Should Intelligent Design Be Taught as an Alternative to Evolution?

[adren@line]

(setfree;44344)
Hindu must have read the Old Testament, took out the part they wanted to try to prove they could predict. Jesus was a sure thing! The Bible predicted false prophets, they were not important enough to mention by name in the Bible...but JESUS...that name is important!!!!!!!!!!
The Vedas are the oldest religious text. They date to 1500BC and are older than the OT. Hinduism in general is the oldest surviving religion. (thats not my claim, that is the claim of the scholars). As far as false prophets, the Bible predicted no one in India nor did the OT. Neither book made any mention of Krishna or the Buddha, neither of whom termed themselves as prophets so your assertion does not stand.And the Buddha has had a tremendous influence across the world, and is not mentioned in the Bible.

 

[setfree]

(adren@line;44343)
Again, evolution is scientific theory based on observable nature and already established facts.There is not facts to prove it!Creationism is none of this. If you get mad that schools teach science and scientific theories which are based on observable nature and established facts, then you should send your children to a Christian school. You should apply your standards without bias and also insist that they do not teach in the theory of gravity (yes, it is a theory) as well as in string theory and other topics of physics.They could at least teach it in History. I did take my 6th child out and homeschooled him. If at a point he wants to go to public school, he will be better grounded in the truth. The battle for my 6th childs mind(influences) has been much easier. Hasn't gravity been proven?Otherwise science has everyplace in public schools while religion has no place. Public schools started out with the Bible as there readers! Religious adherents are in no position to cherry pick what science they like and what they do not in public schools. If Muslims don't like a certain topic in geology, the Christians in biology, the Hindus in physics, then we let every single religious cherry pick what a science curriculum and it become a circus and the children learn nothing.So we leave it to the athiest????That is why religious schools exist. They get to selectively disregard science and rationality in favor of what their religion preaches.
Thats why I homeschool my 6th child!

 

[setfree]

(adren@line;44345)
The Vedas are the oldest religious text. They date to 1500BC and are older than the OT. Hinduism in general is the oldest surviving religion. (thats not my claim, that is the claim of the scholars). As far as false prophets, the Bible predicted no one in India nor did the OT. Neither book made any mention of Krishna or the Buddha, neither of whom termed themselves as prophets so your assertion does not stand.And the Buddha has had a tremendous influence across the world, and is not mentioned in the Bible.
Again the Bible only mentions the important ones by name.

 

[adren@line]

good!And yes, gravity is still a theory. Should they take that out too? How about heliocentrism? After all, Christians for the most part of the last 2000 years have believed that the sun revolves around the earth.

 

[adren@line]

(setfree;44348)
Again the Bible only mentions the important ones by name.
The Buddha was important. His philosophy has had a tremendous impact on most of Asia and is gaining footing in the west. Buddhist philosophy influenced Greek philosophy, which in-turn influenced Christian and Islamic philosophy.There are even thing said by Jesus which were said by the Buddha some 600 years prior.

 

[setfree]

(adren@line;44351)
The Buddha was important. His philosophy has had a tremendous impact on most of Asia and is gaining footing in the west. Buddhist philosophy influenced Greek philosophy, which in-turn influenced Christian and Islamic philosophy.There are even thing said by Jesus which were said by the Buddha some 600 years prior.
Well, again only God can convince an unbeliever.1 Corinthians 2 12:15: We teach not in the way in which philosophy is taught but in a way that the Spirit teaches us. We teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God because he sees it all as nonsense. It is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit. A Spiritual man, however, is able to judge the value of everything.Spiritual things are beyond our knowledge-when something is beyond our knowledge, we usually condemn it, criticize it, ignore it or write it off as unimportant.

 

[adren@line]

That doesnt have anything to do with the Buddha being important.Either way, spirituality and philosophy are not mutually exclusive. Philosophy can be a gateway towards spirituality.Further, people interpret the "spirit" differently. The "spirit" is what drove the 9/11 hijackers to fly two planes into the WTC and what drove the Crusaders to massacre Jews and Muslims. It is also what drives charity with Christian missionaries.In the end, the spirit can go either way. Since you reject philosophy and logic, you cant really argue with me in regards to a "false" interpretation of the spirit or a true one.

