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Featured Should I Start Wearing a Facemask and Gloves?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by historyb, Jul 23, 2020.

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  1. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Same as any mask. Masks are not to protect you but to protect others when you wear it. The point is there is no reason not to wear a mask save for respiratory problems
     
  2. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    doctors and hospital workers us face mask for what before this panic-demic? wasn't it to protect the patient from their germs? that's all its proven good for and made for.

    if you feel the need do so, God bless you, but this mandatory stuff is a false sense of security.
     
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  3. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "dead doctors don't lie"
     
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  4. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    That was always my understanding anyway. I have a few reasons not to wear a mask but I only need one and that is my God given right to choose what to do, where to go, what to wear, etc...

    If it was a virus that was killing healthy people then perhaps it would be worth it but as it stands we are dealing with the seasonal flu/cold that kills old sick people

    Giving into their mandate to wear a mask means that I replace the authority of God with the fear that they want us to have. I ain't afraid to breathe the air that God gives me. I refuse to be afraid of humans, as if theyre a walking biohazard threat...

    That same argument spills or to the vaccine. We must all take it to protect others... Forget about historyb snap out of it. Their preventing natural herd immunity in order to force vaccine herd immunity. I thought u knew all this...
     
  5. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    The virus can kill well people too. The mask is not for you it is for other people and their health and yes you have freedom. We are not to murder others and not wearing a mask can amount to that. Are you ready to take on the guilt that you caused others to suffer or die, regardless what you think.
     
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  6. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a small percentage

    So im a murderer now... Why make such a false and rude accusation? Using such antagonizing language now. Why? Do u think its a good way of convincing someone? You changed your mind and was a self proclaimed "murderer" just a few days ago.
    Now instead of using reason and understanding your trying to pass judgement and persecute those who stood by you...
    Not impressed... Hold on a sec while Christ helps me pull this knife out of my back...

    By your definition we are all murderers including yourself for not ever wearing a mask in the past, especially when you were sick all those times and passed the cold onto someone who passed it onto someone who passed it onto someone who passed it onto an old person that died... Your just such a criminal mate that instead of showing remorse chooses to condemn others... Your the righteous judge now... Good on u
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as a person with a good strong immune system, in spite of my age [76], I can be and have been a carrier of various things to my wife who is on the opposite extreme. I have learned to be very cautious for her sake as well as for other vulnerable people.

    They still say I am vulnerable because of my age, but she has a severely compromised immune system. She stays in as much as possible, but I would not be happy if she were to 'catch' something like this from someone who carelessly and selfishly refused to wear a mask for their own comfort considering her as an old, sick person who was ready to die anyway. I guess after 48 years of marriage I am a bit selfish in that respect also. we've had two deaths of people close to us in the past week. One of them was attributed to Covid19. My wife spoke of deaths sometimes coming in threes. I don't worry about the superstition part of it, but I still don't want her to be number three because someone's unnecessary foolishness.

    I have to pray and ask God to help me forgive selfish people. Jesus was our example living as Paul described it here:

    "Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." Phil 2:3

    Can we do that? Can we even try to do that or is everyone claiming to be Christlike more concerned with themselves and their legal rights than for anyone else? Help us all dear Lord!
     
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  8. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Do u fear death? My dad is 75 and my mum is 70 and i've never seen them in this state ever before in my life...
    None of us have been to mass in 4 and a half months and its having an effect on their faith. For the first time ever i see them fear death, i see them question God and replace His authority with that of the state...

    Its like they don't really believe in eternal life. They taught me that God gives life and takes it... When the day comes that our Lord calls upon my parents, i will not be bitter or have resentment towards God? Who are we to question God and His plan? Who are we to ask Him to change His plan?

    Your afraid of your wife dying. Do u not believe in eternal life? That u will be reunited under God? Will fear dictate your final years?
    I fear pain and suffering but not death. Fear is a manifestation of evil just like hate and i try to avoid it at all costs and trust in God. He is the only one i fear

    To me it's very disconcerting to see how easily cognitive dissonance took hold of them and the church... Man has been worshiping God on the sabbath since the dawn of time. How many times have churches locked down in 10,000 years??? Never... When time were tough is when we should turn to Christ, He is our saviour not some stupid syringe full of toxins, God chooses when we go to Him.

