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Featured Should I Start Wearing a Facemask and Gloves?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by historyb, Jul 23, 2020.

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  1. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    The first virus discovered was Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV) by Martinus Beijerinck.7 He took a diseased tobacco plant, ground it up, placed the liquid through a filter, and was able to infect another tobacco plant using the filtrate. Beijerinck coined the term virus, which means venom in Latin. The point is that viruses are so small that they easily pass through microscopic holes we can’t even see. The largest virus to date is the Pithovirus sibericum, which is ~1.5 µm in length by 500 nm in diameter.8 So the largest virus might get caught by a standard filter, but almost all other viruses range in size from as small as 20 nm up to 450 nm—meaning most pass through the lab filter size of 0.22 µm.9 This is significant since the smallest holes on average for a surgical mask is 16.9 µm.10 Even the largest of viruses could fit through the holes in a surgical mask, so, in a previous article, I said there was no data suggesting the use of surgical masks was warranted.

    Change of Face?.
    But then a bombshell of a paper was published on April 3, 2020, looking at the efficiency of surgical masks to prevent transmission of the common cold, the flu, and COVID-19.11 Experiments were set up with people confirmed having each of these three viruses and tested the ability of the subjects to transmit the virus through the surgical mask. The authors of the scientific publication found that surgical masks were actually extremely effective at preventing transmission of these viruses. The authors went on to explain that surgical masks are probably capturing the respiratory droplets in our breath that are teeming with viruses. So the respiratory droplets never leave the inside of the mask and go on to infect the next person. With that data now available, I have changed my mind about surgical masks.

    Recently, the CDC came out and said that everyone should be wearing a face mask (homemade or purchased surgical mask) when going out in public. Some say there was pressure on the CDC to make that statement,12 but it turns out to be the right thing to do. Technically, this study did not measure the ability of COVID-19 in the air to enter through the surgical mask and infect someone. However, I think it stands to reason that if the surgical mask blocks virus from escaping an infected individual that it will work in just the opposite way (and protect you).

    I now recommend a home-made face covering of some kind. I largely recommend that we should try to help the global demand for surgical masks by reserving them only for those that are high risk13 and medical professionals.

    And there’s one more thing you can do. When I was in graduate school, I had the same professor for both Microbial Pathogenesis and Cellular Microbiology. He is a world-leading expert on the anthrax toxin and is married to a medical doctor. He shared with us about one of his practices in which he would stop breathing in an elevator if someone sneezed or coughed (i.e., hold his breath). While socially awkward, it makes perfect sense from an infectious disease perspective. I have been holding my breath when at the grocery store and I’m within six feet of someone to prevent contracting COVID-19.

    Should I Start Wearing a Facemask and Gloves?
     
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  2. pompadour

    pompadour Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    That's what I suspected all along ( logical ) works for both in-hail and ex-hail. also why it's more contagious in the winter ( dryer air )
    The problem with masks, in my opinion is the lower oxygen level under the mask. I saw a video that some one was testing the oxygen level under the masks. tested 3 different masks. out side air was 17 to 19 percent oxygen. under the masks was 7 to 9 percent oxygen.

    My wife starts to feel light headed after about 5 min. with the mask on. I start breathing heavy. I don't wear it or pull it under my nose.
     
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  3. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    I can't wear the cloth mask at all. I got one when this all started in march and it made my asthma act up after I had got over bronchitis (which was the worst time to get bronchitis) so my wife ordered the surgical ones which I can breathe in but I don't wear on the way to Church and I can breathe good in a N95 mask (we had one that I used)
     
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  4. pompadour

    pompadour Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    My wife made some fabric masks for family and friends. never had a N95 to try.
     
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  5. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Masks are now mandatory in parts of Victoria, Australia, there are some exceptions though, including this.
    IMG_20200724_132707.jpg
     
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  6. Scoot

    Scoot Well-Known Member

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    I've been doing that for decades myself. :) (Holding my breath in elevators if someone coughs or sneezes, and when I pass people in grocery isles). The common cold would knock me around as hard as some people get the flu, so I've always been very cautious about any sorts of viruses and do my best to avoid them.

    The effectiveness of masks I'm a little more skeptical about. I'm sure that surgical masks do some good (otherwise they wouldn't need to wear them - they are for the patients benefit after all), but home made masks made out of any material to me could be more ineffective, or have the opposite approach of being too restrictive, (as already mentioned with CO2 buildup). This has the potential to cause CO2 headaches (I'm a diver - I know all about CO2 headaches :( ), or potentially worse conditions. I'm not saying don't use them - just that there may be more things to consider than a professional mask and be very aware of your body. Faint / dizziness / elevated heart rate / shortness of breath / dull headache coming on. If anyone experiences any of these whilst wearing a home made mask - please take it off.

