Should Intelligent Design Be Taught as an Alternative to Evolution?
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Jerusalem Junkie
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- Jan 7, 2008
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(setfree;44318)
When has science observed something evolving from nothing?
Thats just it SetFree it cannot. Science can only observe what it can see nature being the starting point anything before that is guessing...hypothesis they call it.
When has science observed something evolving from nothing?
Thats just it SetFree it cannot. Science can only observe what it can see nature being the starting point anything before that is guessing...hypothesis they call it.
- Feb 24, 2008
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No you gave more theories and opinions, no hard facts
Dont demand hard facts when you base your beliefs around faith. That is contradictory.I provided various theories of physics which are based on hard math. Math you cannot refute unless you understand the math and have a PHD in physics, which I am betting you do not.I have also used logic to display why the "something comes from nothing" approach if flawed, both scientifically speaking and logically speaking.
We are all part of God, but not in the way you would like us to explain it.
Elaborate please.
Not at all, you are trying to limit God with your flawed perspective.
I have a creeping suspicion you werent aware of monism or non-dualism until I brought it up in this thread, so assuming that you arent aware of either philosophy, how would you know that my perspective is flawed?And assuming you are aware of the various philosophical theories (my apologies), then please elaborate on how Christian theology is monotheistic and not monistic or non-dualist.
Hold on this is mans limited understanding and not Gods view of infinity. Man makes up these stupid limits to make himself feel superior, once again proving God right.
What?I am not claiming anything about any God being superior or inferior. I am claiming that we communicate through langauge, terms and words in languages have definitions, and those definitions do not change on whim unless society by-large starts to use the word in a different way.The definition of infinity, per the rules of the english language, means no boundaries. Something with no boundaries exists everywhere, as everything. There is nothing that isnt it, since it is infinite.If you do not like these "limits" of language, then please stop using language to communicate with me. Perhaps you can regress to tribal clicks and pops.
Nope wrong again. You still show your lack of understanding of God. If you have truly studied the Gods of Hinduism and the Greek philosophers then you will realize they were far too human to be infinate.
Again, you demonstrate the habit or arguing against something you arent familiar with. Could a three year old provide a cohesive argument against string theory? Could a physicist who has never picked up a brush teach a class on painting?The answer is no.I didnt state "Hindu mythology" or "Greek mythology". I stated "Hindu philosphy" and "Greek philosophy". What the populace practiced (henotheism/polytheism) and what the philosophers believed were two very different things.How much Plato and Aristotle have you read? Have you read the Upanishads?If you havent, you are in no position to argue against them.
HOW? You are imposing alot of opinions without basis here. You really need to approach God from His perspective and stop trying to limit Him with yours.
They have basis in logic, science, math, and philosophy.Your opinions have basis in faith, and faith has no basis in reality, that is why it is called faith.The Greek populace had faith in Zeus, the Hindus in Ganesh, the Muslims in Allah, the Jews in Yaweh, the Christians in Jesus, the Zoroastrians in Ahura Mazda.In the end, all faiths are equal. And there is nothing wrong with faith. But it is not subsitute for science, logic, or math.
Dont demand hard facts when you base your beliefs around faith. That is contradictory.I provided various theories of physics which are based on hard math. Math you cannot refute unless you understand the math and have a PHD in physics, which I am betting you do not.I have also used logic to display why the "something comes from nothing" approach if flawed, both scientifically speaking and logically speaking.
We are all part of God, but not in the way you would like us to explain it.
Elaborate please.
Not at all, you are trying to limit God with your flawed perspective.
I have a creeping suspicion you werent aware of monism or non-dualism until I brought it up in this thread, so assuming that you arent aware of either philosophy, how would you know that my perspective is flawed?And assuming you are aware of the various philosophical theories (my apologies), then please elaborate on how Christian theology is monotheistic and not monistic or non-dualist.
Hold on this is mans limited understanding and not Gods view of infinity. Man makes up these stupid limits to make himself feel superior, once again proving God right.
