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Featured Should I Start Wearing a Facemask and Gloves?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by historyb, Jul 23, 2020.

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  1. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    And your not... Need i remind you that it is men who are ordering u to wear masks.
    I look at facts, reports, studies, data and truths from various sources, not just the mainstream.

    And the people you base your conclusions on, do they know God? Not a chance.

    If u trusted God then u wouldn't be so spooked on covid...
    If u trusted God then u wouldn't be walking around with a mask and demanding that everyone else wears masks
    If u trusted God then u wouldn't be so afraid of death and would welcome eternal life in heaven with God
    If u trusted God then u wouldn't be so concerned about your wife

    Simply trusting God means to put you and your wifes life in His hands
    Simply trusting God means to have no fear of disease and death
    Simply trusting God means to trust in eternal life

    I sometimes i feel like i don't have enough faith. Now, after seeing the behaviour of my parents and their friends this year along with the orders of our local bishop, i can't help but wonder, if they don't really believe eternal life is true then is it all false... Is it just something that man has made up to makes us all feel better about death...

    Maybe there really is no eternal life and no God, that would explain their sudden change of faith... All i know is that they've taken up this new norm of fear without question, in a flash, God was left behind and replaced by fear...
    Its not God that leads us with fear... Fear is the tool of the evil one
     
  2. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Been wanting to ask you about authority but wanted to make sure my husband was okay with sharing our conflict and differences in opinion. Since day one to wear a mask or to not wear a mask out in public, it has unleashed quite a few arguments in our home. A battle of wills maybe? I say wear one and my husband says mostly the same as, it is true our rights and liberties are being taken away and they are wanting to control and insight fear. So many times we have went out where I’m wearing a mask to go in the store and he is not. Although he says everyone has a right to do what they feel is right to them...it is actually ridiculous when we don’t wear mask at home for either of us to wear one in public. So I tell him it has been decided that we shouldn’t wear mask. if the head of a home has decided and feels strongly this is a fear breeding thing used by the government to control people and take away their rights...how can God then say to observe a mandate yet that mandate conflict with what the head of a home says. Which do you observe the government or the head of a home? Because I am so confused...
     
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  3. Pisteuo

    Pisteuo Well-Known Member

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    A house divided....

    Good call VIJ (IMO)
     
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  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well, no reason that you are aware of maybe anyway
     
  5. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry to hear that. It reminds me of quite a few people i know that have had family arguments about one thing or another related to covid.
    In my opinion the family comes before the government.
     
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  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You either failed to read or to understand what I wrote. We must be in different worlds.
    Carry on...
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    A difficult call for your home. I am not certain I can help but I will try.

    First my situation:

    My wife and I both wear masks when we are out close to people. We are fully agreeable on that. At home it is only the two of us and no one, but one daughter an RN who works as a surgical nurse in the hospital, visits us these days. She is also for us a medical advisor for the present situation. She does not decide for us but advises and answers questions based on her own specialized knowledge.

    The head of the house conflict is something I haven't come up against for many years, because a great many years ago my wife and I came up with a division of labor in which I decide certain things and she decides certain things. Anything not as per usual we discuss and decide together. Perfect? No, but it has been many years since we disagreed to the point where it approached anger or any similar result lasting for more than at worst a heated few moments.

    Below is what Paul wrote:

    "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
    Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
    Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Eph 5:23-25

    If both of you are fully committed to God and agree without hesitation with Paul's words, consider then this...

    As a wife you are as the church is in that you are an unfinished work... so you must try to subject yourself completely to your perfect error free husband. Ah... but your husband, although he may be striving to be a very godly Christlike man, I would be surprised to hear either you or him say he is a perfect error free husband. I would be surprised to encounter such a husband. Jesus as the groom may indeed be perfect and error free, but what man of flesh is? I certainly am not!

    Since there is room for improvement in both of you, there is some slack [both incomplete and imperfect] there. The slack can be helpful or it can cause more trouble. The two of you really do want to be One in this thing, but if you simply disagree, how wrong would it be for you to decide one way while he decides another? How much trouble could or would it cause between you? Unless it really caused a serious ongoing division [as you mention it has at least approached], I don't believe God would not be against it either. But...

    For your husband: He needs to remember the part where Paul says: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" . This means that even though he might want to insist on making the final decision, how willing should he be to bend for the one he loves?

    For the two of you to manifest your disagreement in front of others when you go out with one wearing and the other not wearing a mask is not good. The best course would be that you both do the same thing [both wearing or both not wearing] how ever hard that might be...

