Should Christians Celebrate Christmas?

[Buzzfruit]

Wow Buzz that's quite a claim, since you have been a christian you have never failed to show kindness, your right that is hard to believe.

I learnt a long time ago that if I am treated badly or disrespected not to take it out on others.....and I never have. I strive not to harbor ill will towards no one.....if if the person did me wrong. I don't allow negative thoughts about anyone or whatever circumstances because I know it is not good for me. It does not mean that I don't express anger over injustice or wrong done from time to time, but I don't make it a habit to harbor anger or dislike of a person.

But it’s strange to you because too many Christians do not make an effort to live as Jesus lived. They love to use the name Jesus and call Him Lord but they don't do what He expect of them. I am not the only one that I know that can say what I am saying.......I know of many others in the Church that I attend that can say what I am saying. The Bible tell us what is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.


Galatians 5:22-26 (ASV)
[sup]22 [/sup]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[sup]23 [/sup]meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.
[sup]24 [/sup]And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.
[sup]25 [/sup]If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk.
[sup]26 [/sup]Let us not become vainglorious, provoking one another, envying one another.





So its not impossible to do what I am talking about, because the Holy Spirit can give one the ability to express God's nature.....if we desire it. Christian or kingdom living has been preached in our Church for a long time, even though not as much as it use to be.

But don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I am now perfect, but I strive for perfection like Jesus said we should.






Matthew 5:48 (GW)
[sup]48 [/sup]That is why you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[jiggyfly]

. It does not mean that I don't express anger over injustice or wrong done from time to time, but I don't make it a habit to harbor anger or dislike of a person.

If you have ever done once it puts you in the same category my friend as those you judge as not expressing genuine kindness.

 

[Buzzfruit]

If you have ever done once it puts you in the same category my friend as those you judge as not expressing genuine kindness.

Expressing anger for injustice is not necessarily a sin......it all depends on how one responds. And it’s one thing to over react in anger once or twice for example, as oppose to having a habit of doing it and never change.

Jesus indirectly tells us that one can judge his brother after the individual first overcomes his or her own sin or fault. So the warning Jesus gave about not to judge was directed to the person who judges his brother about a sin, that he himself not only has the same sin but is even worse than his brother's sin. In the story the one doing the judging has a plank sticking out of his eye, but the one he was judging only had a twig or a straw in his eye.

Matthew 7:5 (KJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[justaname]

Celebrating Christmas to me is not celebrating a lie. I see it as a time of year for reflection (the final month) and what is better to remember than the birth of our risen Lord. Lets look at the facts about Christianity. No one alive, as a man or woman today, has even met Christ in the flesh. The books we learn from, sixty six comprising the bible and a few more for Catholics, we have no original copies of. Everything we base our spirituality on is faith based. It is understood that Christianity took a pagan holiday, put a Jesus stamp on it, and called it their own, but, it is ours none the less and Satan Claws is not going to steal it back from me. I usually have a tree with all the trimmings, a nativity with magi, presents and all the rest. And when the family comes to my house for dinner I read from the Holy Bible. Sometimes we even sing happy birthday Jesus. Does God frown on celebration? Should we always be adorn in sackcloth?

Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

Are you holier than I because you don't celebrate, or am I the more because I do? I think neither.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Celebrating Christmas to me is not celebrating a lie.

Christians have been promoting that Jesus was born on December 25 as far back as one can remember. And that part is a lie.

I see it as a time of year for reflection (the final month) and what is better to remember than the birth of our risen Lord. Lets look at the facts about Christianity. No one alive, as a man or woman today, has even met Christ in the flesh. The books we learn from, sixty six comprising the bible and a few more for Catholics, we have no original copies of. Everything we base our spirituality on is faith based. It is understood that Christianity took a pagan holiday, put a Jesus stamp on it, and called it their own, but, it is ours none the less and Satan Claws is not going to steal it back from me. I usually have a tree with all the trimmings, a nativity with magi, presents and all the rest. And when the family comes to my house for dinner I read from the Holy Bible. Sometimes we even sing happy birthday Jesus. Does God frown on celebration? Should we always be adorn in sackcloth?

Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

Are you holier than I because you don't celebrate, or am I the more because I do? I think neither.

So what does the tree and the decorations have to do with Jesus’ birth? And there are festivals mentioned in the Old Testament that were ordained by God and in them He reveals His plan of salvation for mankind. Why not celebrate those?

 

[justaname]

Can anyone truly at this point in time know what day Jesus was born. Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt He wasn't born on the 25th of December? It is because of the census that most believe it wasn't in December. We simply don't know we can only speculate.
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there was a decree from Caesar Agustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

Should we then gather from the text that North American indians, or First Nation People, also were taxed? What about the Chinese, or South Africans, did they also get taxed?

As for the other festivals, I was born under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.
As for the tree, it has nothing to do with the birth, but it provides a great place to put presents.
Honestly, tradition is why we (my family) keep the tree. I don't care what other people attribute the tree costume to. My God and I know what I attribute the tree to.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Can anyone truly at this point in time know what day Jesus was born. Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt He wasn't born on the 25th of December? It is because of the census that most believe it wasn't in December. We simply don't know we can only speculate

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there was a decree from Caesar Agustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

That statement cause me to question if you study the Bible......regularly. Do you know that in December in that part of the world it is cold, even back then and that shepherd did not tend their flocks in the winter months? And they never collected taxes at the end of the year back then under the Roman occupation.....it was closer to the wormer part of the year.

As for the other festivals, I was born under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.
As for the tree, it has nothing to do with the birth, but it provides a great place to put presents.
Honestly, tradition is why we (my family) keep the tree. I don't care what other people attribute the tree costume to. My God and I know what I attribute the tree to.

There is far more meaning in those Old Testament Festivals than Christmas and will never know until you pay attention to them. In fact, not studying them is the main reason why so many Christians believe some of the false belief they have. So it may be part of the Old Covenant but most of what it points to is yet to be fulfilled.

 

[justaname]

I understand the accepted view of the cold no census, but when a king decrees by God's Authority action occurs, in His perfect time. Fact is we only know a census was called. As for the shepherds, was the temperature recorded verifiably? We can base things on most likely, but when speaking about God and His story should we really do that? Does God usually do things how we do them, or how we think it should have been done? I live in Michigan, and have had some warm Decembers. Judea is actually further south. Not to say I believe it was in December our Lord was born, only to admit I don't know when He was born.

As for the Old Testament festivals, they are insightful.
I celebrate New Testament holidays, like Christmas and Easter. The fact of the season I celebrate these times of reflection, prove God is not forcing that I celebrate on the exact day of birth or resurrection. For me to remember Messiah two times a year with the rest of the world, is a blessing, and nothing less.

 

[Buzzfruit]

I understand the accepted view of the cold no census, but when a king decrees by God's Authority action occurs, in His perfect time. Fact is we only know a census was called. As for the shepherds, was the temperature recorded verifiably? We can base things on most likely, but when speaking about God and His story should we really do that? Does God usually do things how we do them, or how we think it should have been done? I live in Michigan, and have had some warm Decembers. Judea is actually further south. Not to say I believe it was in December our Lord was born, only to admit I don't know when He was born.

Let me answer that question by posting this.

At the "time" of Jesus birth the Roman government, under Caesar Augustus, declared a TAX on all the world.
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in
those days, that there went out
a decree from Caesar Augustus,
that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:2 (And this taxing was
first made when Cyrenius was
governor of Syria.)
Luke 2:3 And all went to be
taxed, every one into his own
city.

