Should Nations help Immigrants and the Poor?

[JimKnox]

But it is only a misdemeanour. Unlawful presence isn't a crime.


And yet, God dealt with Israel and punished them as a nation, even for sins of individuals.

And he calls believers into his family. While we are individuals, and salvation deals with us individually, to say that "The entirety of Christianity is about the salvation of an individual soul," is blatantly false. Christianity begins with the salvation of the soul, but is to work itself out in how we treat others, especially those we are supposed to be living with in community, i.e. other believers. Try reading the Bible, particularly passages such as Acts 2:42-47 and 4:32-37.

Leftists like to say "it's only a misdemeanor ".

And yet, no matter how they spin it, GOD HATES LAWBREAKERS. (Romans 13:1-4).
He always has and always will.
It is why hell was created...for lawbreakers.
Leftists are worshipping a (god) after their own image and committing idolatry.

 

[TLHKAJ]

As far as immigrants goes, our western nations were founded on Christianity

Oh ...is that why there is a masonic lodge in DC, a huge obelisk, and our currency has a pyramid with an all-seeing eye on the capstone, and a reference to the New World Order ...and owls (signifying "molech", the god of child sacrifice) on it? Wow, okay.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Anyone standing behind a pulpit preaching to me that - “Jesus requires Christians to let a hostile, unvetted, dangerous population into their nations to destroy churches, terrorize Christians, overwhelm all resources, and turn the country into a dangerous hellhole... or else Jesus will be angry with you!” - I’d regard as an instrument of the dragon dressed in the language of Christ.

Either that, or someone capable of being so unbelievably conned and misled that I’d be afraid to let them serve on jury duty.

 

[CrowCross]

Anyone standing behind a pulpit preaching to me that - “Jesus requires Christians to let a hostile, unvetted, dangerous population into their nations to destroy churches, terrorize Christians, overwhelm all resources, and turn the country into a dangerous hellhole... or else Jesus will be angry with you!” - I’d regard as an instrument of the dragon dressed in the language of Christ.

Either that, or someone capable of being so unbelievably conned and misled that I’d be afraid to let them serve on jury duty.

Well said.

 

[Armour of God]

Oh ...is that why there is a masonic lodge in DC, a huge obelisk, and our currency has a pyramid with an all-seeing eye on the capstone, and a reference to the New World Order ...and owls (signifying "molech", the god of child sacrifice) on it? Wow, okay.

I don't know what the oblesk is or the symbolism of whose things your talking about or whether there is a masonic lodge in DC. None of that exists here in Australia and came after the founding of the nation.

When I say western nations (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc) were founded by Christians I'm saying that it was founded by European countries who were in fact Christan nations. That's why the biggest religion in Western countries is still Christianity

I looked into it further. Here are the facts

- America was discovered by Christopher Columbus in in 1492
- The first successful British colony in America was in 1607
- The nation of America was founded in 1776

- The obelisk in DC was completed in 1884
- The all seeing eye was first put on American currency in 1935.

So as we can see, America was founded by Christians. These other things you speak of came much later on.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And where did the Church Fathers teach or endorse this suicidal inversion of Christian charity?

Nowhere I've read... and I've read a lot of them.

Take John Chrysostom, one of the towering Fathers of historic Christianity.

Commenting on Romans 13, Chrysostom taught that civil government exists precisely because human society requires order, peace, restraint of wrongdoing, and protection of the weak from the powerful.

Without civil authority, he warns over and over, the strong would simply prey upon the weak.

Government, in his understanding, is not commanded by Christ to stand aside while chaos consumes the people entrusted to it.
He wrote that its very purpose includes repelling enemies/invaders, suppressing sedition, restraining disorder, preserving peace, protecting the public and safeguarding what belongs to them. (Exactly the opposite of what's going on in the West right now; a complete INVERSION from hell for all to see.)

In Homily 6 on First Timothy, discussing rulers and military protection, Chrysostom says their safety provides security to the people and describes rulers as “bulwarks thrown up before us” so that those inside can live “in peace and safety.”

So imagine walking up to John Chrysostom and telling him:

“Actually, John, Christian rulers must knowingly not protect their borders and permit a dangerous and hostile population to overwhelm their country, terrorize the innocent, destroy churches, exhaust public resources, and destabilize civil society; because stopping it would make Jesus angry.”

He would not recognize that as some advanced form of Christian compassion.

It turns his understanding of Romans 13 upside down.

Chrysostom preached radical charity toward the poor and stranger.

