there seems to be a lot of confusion on this issue. What do you mean God chose to reveal Himself in a specific order? Are you saying that God is one being revealing himself in different ways?
Should we pray to God or Jesus or both?
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there seems to be a lot of confusion on this issue. What do you mean God chose to reveal Himself in a specific order? Are you saying that God is one being revealing himself in different ways?
I should have clarifed that as I was taking Guestman's reply to my post to it's logical conclusion.
Not what I actually believe to be the case.
My apologies for not taking the time to re-read my post straight away.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Thanks for clearing that up - it is so hard to get a message through clearly online!
I pretty sure we both believe in the Trinity - this conversation was based on misunderstanding.
Miss Hepburn
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there seems to be many different thoughts on the Trinity among the posters in this thread. I asked a few what the "God" means and no one seems to answer. People are saying Jesus is God and the Father is God, but no one seems to want to define what "God" means.
I find it interesting that people are arguing Jesus is God and no one seems to able to define what "God:" means.
God
–noun 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god
-- Apparently you are among this group, as well.
The definition that Ducky provides is correct.
Jesus is God.
Yep.
Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God..." - Col 1:1
-- Paul became an apostle of Jesus Christ...the same God who knocked him off his horse and said, "Saul, why do you persecute me."
Notice, Paul wasn't persecuting those who followed the God of the OT. He persecuted them for following Jesus.
"because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus..." - Col 1:4
-- The ONGOING faith in Jesus Christ. Not just faith in what He accomplished. In other words, faith in God.
"And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way" - Col 1:10
-- Live a life worthy of the Lord...Jesus Christ. In other words, worthy of God.
'For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." - Col 1:13
-- Into the "Kingdom of the Son"...God's kingdom.
It states also we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. That means that no only did Christ pay the price for our sins, but grants forgiveness for those sins...which is what God does.
There's a problem with that definition. While that definition fits the Father, it doesn't fit the Son. Now if the Son is also God then we must use a different definition. The Greek word translated God ,is Theos, it means divine or deity, The Father is divine, Jesus is divine. However, Jesus is not the Father.
Thayer’s Greek Definitions
G2316 θεός theos Thayer Definition: 1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities 2) the Godhead, trinity 2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity 2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity 2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity 3) spoken of the only and true God 3a) refers to the things of God 3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him 4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way 4a) God’s representative or viceregent 4a1) of magistrates and judges
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Eloheem
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions
H430 אֱלֹהִים ʼĕlôhı̂ym BDB Definition: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive—singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
H3068 יְהֹוָה yehôvâh yeh-ho-vaw' From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the Lord. Compare H3050, H3069.
Each of these definitions applies to both Jesus and the Father, thus both are God, but not the same being.
John 14:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
There's only one true God. You cannot divide Him.
Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
[sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
If you believe that Jesus is God and that there is only one true God then what's your point?
Context, my fried, context.
The point is that Jesus is not the Father The passage you posted shows that there is a plurality in the Godhead
Who said Jesus is the Father? The fact is that God is infinite and cannot be explained other than what the Scriptures say. The definition I posted fits Jesus. He is the King of Kings and Almighty God. So then, if you are not denying that Jesus is Almighty God the Creator then we agree.
Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
[sup]6 [/sup]For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Wouldn't "Almighty God" refer to the Father. Almighty means that there is none mightier, correct? Isn't the Father above the Son?
-- So you are either saying that God is mightier than Jesus, although they are the same person.
................................uh huh
The same Person??? Didn't Jesus say,
John 14:28 ( KJV )
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Are you suggesting that Jesus was saying that He was better than HImself?
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