Should Nations help Immigrants and the Poor?

[Richard Aberdeen]

A careful review of American and World history yields a substantially different picture.

To begin, nearly all of the land in the Americas was once occupied by Natives. That is, all of the inhabited land had a network of boundaries defended by various tribes. The boundaries were not static, but altered considerably as regional climates changed and strong tribes pushed weaker tribes away and out. It was a land of “might makes right“ (the idea of “property rights” was unknown).

The forced migrations and reoccupations in the Americas occurred many times as well on the world stage. For example, the original Britons were overrun by Celts, who in turn were overrun by Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, etc., who in turn were conquered by the Normans. Surely you are familiar with the world history of migrations and newly occupied land.

In turn, America now occupies all of this land, and we now have property rights as part of our Constitution. One reads about celebrities regurgitating the “stolen land” mantra, but strangely none have offered to give up personal ownership of their mansions.

The term “illegal alien“ is written into established law. We have borders and require permission before a non-citizen enters. (It have written elsewhere in this thread about the need for border security, no matter how many Visas we want to offer.)

Do you prefer term like trespasser? If someone enters your home without your permission, he is a trespasser, he is breaking established law, and he is there illegally.

The current Administration believes that conservation is served best by land owners, not bureaucrats.

Peace.

I agree with Natives, that God owns the land; we didn't create the earth and it doesn't belong to us. Europeans called the Natives "savages" because they refused to buy and sell land. There is no doubt who the real savages were.

Crossing the border without documentation is a civil offense, not a criminal offense, the same category as a traffic ticket. The term "illegal alien" didn't exist and wasn't on the media radar until Trump first disgraced the White House. Trump has called immigrants "animals" and claims "they are poisoning our blood", the most racist thing ever said by a U.S. president, which comes directly from Hitler.

Jesus says, "I was a stranger and you did not take me in" to wicked people like Trump.


“I will be a swift witness
Against sorcerers,
Against adulterers,
Against perjurers,
Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans,
And against those who turn away an alien—
Because they do not fear me,
Says the Lord of hosts.” --Malachi 3:6

“Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion
Everyone to his brother.
Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
The alien or the poor.
Let none of you plan evil in his heart
Against his brother.” --Zecharia 7:10, thus says the Lord

“But let justice run down like water,
And righteousness like a mighty stream – Amos 5:24, thus says the Lord

 

[Always]

There is a simple answer to this, because you used the word "nations" which literally means "people" should people help immigrants and the poor? The Word of God states we will have the poor with us always.

The statement appears in the gospels (Matthew 26:11, Mark 14:7, and John 12:8) during the anointing at Bethany.

The Full Verse: In the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 15:11 notes that poverty will persist, but immediately commands: "Therefore I command you, 'You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land'".

The Meaning: Rather than excusing apathy, Jesus was reminding his followers that because people in need will always be around, there is a constant mandate to care for them

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

There is a simple answer to this, because you used the word "nations" which literally means "people" should people help immigrants and the poor? The Word of God states we will have the poor with us always.

The statement appears in the gospels (Matthew 26:11, Mark 14:7, and John 12:8) during the anointing at Bethany.

The Full Verse: In the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 15:11 notes that poverty will persist, but immediately commands: "Therefore I command you, 'You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land'".

The Meaning: Rather than excusing apathy, Jesus was reminding his followers that because people in need will always be around, there is a constant mandate to care for them

Jesus didn't say people, he says "nations" in Matthew 25. It is true that nations are made up of people, but it is also true that Israel as a nation was instructed by God to leave 10% of their fields unharvested, the same as today being taxed 10% to help immigrants and the poor have food to eat.

You are splitting hairs where none exists. Ezekiel 16:49 clearly says that a primary reason God destroyed Sodom is because she failed "to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." Under Trump, the hand of the poor and needy has been greatly weakened by defunding many programs for the sick and poor.

 

[Always]

Jesus didn't say people, he says "nations" in Matthew 25. It is true that nations are made up of people, but it is also true that Israel as a nation was instructed by God to leave 10% of their fields unharvested, the same as today being taxed 10% to help immigrants and the poor have food to eat.

You are splitting hairs where none exists. Ezekiel 16:49 clearly says that a primary reason God destroyed Sodom is because she failed "to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." Under Trump, the hand of the poor and needy has been greatly weakened by defunding many programs for the sick and poor.

The Shift in Meaning Historically emphasizing a community of people (much like "tribe" or "ethnicity"), the word's meaning shifted around the 16th century. It grew to be synonymous with a geographically bound, sovereign political state, a transition closely linked to the rise of the nation-state concept

God's Word never shifts, In Hebrew, the primary word for "nation" or "people" is Goy (גּוֹי), plural Goyim (גּוֹיִם) . In the Bible, it can refer broadly to any political or ethnic group, including the Israelites, but it is most commonly used to describe foreign nations or non-Jews

In historical and biblical contexts (such as the Targums and the Aramaic portions of the Talmud), these words are used to designate both the kingdom of Israel and the surrounding pagan or foreign empires. It acts as a direct parallel to the Hebrew word goyim (often translated as "nations" or "gentiles") and the Greek ethnos.

Thank God the Supreme court upheld birthright citizenship!

 

[Holy_Rover]

Christ teaches that the Greatest Commandment is to Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. This is a command given to individual people, but I do not conflate that to Nations as being a commandment given to Nations.

 

[SavedInHim]

Christ teaches that the Greatest Commandment is to Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. This is a command given to individual people, but I do not conflate that to Nations as being a commandment given to Nations.

Fair enough, but a lot of Christians say the government has no right to exclude religion within its walls. So do individual Christians within the government have the right and responsibility to influence public policy toward Christian values?

 

[markalan]

Ezekiel 16:49 clearly says that a primary reason God destroyed Sodom is because she failed "to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

A close reading of Ezekiel 16:49 & 50, shows that it was because of the "abomination" ... Ezekiel 16 refers to the Levitical Covenant where abomination is identified as homosexuality. This is supported by 2 Peter 2:7 which also identifies the sin of Sodom as sexual immorality.

Under Trump, the hand of the poor and needy has been greatly weakened by defunding many programs for the sick and poor.

Here in Australia we have a left wing government that is being accused of the same thing when in fact it is an attempt to cut waste and fraud, and keep the budget within manageable limits.

 

[Holy_Rover]

Fair enough, but a lot of Christians say the government has no right to exclude religion within its walls. So do individual Christians within the government have the right and responsibility to influence public policy toward Christian values?

I know that I would like for Christians in the Govt., locally, county, state, and Federal, to protect my rights to worship freely, and to uphold Christian values over promoting things that are not Christian values. I believe that the 1st Amendment has been turned on it's head to mean keep the Church out of the Govt. and the Public Square --- I believe the 1st Amendment's true intent is to keep the Govt. out of the Church!!!

 

[Wrangler]

Fortunately for the sick and poor and, unfortunately for those who promote such nonsense, various prophets in the Bible and God himself seem to have the opposite opinion. Rather than debate with folks who apparently believe Jesus was a capitalist, let's see what the Bible actually says about this:

In Leviticus 23, God commands individuals from the nation of Israel: "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger. . ."

Fixed your error. Your collectivist dogma is so extreme, you take commands to individuals AS IF they are collective commands. Your own quote is to ”you”, individually, not collectively to the Nation. ”You”, individually must worship like this. And ”You”, individually shall not murder, bear false witness, steal, etc. Every command from God is to ”you”, individually, not collectively to a Nation. ”You”, individually, shall not eat the forbidden fruit, etc.

The entirety of Christianity is about the salvation of an individual soul - “yours,” and not a collective judgment.