What?I am not claiming anything about any God being superior or inferior. I am claiming that we communicate through langauge, terms and words in languages have definitions, and those definitions do not change on whim unless society by-large starts to use the word in a different way.The definition of infinity, per the rules of the english language, means no boundaries. Something with no boundaries exists everywhere, as everything. There is nothing that isnt it, since it is infinite.If you do not like these "limits" of language, then please stop using language to communicate with me. Perhaps you can regress to tribal clicks and pops.
Nope wrong again. You still show your lack of understanding of God. If you have truly studied the Gods of Hinduism and the Greek philosophers then you will realize they were far too human to be infinate.
Again, you demonstrate the habit or arguing against something you arent familiar with. Could a three year old provide a cohesive argument against string theory? Could a physicist who has never picked up a brush teach a class on painting?The answer is no.I didnt state "Hindu mythology" or "Greek mythology". I stated "Hindu philosphy" and "Greek philosophy". What the populace practiced (henotheism/polytheism) and what the philosophers believed were two very different things.How much Plato and Aristotle have you read? Have you read the Upanishads?If you havent, you are in no position to argue against them.
HOW? You are imposing alot of opinions without basis here. You really need to approach God from His perspective and stop trying to limit Him with yours.
They have basis in logic, science, math, and philosophy.Your opinions have basis in faith, and faith has no basis in reality, that is why it is called faith.The Greek populace had faith in Zeus, the Hindus in Ganesh, the Muslims in Allah, the Jews in Yaweh, the Christians in Jesus, the Zoroastrians in Ahura Mazda.In the end, all faiths are equal. And there is nothing wrong with faith. But it is not subsitute for science, logic, or math.
- Feb 24, 2008
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(setfree;44318)
When has science observed something evolving from nothing?
When has science observed complex organisms and entire solar systems "popping" into existence?Never. And it never will, because it is impossible.Its fine if you do not believe in evolution, but please do not insist that ID is a plausible alternative, because it is not. The honest position would be to take is "I dont know".
When has science observed something evolving from nothing?
When has science observed complex organisms and entire solar systems "popping" into existence?Never. And it never will, because it is impossible.Its fine if you do not believe in evolution, but please do not insist that ID is a plausible alternative, because it is not. The honest position would be to take is "I dont know".
- Feb 24, 2008
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(Two;44317)
Where do these people come from? G-d is infinite in order to maintain a universe an infinite being cannot be finite that would mean that G-d created then said to heck with it I am done but he did not. And you made my point we are from G-d created from G-ds plan as an overall part of his grand scheme.Agian science can only explain what is observable in nature anything beyond that is guessing.Where did this stuff come from out of the blue? It had to have a starting point to exist. Are these things infinite or finite? Will they last forever or just be a fad and fade into eternity. The universe had to have a starting point in Genesis it starts "In the beginning" do we consider that finite or infinite? Or do we accept it as a leap of faith?
You just keep repeating yourself, ignoring everything that I state.
Where do these people come from? G-d is infinite in order to maintain a universe an infinite being cannot be finite that would mean that G-d created then said to heck with it I am done but he did not. And you made my point we are from G-d created from G-ds plan as an overall part of his grand scheme.Agian science can only explain what is observable in nature anything beyond that is guessing.Where did this stuff come from out of the blue? It had to have a starting point to exist. Are these things infinite or finite? Will they last forever or just be a fad and fade into eternity. The universe had to have a starting point in Genesis it starts "In the beginning" do we consider that finite or infinite? Or do we accept it as a leap of faith?
You just keep repeating yourself, ignoring everything that I state.
(adren@line;44321)
When has science observed complex organisms and entire solar systems "popping" into existence?Never. And it never will, because it is impossible.Its fine if you do not believe in evolution, but please do not insist that ID is a plausible alternative, because it is not. The honest position would be to take is "I dont know".
You might not know, but in my heart I know! Your right Creation is not an alternate to evolution..Creation was first! So evolution will have to take a back seat to it!