    I am not sure if this helped, remembering that every person and couple is different. Talk to each other and talk to God about it. Don't let this thing cause a rift between you. I will keep the two of you in prayer.
     
  8. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    This was the post i responded to

    You are hung up it seems on what men say. That is also your choice. I really don't trust any of the experts as I don't know them any more than the politicians... including the ones upon whom you base your conclusions who are also men who may or may not know God. I simply trust God. I am sorry you disagree, but I won't argue the point with you any further... Simply consider these verses prayfully:

    "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

    I know that I am also a man!


    First i alluded to the fact that we're both basing conclusions on what men are saying. I bring up this point cos u say that im hung up on what men say when your also getting your info from men as well.

    The rest was my confusion at your claim that u simply trust God.
    Maybe I lost my way cos i was thinking about my parents and letting out my frustration at how easily they have replaced God with fear...

    So if i misunderstood then please help me understand... Is it to just simply trust authority? Does God literally speak to u? My idea of trusting in God must be very different to yours so if u could elaborate that may be helpful for me in understanding why my parents have changed so much. This could help me in easing the anxiety, fear and stress that they are carrying
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  9. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I simply talk with God and read my Bible these days. Your idea of trusting God does seem to be different than mine. I won't say yours is wrong, but I believe that mine is right. Is it possible that according to God we are both right? I believe so... but I won't get into that here and cause more dissension or confusion or misunderstanding.

    On what I do read from others here regarding God and His Way, I must trust Him to help me sift through those differences which we both may see as people post them, if we have the time and energy to read even a fraction of them. I don't. My primary connection with people and what is going on in this world of men is right here on this forum. I stopped attending any church more than year before anyone ever heard of Covid-19 for reasons not involved in present questions.

    Then shifting gears to focus on the political conflicts mixed with medical ideas, where does it leave us... or more to the point, where does it leave me and mine? I cannot keep up for me and mine much less all the rest of the billions of people. I don't have the time or the expertise to sift through these things like I try to do with the things regarding God. I guess that you can do that and make your 'informed choices' and I am glad you are able to be comfortable in that. I hope that Australia has better choices for the unbelievers than we have in America. I hope the answers which people have there are better and easier to understand than the answers I see here. I would really be surprised if you said that they were.

    To wear a mask or not? To take an offered cure or not? To listen to someone with the apparent correct credentials [M.D., PhD, etc.] or not? I can't make all of these choices by studying and deciding, even assuming the facts were available to sort out. How would I know what are really facts or what is someone's propaganda or someone's misunderstanding? What news source is never wrong intentionally or accidentally or for some other reason? People here seem to have their own favorites for different reasons.

    I cannot sift through it all and I know that there are people out there less able than I am to understand all of these things. Makes it easier to understand how medieval Europe was able to keep so many people in serfdom for so long.

    I decided a very long time ago that the only one to always trust is God. We. my wife and I, are using medical doctors still because we started doing that before we even began to understand how mixed up and unreliable even many of the so-called experts has been for a very long time. We follow the advice of our own doctors as we always have simply asking a few questions of them and following their advice... but this is all beyond us and really, probably them as well [though they might not admit it]. We grew up without computers and Internet. We learned some good things... and some wrong things and our whole picture of the world, planet Earth and men's societies was definitely not to easily be seen. God has helped us survive in spite of all of that. God and His Son, Jesus, are the only answers we have found to always be always right because we need no other go-betweens to explain it all to us. God, Himself, is our Interpreter, if we are listening... if we are paying attention. Most people do have go-betweens between themselves and God also... Help them and us dear Lord!

    Maybe there is a smidgen of truth out here in this mess, but if God doesn't unravel it for me it doesn't get unraveled. My wife is less able than I am to unravel it and I am extremely naive when it comes to much in the secular depending on my wife to help me understand some of it. How is that for walking through this mire? Should I believe you or one these on this forum who oppose you? Why? Each of you will point us to other experts who can explain it all clearly? Really? A few minutes ago I finished listening to the video you posted earlier on a new thread where a doctor with 8000 patients in Florida had of the necessary answers to our Covid-19 troubles. She sounded good and sincere, but much of what she said I did not understand, not being versed in the benefits of zinc and some of the other things she mentioned. Perhaps she is honest. I hope so. We cannot know although perhaps you can...
    Not me!


    Do you now have a clue why I am not jumping on anyone's bandwagon too soon here?
     
