible but if the Holy Spirit is not in what you say, it is dead.

You have perhaps come to the wrong conclusion. The point is that in many places there are preachers or teachers who in spite of preparation have not talked to God about it and what they say while perhaps logical as man counts logical are as you say dead, because God was not really involved in the preparation or the delivery. When we speak about the scriptures without being led by the Holy Spirit how could we really be delivering the right message?

It is best to be prepared if we expect that God is going to use us. We should be prepared even if we have no reason to believe that He will use us. He will use what is available to accomplish His purpose.

That doesn't negate the need to study the Scriptures and prepare what to say. It just means in your studies and preparation you are relying on God the Holy Spirit to help you and empower your presentation so that it ministers to those you are preaching to. Just as one can be a Pharisee, and his presentation be dead, so can one who claims to trust only the Holy Spirit be guilty of pride and his message dead also. I've heard em for years. They start out saying things like 'I don't know what I am going to say or where I am going with this till I get up here'. 'I just trust the Holy Spirit'. And what usually happens is no one else knows what you're saying and certainly don't know where you are going either. My point is that you have the abuse of the pulpit on both sides. Lack of studying the Scriptures or ignorance in what they say, does not equate with 'spirituality'.

What you say is so, but please don't so quickly lump us all in the same leavened loaf. I too have heard the empty messages of some people speaking off the cuff, but I have heard messages just as bad or worse from people who had a carefully prepared set of notes. The very best messages are from persons who with or without a set of notes speak as they are led by the Holy Spirit. Also as a man of God really walks with God through prayer and study daily, should he not sometimes bypass his prepared message in favor of something God lays on his heart at the moment?

Some are in touch with God closely and know the written scripture intimately and when God calls them to speak the Word flows... without written notes.

Understand I am not talking about just standing up during a time of testimony and sharing to others what God has done and shown you in your life, and using the Scriptures to support it. I am talking about when one stands up to preach or teach the Word of God. One who does that must first have the Spiritual gift of teacher or pastor/teacher. And if one does not have a desire and drive to study the Bible, then I assure you they do not have the gift.

I don't disagree with this.

So, neither the Pharisee or the one who refuses to study the Scriptures, has any business teaching or preaching the Word of God. The man whom God has given the gift of teaching, who depends on God's help in his study of the Scriptures to open these up to him, whose walk is an example of a life abiding in Christ, that is the man you want teaching. The Holy Spirit will open up the Word to him. The Holy Spirit will flow from his teaching to those who are listening. And the more he studies, the more the Holy Spirit gives him understanding in His Word and the greater use He makes of him.

I don't disagree with this.

(Ezra 7:9-10) "...according to the good hand of his God upon him. For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments."

Stranger

Good!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

NO!

How much I owe you for that answer?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I did say she is renowned, which means she already has selling albums. She actually came to sing praise and worship at the funeral.

My question is, should the ministry gifts of God be professionalised and charged for?

Now let's see it this way, what was the essence of the charge? Does it make sense to charge someone in order to come and lead praises and worship to God?

Where did she come from?
What were her expenses?
The church must feel it to be important to pay her a million, and be able to pay her a million.
what is the church doing sitting on a million instead of having ministries to help the poor and underprivileged
I wouldn't blame the singer
If they want to give me a million, I'll sing for them too

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I cannot agree with you there.
When we had our church , we had meetings 3 hours long ( because the people would never want to leave) We had 5 meetings a week, because the people wanted them. ( It was like that in the 60's and 70's if anyone remembers)
My husband spoke at every meeting.. And he had his own full-time business as a builder. Started early and worked late..even Saturdays.

When he opened his bible to preach you could hear a pin drop.
He didn't used 'canned' messages, powerpoint , over heads, or any of the gimmicks they have now. He opened his bible and "God flowed out".

A friend in town here is a " full time" pastor ( whatever that is supposed to mean...is that any different than a full-time Christian?)