 

[setfree]

(adren@line;44353)
That doesnt have anything to do with the Buddha being important.Either way, spirituality and philosophy are not mutually exclusive. Philosophy can be a gateway towards spirituality.Further, people interpret the "spirit" differently. The "spirit" is what drove the 9/11 hijackers to fly two planes into the WTC and what drove the Crusaders to massacre Jews and Muslims. It is also what drives charity with Christian missionaries.In the end, the spirit can go either way. Since you reject philosophy and logic, you cant really argue with me in regards to a "false" interpretation of the spirit or a true one.
The Holy Spirit did not drive the hijackers. There is a difference in the spirit that we were CREATED with and the Holy Spirit that fills us, comforts us, guides us, empowers us...maybe you need to re-read the Bible.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

(adren@line;44323)
You just keep repeating yourself, ignoring everything that I state.
Your not stating anything that even resembles an answer to anything I have posted either you as I just keep repeating the same stuff.
The Spirit is also what prompted George Bush to invade Iraq.
What prompted this was a false assumption that Hussien had WMDS which he did not it has nothing to do with a spirit.
Further, people interpret the "spirit" differently. The "spirit" is what drove the 9/11 hijackers to fly two planes into the WTC and what drove the Crusaders to massacre Jews and Muslims. It is also what drives charity with Christian missionaries.
What drove cru*****to massacre Jews was the fact that the Jews would not bow down to their false religions.The 9/11 hijackers were commiting suicide because death to them makes them a martyr. Want to know something interesting, 19 of the 22 hijackers were Saudi kind of ironic ain't it since Saudi Arabia was the very place the US launched attacks from.
There are even thing said by Jesus which were said by the Buddha some 600 years prior.
Scripture and verse please of these things you say Buddha said prior to Messiah. You come on here attacking peoples faith but Jews and Christians are not as infallable as you think. Everyone has their own ideas and beliefs and some of those maybe not fall in line with the beliefs of those that worry themselves sick about medicore things that will not change anything. You have been ask numerous times to present evidence of your claims and you have failed to do so. Therefore we have no reason to accept what your saying has the truth. Its only rhetoric.

 

[adren@line]

Your not stating anything that even resembles an answer to anything I have posted either you as I just keep repeating the same stuff.
It does address what you had stated. I am explaining to you how your logic does not hold up, whether in regards to the use of "infinity" to the whole "something comes from nothing" mindset that is flawed.In-case you forgot, here was my reply:Scientific empiricism draws conclusions as based on evidence. If no evidence exists, then one resorts to logic and math, which is what physics does.The big-bang, as often understood by the populace today, is based on an old and outdated version of theory, and does not take into account modern advances in physics.For one, many, if not most physicists (in my experience) do not believe in the outdated theory that time, energy, and space simply sprang into existence and were created at the moment of the big-bang.The most prevalent theories involve a universe that dies and is reborn, over and over again, through a continuous and infinite cycle. There are some that state that the universe will stop expanding, and eventually contract, while others state that the universe will simply die due to a big freeze or a heat death and eventually "reset".We then have the issue of time. All time is, is a measurement between a set of events or two events. Events require energy. Everything that exists, sans space itself (which is nothingness), is energy (whether particle or wave).The idea that "something cannot come from nothing" is based on the acceptance that time is linear, when there are many possibilities, which include:1. Time is cyclical and not linear.2. Time actually exists as two dimensions.3. Time is an illussion and does not exist at all.There are other plausible theories. "Everything comes from something" is based on the acceptance of time as linear.Further, scientific definitions of nature and reality describe everything that exists. Any God that would have to exist, would indeed exist within the universe (or a universe according to multiverse theory) and would be subject to the laws of the universe.This God would have to be made of energy, since there isnt anything else to be made of. A God that is made of energy and remain static and fixed and separate from the rest of the universe is a scientific impossibility since you, me, the chair you are sitting on, the tv, the planet, the galaxy, etc are all simply manifestations of energy that are transitioning from state to state.We then have the issue of all particles being an illussion. These theories state that all appearances of matter are indeed illusions, and do not exist. We have a theory also propagated by the late David Bohm (a famous physicist) that the universe itself is a grand illussion, a complex mind-trick and simply does not exist.All of these theories are based on hard math that is above me and 99.99% of the populace. ID is not based on hard math that describes reality, and is instead a faith-based alternative.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You have failed to refute anything in here, since refuting what was stated would require you to hold a degree in physics and be fluent in philosophy. Of course, you do hold a degree in physics and are considered a philosophical genius by many, so im sure it wont be hard.
What prompted this was a false assumption that Hussien had WMDS which he did not it has nothing to do with a spirit
George Bush himself said that God told him to invade Iraq.
What drove cru*****to massacre Jews was the fact that the Jews would not bow down to their false religions
I see.According to Muslims, Christianity is a false religion. So whos right?
The 9/11 hijackers were commiting suicide because death to them makes them a martyr. Want to know something interesting, 19 of the 22 hijackers were Saudi kind of ironic ain't it since Saudi Arabia was the very place the US launched attacks from
How insightful.You should win a nobel prize for your ground breaking analysis.
Scripture and verse please of these things you say Buddha said prior to Messiah.
Have a go at it:http://www.google.com/search?q=the+buddha+...lient=firefox-aBTW how much do you know about Buddhism?
ou come on here attacking peoples faith but Jews and Christians are not as infallable as you think. Everyone has their own ideas and beliefs and some of those maybe not fall in line with the beliefs of those that worry themselves sick about medicore things that will not change anything.
ok.
You have been ask numerous times to present evidence of your claims and you have failed to do so. Therefore we have no reason to accept what your saying has the truth. Its only rhetoric.
I havent failed at anything. If you believe otherwise, please point out the specific instances. I am sure a nobel prize winner such as yourself will easily be able to decimate any argument I put forth.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