When has science observed complex organisms and entire solar systems "popping" into existence?Never. And it never will, because it is impossible.Its fine if you do not believe in evolution, but please do not insist that ID is a plausible alternative, because it is not. The honest position would be to take is "I dont know".
You might not know, but in my heart I know! Your right Creation is not an alternate to evolution..Creation was first! So evolution will have to take a back seat to it!
- Feb 24, 2008
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(setfree;44324)
You might not know, but in my heart I know! Your right Creation is not an alternate to evolution..Creation was first! So evolution will have to take a back seat to it!
And you are entitled to your opinion. But back to the OP, ID should not be taught alongside evolution.
You might not know, but in my heart I know! Your right Creation is not an alternate to evolution..Creation was first! So evolution will have to take a back seat to it!
And you are entitled to your opinion. But back to the OP, ID should not be taught alongside evolution.
(adren@line;44329)
That doesn't matter.The point of my response was that the mentality of "A comes from B comes from C" solves nothing. The majority of philosophers have avoided this mindset, including Christian theologians such as Aquinas.
This is sad, because God and His Son Jesus Christ is the only thing in this world that does really matter. If you keep avoiding God and keep the mindset of philosophers, you will never come to the knowledge of the true God.
That doesn't matter.The point of my response was that the mentality of "A comes from B comes from C" solves nothing. The majority of philosophers have avoided this mindset, including Christian theologians such as Aquinas.
This is sad, because God and His Son Jesus Christ is the only thing in this world that does really matter. If you keep avoiding God and keep the mindset of philosophers, you will never come to the knowledge of the true God.
- Feb 24, 2008
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(setfree;44331)
This is sad, because God and His Son Jesus Christ is the only thing in this world that does really matter. If you keep avoiding God and keep the mindset of philosophers, you will never come to the knowledge of the true God.
Ive heard the same thing from Muslims about Mohhamed and Allah.Word for word. So whos right?
This is sad, because God and His Son Jesus Christ is the only thing in this world that does really matter. If you keep avoiding God and keep the mindset of philosophers, you will never come to the knowledge of the true God.
Ive heard the same thing from Muslims about Mohhamed and Allah.Word for word. So whos right?
You have avoided my question about the Bible and the fact that it is proven by many prophecies years before it happened or man discovered it.For example;1. In Leviticus17:11 "the life of the flesh is in the blood" written 4,800 years befor Harvey discovered it in 1625.2. Isaiah 40:22 "the circle of the earth" 2,000 years before Columbus proved it.3. Ecclesiastes 1:7 "rain cycle" 4. Exodus 2:3 Rockefellers geologist used the scripture to discover oil in Egypt.5. Isaiah 13:17-22 Babylon was destroyed in BC 538 and never rebuilt.6. Ez. 26;4-14 God spoke of the devastation of Tyre of Alexander long before it happen.7. Isaiah 7:14 The bible foretold accuratly the birth of Christ fulfilled Matt. 1:22-23.Seven is a good number to stop at.
(adren@line;44333)
Ive heard the same thing from Muslims about Mohhamed and Allah.Word for word. So whos right?
Well let see! If this is going to be a question like gambling.....I stick with my God and Savior! Does your god speak to your heart? Does he bare witness with your created spirit? Or is it just a hope so belief?
Ive heard the same thing from Muslims about Mohhamed and Allah.Word for word. So whos right?
Well let see! If this is going to be a question like gambling.....I stick with my God and Savior! Does your god speak to your heart? Does he bare witness with your created spirit? Or is it just a hope so belief?
- Feb 24, 2008
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(setfree;44335)
Well let see! If this is going to be a question like gambling.....I stick with my God and Savior! Does your god speak to your heart? Does he bare witness with your created spirit? Or is it just a hope so belief?
Its only gambling if you believe in an afterlife. Luckily, I do not. So nothing to worry about.
Well let see! If this is going to be a question like gambling.....I stick with my God and Savior! Does your god speak to your heart? Does he bare witness with your created spirit? Or is it just a hope so belief?