But he was not insane.

The people pushing this suicidal empathy can’t establish most of it from Christ, the apostles, or the early Church. They just take “love the stranger”, attach a whole modern political program to it, and then announce that rejecting the program means "rejecting Jesus".

Love of the stranger never meant abandoning your own children, families, and neighbors to chaos & danger.

If your “mercy” toward the stranger requires the innocent behind you to bleed for it, you have stopped describing mercy.

 

[Justified]

Leftists like to say "it's only a misdemeanor ".

But it is. And I'm not a leftist.

And yet, no mater how they spin it, GOD HATES LAWBREAKERS.
He always has and always will.
It is why hell was created...for lawbreakers.

God hates lawbreakers who break his law. But since you brought it up, Trump has not only continuously broken the law himself, both U.S. and international laws, he sets those free who should be in jail, and repeatedly undermines the rule of law. Trump is among the worst of the worst.

Leftists are worshipping a (god) after their own image and committing idolatry.

And you're worshipping Trump and quite possibly a god made in your own image. At this point, with all the documented evil and immoral and unethical behaviour that Trump has done, there is no excuse for ignorance (it's either willful ignorance or cognitive dissonance), the only conclusion is that the vast majority of MAGA Evangelicals worship not only Trump, but a Christ who is not the Christ of the Bible.

 

[Justified]

It's the principle.

No, it absolutely is not. That is seriously twisting Scripture. Please, do yourself a huge favour, and learn how to properly interpret and understand Scripture to avoid such serious errors.

 

[Wrangler]

They just take “love the stranger”,

Invaders are not strangers.

 

[CrowCross]

No, it absolutely is not. That is seriously twisting Scripture. Please, do yourself a huge favour, and learn how to properly interpret and understand Scripture to avoid such serious errors.

Translation.....learn how to interpret the way I apply and interpret scripture. If you do you will be doing yourself a huge favor....as I know how to avoid serious errors. You don't.

 

[Justified]

Translation.....learn how to interpret the way I apply and interpret scripture. If you do you will be doing yourself a huge favor....as I know how to avoid serious errors. You don't.

Pretty much, except it’s not “the way I apply and interpret scripture,” it’s how it has been done for hundreds and hundreds of years. Read books or take formal courses on how to properly interpret and understand Scripture. You’re proof-texting and that almost always leads to error, as it does in this case.

 

[JimKnox]

But it is. And I'm not a leftist.


God hates lawbreakers who break his law. But since you brought it up, Trump has not only continuously broken the law himself, both U.S. and international laws, he sets those free who should be in jail, and repeatedly undermines the rule of law. Trump is among the worst of the worst.


And you're worshipping Trump and quite possibly a god made in your own image. At this point, with all the documented evil and immoral and unethical behaviour that Trump has done, there is no excuse for ignorance (it's either willful ignorance or cognitive dissonance), the only conclusion is that the vast majority of MAGA Evangelicals worship not only Trump, but a Christ who is not the Christ of the Bible.

Take your strawman and audition for The Wizard of Oz, for that is where your argument and what-about-ism belongs.
Commie-rats do not belong in this nation.

 

[Wrangler]

Christian rulers must knowingly not protect their borders and permit a dangerous and hostile population to overwhelm their country, terrorize the innocent, destroy churches, exhaust public resources, and destabilize civil society; because stopping it would make Jesus angry.”

I love this way of putting the argument!

 

[JimKnox]

Pretty much, except it’s not “the way I apply and interpret scripture,” it’s how it has been done for hundreds and hundreds of years. Read books or take formal courses on how to properly interpret and understand Scripture. You’re proof-texting and that almost always leads to error, as it does in this case.

Look in the mirror, leftie.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

"An ancient human tale about the Hobbits and the Goblin clans from another age...

The Parable of the Shire That Forgot Itself

Saruman arrives at the Shire—not with armies, but with decrees.

He tells the Hobbits:

“Because of ancient conflicts started elsewhere, the Shire must now accept a permanent influx of aggressive goblin clans.

This is not optional. This is justice.”

At first, the Hobbits protest. They resist.

They say:

“This isn’t our war.”

“Our villages are peaceful.”

“Our children aren’t safe with them here.”

Saruman smiles patiently.

“Your discomfort is unfortunate, but resistance would make you morally suspect.”

So the goblins arrive—rowdy, hostile, openly contemptuous of Shire customs.

Fires break out. Markets close early. Hobbits stop walking alone at night.