I am sure a nobel prize winner such as yourself will easily be able to decimate any argument I put forth.
If you want get sarcastic I can do that too.
According to Muslims, Christianity is a false religion. So whos right?
I guess that depends on which side of the fence your on.
You should win a nobel prize for your ground breaking analysis.
Well its a known fact you will not win one for yours either.
You have failed to refute anything in here, since refuting what was stated would require you to hold a degree in physics and be fluent in philosophy. Of course, you do hold a degree in physics and are considered a philosophical genius by many, so im sure it wont be hard.
I do not claim to hold a degree anything. When folks come on here proclaiming this and that with no proof to back it up makes me wonder why they would want to shame themselves with such nonsense.

BTW how much do you know about Buddhism?

Nothing and do not want too. If thats your religion thats fine but you do not see me bashing it as you seem to want to do others religion here. This thread is going no where if a moderator sees it please lock it....

 

[RobinD69]

(setfree;44316)
RobinD69reach: You Go Girl!!!
Thank you but I am a guy.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

Hehehehehe.......thats not the first time that errors been made Robin....I almost did the same thing......

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

Either way, you are in no position to demand proof when your beliefs are based around faith.

You are in no position to judge my faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one ever said anything about proof. That is called a strawman argument (look it up).

Then don't start something on assumptions and expect people to buy into it.

The whole point of this thread was to get opinions on ID being taught alongside evolution.

Thats right it is and I do not have to you what they can do with both of them.

 

[RobinD69]