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  10. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    I and my wife are both in the danger area. I have diabetes, a bit over weight, chronic cellulitis, cerebral palsy, asthma, chronic bronchitis. My wife suffers asthma, chronic migraines ( which the Doctor haven't figured out why) plus she is my care taker. So yeah we are very much in the danger zone.

    It is just as serious than lessens which each passing month (Italian Doctors found it weakens but now Doctors and researchers have found that when it gets in the body it strengths and gets worse). What I am absolutely sick of is the politicization from both sides of this thing from our side all the stupid conspiracy theory that the other side wants to do this or that and from the other side hating on regular folk and hating Trump and anything decent. What we need is people concerned for others and health on both sides instead of all of us (including me) being so fracking selfish

    That is silly and irrational, it didn't happen in 1918-19 and in fact life went back to normal in 1920 if not more than normal. That is the kind of politicization that no one needs right now and our side should show the liberals that we are better than them and not get in the weeds like they do and refuse to.

    No and no. People in 1918-19 wore mask voluntarily because they cared ow they affected others and even had their fur babies wear mask

    [​IMG]

    but in my state California (yes the left coast, yuck I want to move to Texas or South Dakota which is deeply red) when the Governor at the time decided in his infinite stupidity to make mask wearing mandatory the poop hit the fan and he had to rescind it but people still wore mask because they didn't want to spread it if they had it. It was mask, better sanitary practices, and distancing that helped get rid of it even though it is still around. We had an outbreak in the US under Obama and that is when instant hand sanitizer popped up everywhere and as a tutor I had to stay a few feet away from the student. I am glad the Swine flu/Spanish flu didn't get real bad here back then only in Minnesota for some reason.

    People especially Christians more so should always look out for others first but I wasn't doing that, I was worrying about myself and this thing or that because I looked for boogeyman under every rock along with the conspiracy theory, I gave up my Christian responsibility because I worried more about my freedom than other people. Sure we should be concerned about what the Government does and our freedoms but never at the expense at helping someone else or being concerned about others well being.

    I hope I was not insulting or mean in what I said, these are my thoughts. Have I changed my thoughts on this? Yes for now. Because I got sick of this side saying one thing and that side saying another. This is what I have decided for my household. I don't want to lose my best friend and wife because of selfishness and I don't want anyone else to either because of my fleshy selfishness instead of Christian charity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  11. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I can't complain with any of that. I apologize if i came across hostile.

    I was guilty of making an assumption that you had the same strict view as my parents. Im just worried about them but my hands are tied, i don't want to get into any arguments with them and i don't want them to see that im worried about them.

    Just to touch on a few of your points... I don't want to get into definitions of what "trusting God" means either.
    Im most likely wrong. Maybe it can mean different things to different people.

    So much information and so little time. One of the biggest things that makes me skeptical is the censoring, sacking, doxing, shaming of experts with differing opinions... This is unseen in the west.

    But should u trust me... No. Im not telling anyone to do anything. U can choose to wear a mask, get tested or take the vaccine. Im only standing up for the right to choose what happens to my body, im standing up against being forced what to wear, were to go, who i can visit, when i can leave my home and work and every other freedom that i had 5 months ago.

    There is a good chance those freedoms will never return, that this is now the "new normal" and i don't like it one bit. Its all causing fear, division and distrust in each other

    But taking the advice of your family doctor is certainly the best thing to do especially if they've been your doctor for a long time. My parents have had the same doctor for over 40years, i wonder if they've spoken to him about it...

    Anyway, i thought u were on the bandwagon trying to push masks and needles, my bad.
     
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  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    For me for many years now God has been the most important thing in my life. This Covid-19 thing has not changed that.

    The personal attacks I frequently witness on this kind of thread is why I rarely involve myself in them. Sometimes I will scan through them to see the viewpoints presented.

    In the past when I was working I was an expert in my area, but I've been retired so many years [20 this coming Nov.] I am no longer an expert at anything. Even if I were knowledgeable about a thing, this thing of discrediting others and calling them names is not something I like to see anywhere, much less on a Christian forum.

    If everyone were honest or if at least we could trust most news reports the whole thing would be easier to make judgments. People purposely, I believe, muddy the waters so they can better sell their own bill of goods, really making little or no effort to assure that elderly people, who less likely to understand anyway, will be confused not get on the side of what is right. In the world I seldom know which of two sides is the best unless one is clearly on the Lord's side. That is a rare occurrence. People will claim to be on the Lord's side when really they are on their own side for money or glory or for whatever else they want.