This friend of our hold One 1 hour meeting on a Sunday morning. And One 1 hour prayer and bible study ( which he gets out of a book)
And we have to believe that this is worthy of the pay check he gets each week!!
So...he visits the sick etc. So do full-time Christians.

And we wonder why the Church of today is so powerless and pathetic!!

And what are you saying?
We should be just like you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Just because they sing in church doesn't mean they are serving God with their music.
they are serving man with entertainment, and that costs money
I say if churches don't invest their money in God, then the world can charge whatever they want

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you remember why the Levites did not receive an inheritance in land like the other tribes of Israel?

"The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them." Deut 18:1-2

We don't have Levites today, in case you were wondering.

 

[Truth]

Now let's see it this way, what was the essence of the charge? Does it make sense to charge someone in order to come and lead praises and worship to God?

Where's the cash, I have been Praising God and Savior for years, so where's the cash, I will even drop the Interest of 2%. LOL! Come on this was a funeral, you are saying you last goodbye, maybe admonishing this Soul's Life!
I guess that we have gone backwards, they used to pay for Professional Mourners!
Let God Reward those how He Pleases!

 

[Stranger]

You have perhaps come to the wrong conclusion. The point is that in many places there are preachers or teachers who in spite of preparation have not talked to God about it and what they say while perhaps logical as man counts logical are as you say dead, because God was not really involved in the preparation or the delivery. When we speak about the scriptures without being led by the Holy Spirit how could we really be delivering the right message?

It is best to be prepared if we expect that God is going to use us. We should be prepared even if we have no reason to believe that He will use us. He will use what is available to accomplish His purpose.

What you say is so, but please don't so quickly lump us all in the same leavened loaf. I too have heard the empty messages of some people speaking off the cuff, but I have heard messages just as bad or worse from people who had a carefully prepared set of notes. The very best messages are from persons who with or without a set of notes speak as they are led by the Holy Spirit. Also as a man of God really walks with God through prayer and study daily, should he not sometimes bypass his prepared message in favor of something God lays on his heart at the moment?

Some are in touch with God closely and know the written scripture intimately and when God calls them to speak the Word flows... without written notes.


I don't disagree with this.


I don't disagree with this.

Good!

I agree that at times even though preparation is made for a sermon or text in the Scripture, the Holy Spirit can lead for His reasons into another direction. Most certainly can.

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

I see nothing at all wrong with charging well over their needs but, I do not see that as service to God...that should be free-and from your heart (their basic needs only)..."freely you have received, freely you give"
just my quarter (inflation @"ByGrace" )

 

[amadeus]

We don't have Levites today, in case you were wondering.

I think you knew that I knew that. My point was that when a person is called by God into His ministry, his guidelines are not the same as those who are not. That much of a type or shadow may be seen in the Levites as they were supposed to be in their time.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think you knew that I knew that. My point was that when a person is called by God into His ministry, his guidelines are not the same as those who are not. That much of a type or shadow may be seen in the Levites as they were supposed to be in their time.

Which they weren't.
With your great knowledge and spiritual insight, I want a better explanation.

 

[amadeus]

Which they weren't.
With your great knowledge and spiritual insight, I want a better explanation.

Do we all get everything that we want? Nonetheless I will try to fill in a few blanks hopefully without causing any additional unnecessary confusion

I don't know about my great knowledge. So often I read things or at least scan them on this forum that seem to be way over my head or foreign to me and I pass them by without a word.

As to my insight, if I have it at times, it is God at times who is giving it to me. This why I got in the habit long ago of giving Him the glory. Any errors are mine.

My reply, which you questioned, was to another person who never raised a question about it that I can see.

Very simply God has always had His order in everything. Men have seldom, according to what I can see, been in the best part of His order usually due to their own bad choices.