    As for masks protecting the wearer - I'm not sure it's as effective. I suspect it may offer some protection to the wearer, but a small fraction of what it offers everyone else. When breathing in, I suspect we're not breathing in completely through the mask material - much is coming through gaps to the side (differences in pressure). Even more so for home masks that offer more air resistance / restricted air flow through the cloth. (Gas will take various pathways - but favours the path of least resistance). If there are any airborne viruses present - they have more potential to come in through the multiple pathways that occur when breathing in that aren't directly through the material. Medical mask as I understand it has primarily being about protecting patients.

    I have no doubt that the narrative will change (if it hasn't already) to masks protect us - but I suspect mostly because of inconsiderate people. We already see a lot of people who don't care about the spread of virus if they believe it won't hurt them, with little to no regard for others who could be at risk. Parties are still occurring here in Vic, and now we're seeing announcements that medical experts fear that we're going to start losing young people to this virus as well. The skeptic in me says that nothing has changed from the previous few months - except that young people are a large cause of virus spread and they want to get young people more concerned in an effort to stop the virus. It wouldn't be the first time authorities lie with the thought 'the ends justify the means'.

    Gloves on the other hand are almost pointless unless you understand cross contamination and how to avoid it. They're about looks - giving an impression that they're healthy but at the end of the day - as I understand it - they offer no more protection than washing your hands. It's about what you do with your hands that's the effective part. (Maybe different if you wear gloves in a shop and after it's cross contaminated you then take them off and dispose of them).

    As for the question as to whether I should wear it or not - One thought I'm considering at the moment is Paul - who because all things to all people, as well as not to cause offense and be able to reach them. I'm not worried about this mask thing too much at present - but if it will cause other people who are so fearful at the moment to be a little more at peace - I'm wondering whether or not I should consider wearing it whilst in the supermarket - just to put others first so to speak. I know that's only one aspect, and there's a lot more variables involved - so I'm very interested in seeing different thoughts on this subject.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    My wife did the same. She made several dozen easily washable masks and gives them to family friends and anyone who wants them. She has a lot more trouble wearing them than I do because of multiple lung problems. My worst complaint is the heat multiplication when it is already quite hot outside. Usually we simply avoid going outside as much as possible. God is helping us.
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Did you take careful notice of footnote 11? Here it is:
    1. Nancy H. L. Leung, Daniel K. W. Chu, Eunice Y. C. Shiu, Kwok-Hung Chan, et al. “Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks,”Nature Medicine (April 3, 2020), https://doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0843-2
    This research paper apparently did not even test for COVID-19. Here are the viruses they detected: "...Infections by at least one respiratory virus were confirmed by reverse transcription PCR (RT–PCR) in 123 of 246 (50%) participants. Of these 123 participants, 111 (90%) were infected by human (seasonal) coronavirus (n = 17), influenza virus (n = 43) or rhinovirus (n = 54)..."

    So we have a whole bunch of CHINESE RESEARCHERS telling the Western *barbarians* (gweilo) to wear masks! I'm not sure whether they did their research in China or the USA. But it does not matter. China has its agents in all the universities and government agencies, and China has been spreading DISINFORMATION, MISINFORMATION, AND PLAIN LIES since December, 2019. This could well be a part of their propaganda.

    So along comes an American doctor and say everyone should wear masks. But earlier this year it was already made clear that only N95 masks used by medical personnel are effective against viruses. Plus Fauci himself said at one time (not too long ago), wear a mask if you are infected. But now everyone is jumping on the mask bandwagon, and guess who is going to reap the profits? China.

    Furthermore, Lancet -- supposedly a respected medical journal -- published a bogus article on HCQ (to attack it) and then retracted it. Nature (another scientific journal) published very questionable information on Remdesivir to try to boost this treatment. The Imperial College -- which started this whole mess -- knew that their computer models were very faulty, but failed to correct them, and then allowed their researcher to publish faulty information which predicted MILLIONS OF DEATHS.

    What we have now is the corruption of the medical profession to serve the interests of China and other commercial entities. Nothing can be taken at face value. In fact what was badly needed was a TOTALLY INDEPENDENT COMMISSION to investigate EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE.
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Whether that is true or not . . . just the same, it seems self evident to me, that viruses are carried in respiratory droplets, and a mask will block a great many of those droplets, going both directions. I don't expect a home-made, or non-N95 mask to fully block everything, but to me it's a numbers thing. I distance, wear a mask, neither are 100%, but they are both better then 0%. Or so it seems to me.