    I hear you loud and clear on this freedom thing. As a white anglo saxon [missing only the P of W.A.S.P.] growing up I had all of the advantages except lots of money... but even at that we always had food on the table. Unlike my mother I never went barefoot because we could not afford to buy shoes. I had more freedom growing up and I understand that, but it does not impact me as much as younger people because I don't want to go many places anyway. Most of the time I am quite happy just staying home. There are exceptions, but they are few. So my perspective is different, but I try to understand the younger generation. I used to go everywhere. Now younger people who would like to... cannot.


    I strongly believe that what you say here is true. It is never likely to go back to very close to what it was. I try not be selfish about it, because it is not that important to me, but I really would like to see my children and their children unlocked...

    Family doctors may not have all of the answers, but if person trusts his doctor, he is a good one to ask questions.
    No, I don't push people to go against their convictions, but if given a reasonable opening I might try to get them see why I am where I am. However, I don't like to argue. Some people seem to enjoy it for its own sake.
     
  13. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    I trust the family doctor of my parents and im going to ask them if they've asked him about covid when i visit them next.

    It does get heated thats for sure...

    Ye, i don't claim to know exactly what is happening, best case scenario i could be wrong and the world really is looking out for our health.
    Worse case scenario is frightening cos these new type of vaccines, mRNA, work by modifying our DNA.

    Na im sorry but that is false... Your a leading expert on life mate.
     
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  14. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Yea ok, fair enough. I think the asthma/bronchitis is something that won't go well with covid

    Ye the politicizing is bad. What ticks me off the most is this suppression and censorship

    Hey am i seeing things or do those 1918 cats have face masks on??? They sure look funny...:D

    Ah don't be silly, your alright. The first thing i thought when i realized you had changed your mind is that it takes honesty to do that.
    I think most people (not me I hope) pick a side and defend it till the death hoping they are on the good side
     
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  15. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Never heard it put that way. It helps.

    Never thought of it this way. Also a great help and wisdom. Now see what you mean by it isn’t the same for everyone but as the Lord leads. Also see what one feels about what the Lord says about those that govern, whether we agree or disagree, it could begin at home.

    You’ve helped greatly. More than you know. Thank you for prayers.
     
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  16. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your kind reply! May God richly bless you and yours as you walk through this mess with Him!
     
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  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    When a government is doing evil and doing harm instead of good, then the head of the home must decide what is right. When the government demands masking AND AT THE SAME TIME sabotages the effective treatment for this virus, then something is seriously wrong. Also the masks in general use are a joke since they do not prevent viral transmission.

    There are certain individuals within the government who have made public policy on the basis of their own selfish ambitions and greed, and have actually contributed to deaths by their irresponsible actions and directives. But they have not be taken to task and fired for their criminal conspiracy. Instead they have been encouraged to continue with their disinformation and misinformation. And no one is looking out for the good of the general public.

    Similarly, when the Antichrist (in the future) demands that everyone under his reign must be *branded* in order to live, then those who refuse must also be willing to pay the price (which is far less than the price of obedience to the Antichrist). What we are seeing today is a precursor to the reign of the Antichrist.
     
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  18. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    That's what I do too. But I keep wondering when/if they will start cracking down on how we wear them.
     
  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Agree about the head of a home.

    But concerning governments ‘is doing harm instead of good’ He said governments are a terror unto evil works.

    1 Peter 2:12-23 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. [13] Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; [14] Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. [15] For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: [16] As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. [17] Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. [18] Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. [19] For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. [20] For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. [21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: [23] Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

    ‘Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; [14] Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.’ Sounds much like Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; [14] Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well‘ ... ‘as unto them sent by him for the punishment of evil doers, and for the Lords sake ‘the praise of them that do well’ so ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

    Who is the ‘sent by him’?

    Romans 3:15-19 Their feet are swift to shed blood: [16] Destruction and misery are in their ways: [17] And the way of peace have they not known: [18] There is no fear of God before their eyes. (But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    So you disagree with ‘not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.’ This no longer applies? But now it is only to the good and gentle?

    For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: [23] Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
     
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    What I am saying is that there will be times when Christians must choose to oppose evil governments. Right now the governor of California is trying to shut down Christian churches. Should they meekly submit to this tyranny or should they not oppose it? Should they obey God rather than men?

    The whole Pandemic Conspiracy was to destroy economies as well as civil liberties, and it has actually succeeded. The evil Democratic governors have gone after churches, and AT THE SAME TIME said that violent protesters are free to keep on with their anarchy and steal, kill, and destroy.
     
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