While the children of Israel were in Egypt all of the first born males died... except for those who put lamb's blood in the right places at their door. Those were for the most part [always?] Israelites. The angel of death passed over them [the first Passover] and thus spared the first born males of their families. God claimed the first born sons as His own but replaced them with the tribe of Levi [Numbers 3]. When He did that there was population difference as there were more first born sons in the other tribes of Israel than there were qualified Levites in the tribe of Levi. So the difference was paid in money per head of difference. They, [the Levites], were then His and from that time as we read the old testament we see that they always had definite jobs to do regarding the tabernacle in the wilderness as well as having a definite position or order when they camped or when they moved through the wilderness.

Out of the Levites also come all of the priests, the sons of Aaron, as well as the only ones properly allowed to move the Tabernacle and the Ark with all of their parts. [King David got into trouble over this when the Ark of the Covenant was being brought back to Jerusalem.] The Levites were divided into three groups according to the sons of Levi each having definite jobs. This was God's order for the natural Israelites. Probably most every function of those natural Levites was a type of shadow of the real order of God for His Church and the Bride today. Of course, probably not many are even searching to see what God's order in the Church really should be much less trying to get into it. Should anyone be concerned about not being in God's order or at least being in the right hand rather the left hand of God?

Likely you don't understand all of that, but that's OK as I don't understand it all either. I know that some others on this forum would be willing to fill in the details if you trust them to have it all right.

My point of course is that ministers called by God have a very definite place in His order as well. Some of them are certainly out of order and some of them probably don't concern themselves about it. Some have tried to graft themselves in where they do not belong.

The Levites messed up at times too. [See Judges chapters 17 & 18 for a good of example of a Levite out of order.]

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

thank you amad
you are quite honorable with your holy answer
I, talk differently
But I do not feel I dishonor God
I'm from the concrete jungle
Part of me is still there

I have long studied the Old Testament as I grew up with Jews and I was always curious
When someone talks about levitical law, a signal goes up inside of me
If they had quoted it as an analogy, the signal would go away

I jump the gun
I always do
sorry, help me overcome that when I should

 

[amadeus]

thank you amad
you are quite honorable with your holy answer
I, talk differently
But I do not feel I dishonor God
I'm from the concrete jungle
Part of me is still there

I have long studied the Old Testament as I grew up with Jews and I was always curious
When someone talks about levitical law, a signal goes up inside of me
If they had quoted it as an analogy, the signal would go away

I jump the gun
I always do
sorry, help me overcome that when I should

Sometimes people are working in God's order even if when asked about it they deny it because they don't know what is meant.

Some people need to understand the details of God's order because of their particular calling [what part they are in the Body of Christ] but others simply need to, and do, work in their calling very well without understanding the big picture. It's OK because God does understand the big picture. He will use those who have a willing heart and are in the right place at the time without regard to their particular place in man's society.

Our availability is often, or even usually, more important to God than our doctrines or our knowledge. We need to be ready to follow Him wherever He leads us. Sometimes we may find ourselves in seemingly very strange places indeed.

Give God the glory!

 

[Taken]

A few months ago, as we attended the funeral of my sister in law’s husband’s father, a renowned gospel musician was invited. She ministered gloriously. But a few weeks after the funeral, as I visited my sister in law and her husband, we got discussing about the funeral and the expenses…

As we chatted along, we talked about the gospel musician that was invited to the funeral. And my sister in law’s husband disclosed to me that the gospel musician actually charged over a million to come and minister.

Emeke Odili

This is a confusing introduction.

You clearly say a Gospel Musician was Invited.
My presumption would be;

That particular Musician, did not accept a simple Invitation, but rather accepted an agreement, for a specific amount, to be Hired to perform as a Musician.

YOUR details mention nothing about that person being Invited or Hired To Preach.

Your details mentioned this person did some preaching...but connects no invite or amount to be paid For preaching.

Per the rest of your post....most Churches are run like a business yoked with corrupt governments.

Agree, The Word of God does not come with a dollar demand....however Churches and the clergy are to be supported by cheerful givers who learn Gods Word From the clergy.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[aspen]

There are not too many topics that are this clear cut.

I agree with ByGrace

No.