Friends, reason with me for a moment. Imagine you are the Caesar of Rome, and want to collect a tax from your subjects. When would you do this? First ask yourself what kind of work do most of your people do? In Jesus time most people were farmers, or herdsmen. These people did not have modern aids to farming such as tractors: combines, threshing machines, or, refrigeration so everything had to be done by hand, and that requires a great deal of time and people.
When do you tax farmers, and herdsmen? Do you tax them in the spring when they have no crop, and are planting? Do you tax them in the middle of winter after they have killed their animals: sold the meat, and spent the money, or do you tax them at harvest time, just before slaughter when they would have fat animals and abundant crops. The answer is obvious. You tax them at harvest time.
Next the nation of Israel was commanded by God to do a certain thing: They were commanded to appear in Jerusalem, before God, three times in every year.
The first time all men of Jerusalem were to appear before God was at the feast of unleavened bread: We call this feast of unleavened bread: "The Passover."
Exo 34:18 The feast of unleavened
bread shalt thou keep. Seven
days thou shalt eat unleavened
bread, as I commanded thee, in
the time of the month Abib: for
in the month Abib thou camest
out from Egypt.
The next two times occur at the feast of weeks, (Pentecost) and at the feast of "ingathering, or "booths" at the end of the main wheat harvest.
Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe
the feast of weeks, of the
firstfruits of wheat harvest,
and the feast of ingathering at
the year's end.
Exo 34:23 Three times in the year
shall all your menchildren
appear before the Lord GOD, the
God of Israel.
As we have already discussed the best time to tax a farmer/herdsmen is at harvest time, and after the cattle fattening in the fall. Now consider If Israel was going to gather in Jerusalem at that time of year anyway, wouldn't it be foolish for Rome to command another later gathering, when the weather would be much colder, and adverse to travel, and at a time of year when "LESS" tax could be collected?

http://graceheart.stormloader.com/timeing.htm

I have learnt a long time ago that it is human nature to try to protect and defend whatever we believe in and love, even if its wrong. And at the same time we will putdown or make simple and unimportant what is good and right if it conflicts with what we love and believe in. There is a scripture that says, the carnal mind is evil and desperately wicked, who can know it?

As for the Old Testament festivals, they are insightful.
I celebrate New Testament holidays, like Christmas and Easter. The fact of the season I celebrate these times of reflection, prove God is not forcing that I celebrate on the exact day of birth or resurrection. For me to remember Messiah two times a year with the rest of the world, is a blessing, and nothing less.

Easter like Christmas came from the pagans. The Passover however is entirely a different thing. You think God feels honered because the world celebrates Christmas and Easter? Do you think God is impressed by outward show of devotion?

 

[Angelina]

You know...people will stop listening to you if you keep yelling at them like that Buzzfruit...It's just darn

rude!!! :huh:

 

[Buzzfruit]

You know...people will stop listening to you if you keep yelling at them like that Buzzfruit...It's just darn

rude!!! :huh:

If I was any calmer I would be dead. So don’t assume that big print means yelling.

 

[Angelina]

well your definitely not dead...but this thread may be....

 

[Buzzfruit]

well your definitely not dead...but this thread may be....

OK....

 

[FHII]

Wow Buzz that's quite a claim, since you have been a christian you have never failed to show kindness, your right that is hard to believe.

This may sound strange coming from me, but I support Buzzfruit on this. Buzzfruit said:

"I make a habited of striving to allow the goodness of God comes out 24/7 and 365 days of the year. And so, yes, I do. That may be hard for you to believe but it is the truth. It all have to do with ones attitude and their way of thinking. Unfortunately too many Christians have a bad attitude about what they go through and take their disappointment and frustrations out on others, and thereby set a poor example."



Well, I have had run ins with Buzz often. I've questioned whether or not he has "been holy" all the time, and doubted he has. And I still do. I believe Buzzfruit has failed at his mission of to be Godly 24/7/365. But I don't doubt he hasn't strived to do that. He can try all he wants, But he ain't going to do it. Neither am I, and neither are you.

But... He tries. And I believe without knowing him, he probably does a better job than 99% of the people out there. Me? I don't even try. Now the goodness that is in me, I let it go through.... The only thing I wonder about Buzzfruit is whether he thinks his good deeds mean anything. On earth, I think they do. Spiritually, they are still filthy rags..... But I'd rather live next to his filthy rags than Jeffrey Dahmer's. And I haven't seen anything about Buzzfruit that suggests he doesn't name the name of Christ, and credit him, other than him mentioning, "Yea.... I strive to be a good person!"