    We weren't unable to attend the burial oif my cousin who killed himself cos only 10 people were allowed at the graveyard. We we'ren't allowed to visit mum for mothers day, celebrate birthdays, go fishing, go for a swim. Im being called a MURDERER FOR NOT WEARING A MASK WHILE OUTSIDE ALONE IN A PARK.... Forget about it. When people are going to make such false and personal accusations it only serves for me to be even more apathetic... When i see experts being censored and loosing their jobs for voicing a differing opinion i say NAA... This is not the Soviet Union, something is wrong

    Meanwhile the damage done by all this scare mongering far out weighs any covid cold/flu, the true cost will only be known years from now
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  9. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't fear death. But, yes I am concerned about my wife, but we are not afraid. Should I not be concerned at all because there is a promise of never ending life? Our time here has a purpose in God's plan. That purpose is Not for us to protest if we don't receive our legal rights under secular law.

    I agree with many of your concerns and those of others, but I also see the selfishness not just of you in particular but especially among young people in general, including my own son, who speak of lost rights... People have been losing their rights in our country from its beginning. [Perhaps the same thing is true in yours?] Native American and black Americans and Mexican Americans and other minority groups have come up short on their rights from day one here. Natural born Americans of Japanese descent were placed in concentration camps without due process during WWII. Abraham Lincoln, perhaps the most popular of all US Presidents suspended the right to due process during our Civil War.

    Lots of lost rights from the onset of the nation, but when and where is the emphasis protested by enough people to be heard? When a group that can be heard is large enough to get away with it and when it is hitting them where it hurts them personally. Their right to run around maskless is apparently greater than the right of sickly old people to live in the safest possible environment for what time remains to them. They have lived the best part of their lives already. That was what Hitler tried to do in Nazi Germany. He did it secretly because he feared the lash back of his own people. Are people today less secretive about it than Hitler? Why... because now people care less about the older generation than the Nazis did?

    Are you a medical expert who can say definitely that there is no danger to the sickly old people as result of 'seemingly' well people not wearing masks? Your reasons are very personal and selfish even if your legal rights really have been violated. People who are in a better position to know the truth of the danger may well be lying, but which one or which group are you going to believe? You choose to not believe the ones who cite a real danger. Is there any personal bias included in that choice?

    Are you really concerned about the damage to the economy now and in the future? Nothing done now is going to change that. The damage, based on truth or based on lies, is done. I don't think anyone disagrees that it was not handled very well. The question now might be, What is the best way to end this whole thing with the virus and the economy for now and for later? Do you know that holding fast on to every right you have or believe that you have under law is a part of that best way?

    None of us are medical experts knowing what is the best thing to do with regard to the virus. Wearing a mask does not hurt most people other than their convenience, comfort or pride. Their rights are an added extras, one way or the other.

    Is not wearing a mask a way to show God we trust Him? Or is it, on the other hand, tempting God? When Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake he simply shook it off and was not harmed, but he did not tempt God. If he had purposely exposed himself to a poisonous snake presuming that God would never let him die that way, that would be tempting God. Is that difference than saying if we wear masks we are not trusting God? How many of those who say that also never go to medical doctors when they are sick or injured, but rather pray and on the elders of the Church to pray for them as the scripture says?

    No you don't live in the Soviet Union so keep your rights, which I suppose you will if you can even if it means taking a stand close to where Hitler stood with regard the right of older folks to live beyond the end of their functional usefulness to the society. But... I would be very slow to say that that is being like Jesus...
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  10. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that? no. There is the problem with every one even me we take something and make something it is not at all. Your not using any reason here at all accusing me of things I never said nor implied. What you and all of us should do is ask for clarification to see where the person's thought process is not jump to unwarranted conclusions. No wonder there is so much hatred and animosity here and else where because we all, including me, what to jump to conclusions without finding out what the person meant.

    So here is what I meant. All of us need to wear a mask for other people not just ourselves and we need to stop being selfish and act like it is a matter of life and death and our freedom is at stake. In Texas a lady had Covid and went to work (she is a hairdresser) she wore a mask as did everyone. No one got Covid from her because of the mask. Just say you have Covid because you can have it without knowing it, and because it is very contagious and it passes on in our saliva which comes out when we speak and can be breathed in (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-breathing-talking-enough-spread-airborne and here is other on the other side COVID-19 may spread through breathing and talking — but we don't know how much | Live Science) and someone who has problems catches it and dies are we ready to carry that guilt. Yes it is akin to murder which the Bible forbid and I am not accusing anyone of being a murderer so please no hyperbole.

    We as Christians should want to help others first, put others before ourselves and that means sometimes doing things we don't want to. Some can't wear a mask and most can and the most should. WWJD. Would Christ fight and say this or that about the virus or would He show His love and do what was necessary. Now if the virus was all a ploy by Satan to trick us into doing something He would come against it but if it wasn't and He was here He would do what was necessary.