(adren@line;44320)
Dont demand hard facts when you base your beliefs around faith. That is contradictory.Actually I base my beliefs on experience and not just blind faith. The experiences I have had with the Lord would be very difficult for you to understand unless you were a born again Christian. Therefor there is no contradiction, you have faith in the carnal and worldly in the form of your math and science, and I have faith in my Lord and savior thru His work in me and others. Would you believe a rock is a rock if you were holding it in your hand or would you have to do the math? I have the Lord in my heart and I know this without faith having to be involved because it is a fact, just as the rock in your hand would be a fact.I provided various theories of physics which are based on hard math. Math you cannot refute unless you understand the math and have a PHD in physics, which I am betting you do not.I will admit I do not have a PhD in anything, but do you believe that there is math out there that even the most intellegent PhDs havent discovered that could easily explain our faith?I have also used logic to display why the "something comes from nothing" approach if flawed, both scientifically speaking and logically speaking.Elaborate please.As I have said, mans logic is not on par with Gods logic. Logically miricles are impossible, but I and many others have witnessed them personally. What can your math explain about that? That we are all crazy. Not. God is everthing but seperate by His own plan. This is not dualistic or even non dualistic, but I will admit it is a mystery of God that has not been completely revealed to us.I have a creeping suspicion you werent aware of monism or non-dualism until I brought it up in this thread, so assuming that you arent aware of either philosophy, how would you know that my perspective is flawed?And assuming you are aware of the various philosophical theories (my apologies), then please elaborate on how Christian theology is monotheistic and not monistic or non-dualist.Neither of these philosophies could even come close to explaining God, no one on earth is that intellegent, but many would like to pretend they are. Math , Science, Philosophy are all works in progress and to claim any of them as hard facts is severely flawed and illogical by any standard.What?I am not claiming anything about any God being superior or inferior. I am claiming that we communicate through langauge, terms and words in languages have definitions, and those definitions do not change on whim unless society by-large starts to use the word in a different way.The definition of infinity, per the rules of the english language, means no boundaries. Something with no boundaries exists everywhere, as everything. There is nothing that isnt it, since it is infinite.If you do not like these "limits" of language, then please stop using language to communicate with me. Perhaps you can regress to tribal clicks and pops.You are not understanding. The infinity as understood by our limited definitions doesnt even attempt to explain God. Like I said everthing, language, logic, even boundaries are all works in progress and do not come even close to explaining the mysteries of God. Anyone who would adhere to ever changing methods and call them hard facts is lying to themselves and everyone around them.Again, you demonstrate the habit or arguing against something you arent familiar with. Could a three year old provide a cohesive argument against string theory? Could a physicist who has never picked up a brush teach a class on painting?Yes, in God all things are possible and man is a fool who thinks otherwise.The answer is no.I didnt state "Hindu mythology" or "Greek mythology". I stated "Hindu philosphy" and "Greek philosophy". What the populace practiced (henotheism/polytheism) and what the philosophers believed were two very different things.How much Plato and Aristotle have you read? Have you read the Upanishads?If you havent, you are in no position to argue against them.Not since high school. But what little I do remember, they were still only opinions.They have basis in logic, science, math, and philosophy.Your opinions have basis in faith, and faith has no basis in reality, that is why it is called faith.Yes and No, You are of the opinion that your methods explain reality and faith has no basis in reality. You are right in that our limited understanding of reality causes us to put limits on true reality. You are wrong in that there is not true limits on reality and we are not even close to understanding the complete truth.The Greek populace had faith in Zeus, the Hindus in Ganesh, the Muslims in Allah, the Jews in Yaweh, the Christians in Jesus, the Zoroastrians in Ahura Mazda.In the end, all faiths are equal. And there is nothing wrong with faith. But it is not subsitute for science, logic, or math.
You are wrong, all faiths are not equal. Christianity is the only true faith. The others attempt to be more, but all they are are opinions based on carnal desires. Christianity is based on the one true God who offers to do all for us and has done much more for us than any of us realize.

 

[RobinD69]

(adren@line;44333)
Ive heard the same thing from Muslims about Mohhamed and Allah.Word for word. So whos right?
The Christiansare right. Read the Bible and the Quran. The Bible is God breathed and the Quran is plageristic and carnal.

 

[RobinD69]

(adren@line;44336)
Well for one both Islam and Hinduism have prophecies that have "come true" according to their followers, which means that not only is Jesus real, but so is Allah and Ganesh.I am sorry but any prophecies that have come true from either Islam or Hinduism were plagerized from the Bible.Two, there are already people who have spent a considerable amount of time refuting every single claim Christians have made about their religion and the Bible. People make entire careers out of this. Its big business.I have read their arguments and the Christian arguments, and I find the skeptics arguments more convincing. So no need to repeat eh?
This is because your logic is flawed.

 

[adren@line]

Stuff only seems like a mystery or "beyond us" if you havent thought it about it enough. If you think about it enough, then it is no longer a mystery.If you dont care to think about it enough or have better things to do, then dont pretend that "God is above logic" or "God is a mystery" since you wouldnt know.This is easily evidenced via philosophy. There are many ideas and concepts of God that make perfect sense, and hence there is no mystery. There are many more that make absolutely no sense and are based on faith.As far as all faiths being equal and Christianity being the one truth faith, the only way you could know that is if you were fluent in philosophy and practices of all faiths. And you are not, and hence are in no position to make that comment. You are simply regurgitating what your preacher has told you or someone at your church.

 

[adren@line]

(RobinD69;44414)
The Christiansare right. Read the Bible and the Quran. The Bible is God breathed and the Quran is plageristic and carnal.
There are many people who have devoted a considerable amount of time to showing how the Bible and the idea of Jesus is based on previous myths from different cultures. There are also many people who have spent a considerable amount of time to prove that Jesus didnt even exist.The point is that everything negative that can be said about Islam, can be said about Chrristianity. So finger pointing doesnt help.

 

[adren@line]

(RobinD69;44416)
This is because your logic is flawed.
lol.Hinduism is the worlds oldest surviving religion. The Vedas (Hindu scripture) date back to 1500BC.