Its only gambling if you believe in an afterlife. Luckily, I do not. So nothing to worry about.
(adren@line;44336)
Well for one both Islam and Hinduism have prophecies that have "come true" according to their followers, which means that not only is Jesus real, but so is Allah and Ganesh.Two, there are already people who have spent a considerable amount of time refuting every single claim Christians have made about their religion and the Bible. People make entire careers out of this. Its big business.I have read their arguments and the Christian arguments, and I find the skeptics arguments more convincing. So no need to repeat eh?
In other words you make claims about Islam and Hinduism's prophecy and do not post them.How do you answer 1-7 how do you disprove this? Or how does your philosophy disprove it?Another sad statement- that there are people out there wasting there time to prove God wrong.Please repeat! I have never heard there arguments.
Well for one both Islam and Hinduism have prophecies that have "come true" according to their followers, which means that not only is Jesus real, but so is Allah and Ganesh.Two, there are already people who have spent a considerable amount of time refuting every single claim Christians have made about their religion and the Bible. People make entire careers out of this. Its big business.I have read their arguments and the Christian arguments, and I find the skeptics arguments more convincing. So no need to repeat eh?
In other words you make claims about Islam and Hinduism's prophecy and do not post them.How do you answer 1-7 how do you disprove this? Or how does your philosophy disprove it?Another sad statement- that there are people out there wasting there time to prove God wrong.Please repeat! I have never heard there arguments.
(adren@line;44337)
Its only gambling if you believe in an afterlife. Luckily, I do not. So nothing to worry about.
adren@line, seriously I will pray for you. I wish I could say something to stir your heart toward Jesus. He loves you! If you have read the Bible and are hardened toward it, there is nothing I can do but pray. I get worked up when people talk about things that effect my Children and Grandchildren. Evolution was a trying subject in my house for awhile. When my tax dollars go toward a school that teaches and promotes things against my Heavenly Father, well, it just boils my blood!If you were to turn this around and your children were to go to school and only creation was taught....I rest my case! The Holy Spirit will have to convict you...maybe He is and that is why you brought this subject up...Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its only gambling if you believe in an afterlife. Luckily, I do not. So nothing to worry about.
adren@line, seriously I will pray for you. I wish I could say something to stir your heart toward Jesus. He loves you! If you have read the Bible and are hardened toward it, there is nothing I can do but pray. I get worked up when people talk about things that effect my Children and Grandchildren. Evolution was a trying subject in my house for awhile. When my tax dollars go toward a school that teaches and promotes things against my Heavenly Father, well, it just boils my blood!If you were to turn this around and your children were to go to school and only creation was taught....I rest my case! The Holy Spirit will have to convict you...maybe He is and that is why you brought this subject up...Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Feb 24, 2008
- 128
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(setfree;44338)
In other words you make claims about Islam and Hinduism's prophecy and do not post them.How do you answer 1-7 how do you disprove this? Or how does your philosophy disprove it?Another sad statement- that there are people out there wasting there time to prove God wrong.Please repeat! I have never heard there arguments.
- I do not elaborate on them because I follow neither faith. But just for the heck of it, Hindu texts predicted the coming of Jesus and Mohhamed. How many Hindu religious leaders did the Bible predict?none.As far as 1-7, its not a matter of me proving or disproving them. All it means is that certain passages are interpreted in loose ways to predict specific things. These interpretations aren't universal. The same applies to any religion and its "prophecies".
In other words you make claims about Islam and Hinduism's prophecy and do not post them.How do you answer 1-7 how do you disprove this? Or how does your philosophy disprove it?Another sad statement- that there are people out there wasting there time to prove God wrong.Please repeat! I have never heard there arguments.
- I do not elaborate on them because I follow neither faith. But just for the heck of it, Hindu texts predicted the coming of Jesus and Mohhamed. How many Hindu religious leaders did the Bible predict?none.As far as 1-7, its not a matter of me proving or disproving them. All it means is that certain passages are interpreted in loose ways to predict specific things. These interpretations aren't universal. The same applies to any religion and its "prophecies".