    There are blood on the hands of both sides. The Liberals saying go out and party, Fauci saying there is no problem and no need for a mask then reversing what he said. On our side for giving into wacky ideas and theories. This thing should have never been political it should have only been a health issue. As it is there are so many lies circulating about this it is impossible whom to believe. For me and my house we will mask up everyone else do you and @Cristo Rei I was not trying to insult you and apologize if you thought I did my friend
     
  11. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but that is wrong, i could say that your opinion to sacrifice everyones lives is subjective given your age bracket but it's a cheap cop out.
    My opinions are coming from experts who have nuanced opinions. Many of these experts (and this is the killer) are being censored, doxed, are being threatened to keep silent, are having their medical qualifications revoked simply for giving a different medical opinion. That isn't science thats Stalinism...

    In Australia suicides have been forecasted to rise by up to 50% due to these lockdown measures, that's 1,500 souls a year. They say that trend is set to last for another 5 years, that's 7,500 souls. The average age of these people is 44.5 which makes suicide the leading cause of potential life...

    [​IMG]

    We see that over 100,000 years of potential life is lost per year through suicides, far greater than that of influenza/pneumonia
    So 50% of that gives us an extra 50,000 years of potential lives lost due to covid restrictions

    And there is another fact that rarely gets cited in this issue. In Australia there are over 65,000 suicide attempts a year, over 3,000 of them are successful. That means there are over 8 people killing themselves every day here and for every death there are over 21 failed attempts, that's over 178 people trying to end their lives every day as it was. Add 50% to all of that... I would hate to crunch the figures in America cos i think it would bring a tear to my eye...

    And that is only one part of it, the overall damage from these lockdowns will be far more catastrophic than covid and suicides combined

    But no one cares about those deaths or any others, only covid deaths matter now. Its got people like my parents afraid to breath the air that God gives us, wearing masks while driving the car, while exercising in the park, gripped by fear of the omnipresence of covid and its omnipotence.

    Meanwhile instead of breathing in 20.5% oxygen they are breathing in less than 17% as well as breathing in their own humid Co2, compromising their own health. All on mixed information that is unsubstantiated by many experts. So the notion that i am somehow selfish, a murderer, a sinner, unclean or less righteous for not wearing a mask everywhere while im not sick is absurd and does nothing to persuade people. I know cos our state leader accused us of being murderers for playing golf...

    This is nothing but a Marxist takeover, silencing any experts who dissent and i aint buying it
     
  12. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    No probs, point taken... Our state premier accused people of being murderers for playing golf, dishing out fines to people all alone in the park while allowing BLM protests to go ahead.

    U say not wearing a mask is akin to murder, this is hyperbole of the highest magnitude that matches our premiers accusation of us being murderers for playing golf. Im not buying it, im not buying any of this fake pandemic

    U know what the state coroner told us about my cousin that committed suicide?? He told us that Daniel died without covid...
    Nuff said here. Peace
     
  13. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You are hung up it seems on what men say. That is also your choice. I really don't trust any of the experts as I don't know them any more than the politicians... including the ones upon whom you base your conclusions who are also men who may or may not know God. I simply trust God. I am sorry you disagree, but I won't argue the point with you any further... Simply consider these verses prayfully:

    "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

    I know that I am also a man!
     
  14. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Our daughter called a little while ago and was talking about our grandsons first day of kindergarten. She voiced concern over not being able to go in with him or have an open house with the teacher. As our conversation developed she brought up a pastor recently who refused to put on a mask and how when being told he had to put the mask on, he acted like a child. She was commenting on how people were saying good for him and for him to keep fighting. The left right now has an opinion about the law being wrong and says since the law is wrong they don’t have to observe trump or anything the law says. Hear the mask are useless and maybe they are, but how is it any different in despising governments and rioting lawless? Responding to your post because I wanted your opinion. Would Jesus Christ have put on a mask? My first thought was ‘no’ as he didn’t wash his hands. But then would Jesus Christ wear no seat belt neither? I’m struggling because pastors having to be forced while demanding they are right in the mask don’t work ...how is that any different from the left rebelling at whatever they disagree with and don’t want to do...operating without laws? Is no mask wearing a statement of what is right, or a statement of pride?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  15. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    He is to put it politely a moron.
     
  16. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    If I may be permitted yes Jesus would wear a mask. Jesus did not wash his hands because it was ritual purification, I am sure that if his hands were dirty from working he would wash them. The point was the ritual purification not cleanliness. God was concerned about cleanliness by seeing the foods that were forbidden because back then they did not have the refrigeration we have now and the knowledge we have now about germs and sickness caused from them but God did and so the foods were forbidden. God even gave rules for the highly contagious leprosy and the social distancing the Ancient Israelite's had to do. Hope this helps. :)
     
  17. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Jesus would have worn a mask if it were mandated by secular law unless it went against his Father's will. That is the answer I see. If it were only recommended, I would seek God's answer for me. Will His answer for one always be precisely the same answer for everyone? I would be surprised if it were.