    Much love!
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There have been flu pandemics regularly but no one was wearing masks. Herd immunity was an important part of facing these pandemics. But this time herd immunity was ignored almost universally, because there was A HIDDEN AGENDA.

    "How Do You Achieve Herd Immunity?
    There are two ways this can happen.

    You can develop resistance naturally. When your body is exposed to a virus or bacteria, it makes antibodies to fight off the infection. When you recover, your body keeps these antibodies. Your body will defend against another infection. This is what stopped the Zika virus outbreak in Brazil. Two years after the outbreak began, 63% of the population had had exposure to the virus. Researchers think the community reached the right level for herd immunity."

    The other way is vaccines. There is no vaccine for COVID-19, and even if there was one flu vaccines are good only about 40% of the time. Plus vaccines can actually cause serious illness or even death.

    Sweden did not have any lock downs, but the media are trying to paint Sweden in a negative light because it does not suit their fear-mongering agenda. According to Business Insider (April 20,2020)
    Sweden had 15,322 confirmed cases and 1,765 deaths. The death rate is properly counted as deaths per 100,000 of the population. Sweden's population in 2019 was 10,036,391. (Somewhat more in 2020 which would reduce the death rate further)

    That is 17.6 deaths per 100,000. For the USA the death rate for flu is about 15/100,000. It was not possible to find a similar statistic for Sweden, but it could very well be similar. IOW even without lock downs the COVID-19 death rate for Sweden is slightly more than for flu. But almost all the media are skewing the results and creating a very negative image of Sweden knowingly.
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know about the agendas, it's not so hidden to those who are used to seeing this.

    Reaching herd immunity works far differently with asymptomatic tranmission than it does when viral shedding occurs only in the symptomatic stages.

    It's one thing to say, just let it rip, but grandma can't keep the sick people out of her home, because no one knows whether they have the virus and are contagious. Vulnerable people aren't able to do what they normally do.

    I understand about the moving goalposts and all on the societal controls, just the same, it remains that someone can have it and not know it, and still be contagious. So rather than being able to exclude the sick, like you can with cold and flu, your effort to isolate will match your desire to be safe.

    They safer from infection you want to be, the more you will take the same pains you would around a symptomatic flu sufferer, except, you have to assume that anyone, meaning everyone, is shedding the virus, whether it looks like it or not.

    And it turns out that getting this disease can lead to extremely difficult outcomes, including death, and lifelong disability.

    So, I take certain precautions.

    Much love!
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    As of right now, this is only what we all hope, but there is no evidence that antibodies will give lasting immunity.
     
  13. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I seen some mask that wouldn't help nothing at all, one you could see the persons nose and mouth through. People don't wear them right either, they were them under the nose, to small, etc and they won't help. It is going to be bad here in the US for far longer because we refuse to come together and work together like the greatest generation did. To many think me, me, me instead of the words JOY - Jesus First, others send, and yourself last. The only homemade mask that would work as good is one that can accept a filter which places them up there with surgical mask.
     
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  14. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    I posted this article because frankly I am sick and tried of both sides. Conservative think they know everything even though they are not Doctors or Scientist but like all of us just have opinions and Liberals can't tell the truth to save their life. I want resources about this that are not biased to much, don't have an agenda, and is Christian centered and it can be from Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox sources. I am so sick of each side saying this or that. This thing has become political and both sides are very guilt of that, who gives a bleep about help their fellow man or coming together to defeat a common enemy we must have our own way!
     
  15. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    This is funny. The deaf person needs not to wear a face mask for communication.
    Many deaf people communicate by reading lips of hearing persons.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  16. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    There are clear mask for those with hearing impairment.
     
  17. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    But they are useless for them. They need others to wear them so that they can lip read at least. But then if the masks are clear so that people can see the face behind the mask, then how are they going to work?
     
  18. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    It is a mask, it will work like any other mask. Amazon.com : clear face mask
     
  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Short Answer: NO.

    I expected you to be one of those who would see through this blatant ploy to control the population from "on high" (and I don't mean drones).
    The only masks worth using (and that too only if you are actually infected as Fauci was willing to say not too long ago) are the N95 masks. But CDC and others have told the general public to leave those for medical personnel and first responders. Furthermore, for healthy individuals, at least one doctor has said that masks are DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HEALTH. Perhaps there are many other doctors who would concur.

    But what Christians should understand is that they are an attack on your mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being. The subliminal message from *on high* is "Now we are in control of your every breathing moment".
     
  20. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Checked out your link. The data available did not give any performance data as to the effectiveness of the masks shown with respect to the transfer of diseases nor whether the masks restricted the breathing of the wearer with respect to other protective masks.
     
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