Still, Saruman insists:

“What you’re seeing isn’t disorder. It’s misunderstood vitality.”

The Hobbits grumble… then hesitate… then fall silent.

Soon, something strange happens.

Hobbits begin correcting each other:

“You shouldn’t notice that.”

“You’re exaggerating.”

“Saying that makes you sound hateful.”

The problem is no longer the goblins.

The problem is speaking about the goblins.

Then Gandalf Arrives

Gandalf rides in, staff blazing.

He looks around and says:

“Hobbits. Why are your roads burned?

Why do your children hide indoors?

Why do you whisper in your own lands?”

The Hobbits recoil.

Not in fear — but in offense.

They whisper among themselves:

“Gandalf is dangerous now.”

“He questions the new moral order.”

“He makes us uncomfortable.”

And finally, one Hobbit says aloud:

“To suggest that what’s happening to us is harmful… is itself the harm!”

Saruman nods approvingly.

Gandalf lowers his staff.
Not because he is defeated — but because the spell is already complete.”

 

[JimKnox]

But it is. And I'm not a leftist.


God hates lawbreakers who break his law. But since you brought it up, Trump has not only continuously broken the law himself, both U.S. and international laws, he sets those free who should be in jail, and repeatedly undermines the rule of law. Trump is among the worst of the worst.


And you're worshipping Trump and quite possibly a god made in your own image. At this point, with all the documented evil and immoral and unethical behaviour that Trump has done, there is no excuse for ignorance (it's either willful ignorance or cognitive dissonance), the only conclusion is that the vast majority of MAGA Evangelicals worship not only Trump, but a Christ who is not the Christ of the Bible.

Stop lying.
GOD HATES LAWBREAKERS. PERIOD.
Rimans 13:1-4. The plain language of this text alone makes YOU an enemy of God.

 

[David in NJ]

Immigration: open borders?

Assume Congress passed a new immigration law that said, “Anyone anywhere in the world who wants to come to the U.S., to study, work, visit, play, hangout, kindly fill out a Visa Application, and if you pass a health and a security check, then welcome!”

Next: You are in charge of a staff that reviews security checks.

Question: what might be revealed that would give you pause in issuing a Visa (at least until additional information surfaced)?

Possibilities: connections to gun running? Drug running? Sex trafficking? Gang membership? Contraband smuggling (e.g., elephant ivory, exotic endangered animals)? Terrorist activities?

Is the point of this “What if” clear?

Peace.

Bob,
Your post makes too much logical sense = the Demoncrats will not tolerate such intolerance from you!

 

[Justified]

Stop lying.
GOD HATES LAWBREAKERS. PERIOD.
Rimans 13:1-4. The plain language of this text alone makes YOU an enemy of God.

So, God hates Trump. Glad to have that cleared up. It would mean he hates you too, since you have certainly broken the law at some level, right?

 

[Taken]

I think governments should help the poor in their own nations.

Disagree.

Governments must First, Compel, Force, Threaten, Take what belongs to the People, before it … Qualifies and Decides Who the government will dole out “What others worked for and possessed”.

Apparently to justify their undying support of the Republican so-called 'free' market agenda, Evangelical and other conservative Christian leaders have invented an axiom seemingly taught religiously to their congregations, that only individuals and, not nations collectively, should help the sick and poor.

Government's produce nothing…to then have a coffer loaded to dole out to whomever.

Yes, God established the protocol for men to “Lend” a Helping Hand
AND
“Leave” the edges of the garden for travelers and the poor to come “Themselves” and pick.
AND
“Dig in your OWN coffers and Belongings” and “Give Away” to whom you aim to please…called “charity”.
…Compelled by Law, by Force, to Earn, possess and GIVE to another…
NOT in Gods Law!

AND FYI…
God is NOT AGAINST “slavery”…
Men “indebted” to another, with no means to “repay” … have, can, by whatever TERM… servant, slave, by Agreement to relinquish their Freedom to the Master of their debt.

AND…in seven years, year of Jubilee, the Debt and time of Service is account fulfilled.
States in the US has similar laws with conditions.

AND FYI… foreigners desiring to come to the US have a legal Application protocol, including having a US established Sponsor.

Even the Israelites welcomed Strangers into their land and communities… AS LONG AS the strangers DID NOT Attempt to Corrupt ISRAELITES Religious Practices, traditions and customs. They were to be Warned, Booted out and Killed if they Returned.

Glory to God,
Taken