- Feb 24, 2008
- 128
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(setfree;44340)
adren@line, seriously I will pray for you. I wish I could say something to stir your heart toward Jesus. He loves you! If you have read the Bible and are hardened toward it, there is nothing I can do but pray. I get worked up when people talk about things that effect my Children and Grandchildren. Evolution was a trying subject in my house for awhile. When my tax dollars go toward a school that teaches and promotes things against my Heavenly Father, well, it just boils my blood!If you were to turn this around and your children were to go to school and only creation was taught....I rest my case! The Holy Spirit will have to convict you...maybe He is and that is why you brought this subject up...Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, evolution is scientific theory based on observable nature and already established facts.Creationism is none of this. If you get mad that schools teach science and scientific theories which are based on observable nature and established facts, then you should send your children to a Christian school. You should apply your standards without bias and also insist that they do not teach in the theory of gravity (yes, it is a theory) as well as in string theory and other topics of physics.Otherwise science has everyplace in public schools while religion has no place. Religious adherents are in no position to cherry pick what science they like and what they do not in public schools. If Muslims don't like a certain topic in geology, the Christians in biology, the Hindus in physics, then we let every single religious cherry pick what a science curriculum and it become a circus and the children learn nothing.That is why religious schools exist. They get to selectively disregard science and rationality in favor of what their religion preaches.
adren@line, seriously I will pray for you. I wish I could say something to stir your heart toward Jesus. He loves you! If you have read the Bible and are hardened toward it, there is nothing I can do but pray. I get worked up when people talk about things that effect my Children and Grandchildren. Evolution was a trying subject in my house for awhile. When my tax dollars go toward a school that teaches and promotes things against my Heavenly Father, well, it just boils my blood!If you were to turn this around and your children were to go to school and only creation was taught....I rest my case! The Holy Spirit will have to convict you...maybe He is and that is why you brought this subject up...Think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, evolution is scientific theory based on observable nature and already established facts.Creationism is none of this. If you get mad that schools teach science and scientific theories which are based on observable nature and established facts, then you should send your children to a Christian school. You should apply your standards without bias and also insist that they do not teach in the theory of gravity (yes, it is a theory) as well as in string theory and other topics of physics.Otherwise science has everyplace in public schools while religion has no place. Religious adherents are in no position to cherry pick what science they like and what they do not in public schools. If Muslims don't like a certain topic in geology, the Christians in biology, the Hindus in physics, then we let every single religious cherry pick what a science curriculum and it become a circus and the children learn nothing.That is why religious schools exist. They get to selectively disregard science and rationality in favor of what their religion preaches.
(adren@line;44342)
- I do not elaborate on them because I follow neither faith. But just for the heck of it, Hindu texts predicted the coming of Jesus and Mohhamed. How many Hindu religious leaders did the Bible predict?none.As far as 1-7, its not a matter of me proving or disproving them. All it means is that certain passages are interpreted in loose ways to predict specific things. These interpretations aren't universal. The same applies to any religion and its "prophecies".
Hindu must have read the Old Testament, took out the part they wanted to try to prove they could predict. Jesus was a sure thing! The Bible predicted false prophets, they were not important enough to mention by name in the Bible...but JESUS...that name is important!!!!!!!!!!
- I do not elaborate on them because I follow neither faith. But just for the heck of it, Hindu texts predicted the coming of Jesus and Mohhamed. How many Hindu religious leaders did the Bible predict?none.As far as 1-7, its not a matter of me proving or disproving them. All it means is that certain passages are interpreted in loose ways to predict specific things. These interpretations aren't universal. The same applies to any religion and its "prophecies".
Hindu must have read the Old Testament, took out the part they wanted to try to prove they could predict. Jesus was a sure thing! The Bible predicted false prophets, they were not important enough to mention by name in the Bible...but JESUS...that name is important!!!!!!!!!!
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