Chances are I'll clash with Buzzfruit again about certain issues. However, he's proven to me that he follows the Bible and what God has said. For now, I believe he's a sincere man when he says, "I strive to be good". I do too.... Don't you?






I

You know...people will stop listening to you if you keep yelling at them like that Buzzfruit...It's just darn

rude!!! :huh:

Well, that's true.... Ok. Buzzfruit, quit being so rude! And quit yelling at people over the internet. Isiaiah wouldn't have done that, would he? He just would've wondered around naked for three years and said, "This is how you look to God!" Jesus wouldn't have been rude either.... He would've just made a whip or something.... And lets not talk about how Jehu would've gotten attention.

No. No... IT's true. People won't listen to you if you are rude.... But sometimes the folks in the Bible were more than just blunt.

 

[Angelina]

There are over 4000 members in this community FHI. If we all decided to act that way there wouldn't be a CyB in existence.
Think about that before you begin measuring me up against Isaiah, Jehu or Jesus.
This is a forum that has a community and rules, moderators and an Admin...
Blessings!!!

 

[FHII]

I wouldn't dream of measuering you up against Isaiah, Jehu or Jesus. You are not in their league, but you are in a league of your own. That is not a threat, nor a slight against you, but a truth. Isaiah and Jehu don't have what you have. Jesus did, but he didn't reveal it at the time.

4000 members? So what? Do you think that really scares m? It didn't scare any of the prophets, and their messages were not very popular.

Who is the CyB? Don't really care. The Bible says what it says.... If they got a problem with that, so what?

I agree... A forum has rules and stuff.... Have I or Buzzfruit broken any?

CyB... Moderators.....Rules and Adminisrators.... I haven't read anything I've wrote nor Buzz has wrote that breaks any of their rules. But if they enforce rules against what the Bible says, I will break them. Yet, I don't see them doing that.


Blessings returned!

 

[justaname]

[font="'Courier New"]When God uses time to remember Jesus, His great name is exulted. Be it on Friday 11-11-11, or Saturday 11-12-11 or Easter, or Christmas.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Outward show of devotion?[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Abraham and Isaac.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Noah.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Jesus' death on the cross.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]How many times did people rent their clothes?[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Fasting.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Sacrificial system.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]Daniel and his accusers.[/font]
[font="'Courier New"]I mean I could put so many books, chapters, and verses it would be silly.[/font]

Now to be sure, Christmas is the celebration of the Lords birth, not that He was actually born on that day. Easter is the celebration of the death, burial, and resurrection.
The celebration of passover is the celebration marking the beginning of deliverance of the nation Israel.
Christmas is the celebration marking the beginning of deliverance of mankind. Call me bias, I like Christmas better.

 

[Angelina]

FHI you are obviously whiffing your own ego at the moment...as you have missed my point entirely...

Hi justaname!

Thank you for bringing this thread back on track...if it cannot stay on track...it will be locked

Blessings!!!

 

[FHII]

FHI you are obviously whiffing your own ego at the moment...as you have missed my point entirely...

Hi justaname!

Thank you for bringing this thread back on track...if it cannot stay on track...it will be locked

Blessings!!!

Ok. Then, Angelina... I'm only whiffing my ego? I don't even know how to whiff... What is that? I am "whiffing"? Ok... fine. I get it. I'm doing something with my ego and I don't think you think its good. Fine.

But I won't celebrate Christmas. It's not Christ's Birthday. If you don't want to believe its not a lie, fine. It's not Christ's birthday, and it is set on a pagan holiday, and it was Christianized, and I don't like it nor accept it as a Christian holiday. So excuse me for believing the Truth. And telling it. I have an ego just because I believe the truth?

SMH....

 

[Duckybill]

Christmas is Satanic! If Jeremiah 10 is true.

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (KJV)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.