    "Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
    Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." John 21:21-22

    Remember Ecclesiastics chapter 3: There is a time, that is a correct time, for everything, but a blind man needs someone tell him what time it is. Without the leading of the Holy Spirit, we are blind, everyone of us.

    Sometimes God may tell us to do things counter to man's law and then of course we need to obey Him. Other wise we should be obeying the laws to which we are subject. Should we ever be subject to man's law? Perhaps the question should be, Have we ever subjected ourselves to man's law? In almost every case unless we have always been completely lawless [Is there such a critter?], the answer would be, yes.

    If the answer is, yes, why should we change now if God has not directed us to do so? Who is hearing His voice? His sheep certainly, so then are we His sheep or not? Some people who claim to be believers may turn out to be goats instead of sheep.

    If a person is looking for a black and white answer that always applies they should put themselves perhaps under the sharply defined law as it was given to Moses. We, now, are to be led by the Spirit. That means to be a sheep always recognizing His voice and obeying Him in the moment of each decision. Some people, it seems, have already decided beforehand what their decision is... instead of waiting on the Lord. They may say that yesterday the answer to this question was, yes, so then today I will say, yes, in answer to the same question without consulting with God again... God never changes, but we do and our situations do. We are blind without Him yet even believers so often plunge forward without His direction. They follow their own head or their favorite party or politician or preacher...Is any one of them always equal to God? Who should be our Head? Are we part of the Body of Christ or some other body?

    If you have read all of that I have written on this post, it may seem complicated, but how complicated is it to hear His voice and obey?

    "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

    "To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
    And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:3-4

    Are we His sheep? Are we His sons? Who are we following? Who is leading us?

    "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14
     
  18. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    If it is the law to do so, then you should wear a mask.

    1 Peter 2:13
    "For the Lord’s sake, submit to all human authority—whether the king as head of state, or the officials he has appointed. For the king has sent them to punish those who do wrong and to honor those who do right. It is God’s will that your honorable lives should silence those ignorant people who make foolish accusations against you. For you are free, yet you are God’s slaves, so don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do evil. Respect everyone, and love the family of believers. Fear God, and respect the king."
     
  19. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life John 3:16

    I see the generation that were my teachers now quivering with fear over death...
    They have lived long lives in a world that has never been so fruitful.
    Now they are so afraid of the covid cold and death that they have seemingly given up on God.
    They don't seem to believe in eternal life or they would be longing for it instead of being fearful of it.

    There are worse things than death such as a life of poverty and misery which so many people will need to endure now because of this
    I don't know anyone with covid but everyone i know has been hurt by the lockdowns so im astonished to see the lack of empathy from our elders towards the rest of society and the selfish nature in which everyone is expected to risk their own health for their sake . Reducing our oxygen intake by wearing masks everywhere for the rest of our lives and risking vaccine side effects are some of the inhumane demands being made on us under the false guise of "saving lives"

    In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will Ephesians 1:11
    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers Romans 8:29


    If Christ was here he would be ripping off the social distancing stickers, masks and all the other rubbish.
    We are destined by God, it is He who will take us...

    But how quickly everyone drops their beliefs and conforms to communism is alarming.
    Does anyone remember why we shut down to begin with...
    Does anyone care that more people are dying of suicide (average age 44) than from covid (average age over 80)
    Does anyone care that dissenting experts disappear like its the Soviet Union
    No one remembers, no one cares, instead they blindly follow Satan in a crippling state of fear hoping that their saviour, the vaccine, will come soon

    The death of a 20 year old has a potential loss of live of 60 years...
    The death of an 80 year old has the potential loss of life of 0 years...

    The world has never quarantined the healthy and the Church has never locked down yet fear has brought a level of cognitive dissonance never seen before.
    Fear is a tool of Satan. He is using fear through oppression of people like myself and obsession of people that are so afraid...
     
  20. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    @historyb seeing you have changed your position on masks and are not in the danger age bracket i was wondering a few things.

    - Do u think covid is more serious now than u did before?
    - If we're forced to wear masks everywhere we go for the rest of our lives would u be ok with that?
    - Your ok with mandating masks to protect the community, so then would you be ok also with vaccinating people against their will or blackmailing them to get vaccinated to protect our community?
     
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