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Featured Significant dates of Christ - Frankincense - Are the customs Pagan? Dinners around the world!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Grailhunter, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Significant dates of Christ
    A little background info…Mosaic Law….Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. The Jewish Sabbath occurs weekly on Saturday, similar to the Christian Holy Day that occurs on Sunday.

    The Gregorian calendar missed the birth of Christ by 3 years. When calculating keep in mind that the Gregorian calendar does not have a year 0 (zero) and Year 1 is both BC and AD.

    Herod dies March 12th 4 bc So Christ has to be born before that. Josephus notes an eclipse of the moon around the time of Herod death. Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) indicate that there was an eclipse of the moon that could be seen from Jerusalem on the night of the 23rd of March 4 BC.

    Twinkle Twinkle Little Star!
    So Herod secretly told the Magi to go to Bethlehem and investigate and report back to him, but the Magi chose to follow the star instead. (Matt. 2:1-9) The star then moved north to Nazareth and they followed the star to a small home were the baby Jesus lived and they worshiped Him (Matt. 2:11) It was the Star of Nazareth, not the Star of the Nativity, because the Magi never went to Bethlehem. Which solves another misunderstanding.

    ( Oh Three Kings of Orient are…)
    The early Christian leaders had problems with the word Magi because it means magic-ian, better understood in this time period as wizard, sorcerer, or even witch. In fact, the masculine noun of this word is used to describe Simon Magus in Acts chapter 8 and Elymas the sorcerer in Acts chapter 13 who were not Magi, but just run of the mill sorcerers. So in some translations they named them wise men and tradition labeled them as three Kings, even though the number is not specified in the Bible. The gifts that the Magi gave Christ was a treasure, not trinket gifts. Matthew 2:11 And as indicated they may have been the first to worship Him.

    The custom or tradition that the Magi were from the east and His star appeared in the east, is a contradiction. (Matt. 2:1-2) If the Magi would have been from the orient or east of Jerusalem and saw His star in the east they would be following the star in the opposite direction of Bethlehem/Nazareth. So this simply does not make any sense...unless they saw it from somewhere else. This group of Magi although not all Egyptians were probably from the area around Alexandria, Egypt and maybe they saw it in the sky east of Egypt. Also it should be noted that the star is a light, not a heavenly body because it moves, not in straight lines, and rests and according to some traditions casts a light to where Christ was. So the light could have hovered east of Alexandria and the Magi followed it around the Mediterranean, coming from the east to Nazareth by way of Jerusalem. Another contradiction resolved.

    Then God spoke to the Magi in a dream and warned them not to return to King Herod. So they departed for their own country by another way. Matt. 2:12 Then in the next verse Matt. 2:13... Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.”

    Then in Matthew 2:19-20 But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, and said, “Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child’s life are dead.” Herod dies on March 12th 4 BC.

    Spoiler Alert: Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
    The Bible indicates Christ’s ministry starts when He was baptized by John the Baptist. Luke 3:23 ----Luke 3:1 Indicates that John the Baptist starts Baptizing in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which would be in the year 29 AD. Which means that you would have to push Christ’s crucifixion off to 33 AD, (Next available date for the Passover on a Sabbath.) which would mean that Christ was born after Herod’s death? Which would make Christ 36 years old or throws Matthew’s story of the Magi, Herod, and the killing of innocents out the window. So it would seem that Luke may have added incorrectly. To keep the timeline correct Christ ministry would have to start in 27 AD, plus or minus a few months.


    Christ's week in Jerusalem
    Palm Sunday
    Matthew 21:1-11
    Mark 11:1-11
    Luke 19:28-44
    John 12:12-19

    Monday
    Cleansed the Temple of the money changers
    No broom a length of rope
    Matthew 21:12
    Mark 11:15-17
    Luke 19:45-46

    Tuesday
    Mount of Olive sermon and parables
    Matthew 21:23-24
    Mark 11:20-13:27
    Luke 20:1-21:36
    John 12:20-38

    Wednesday
    The woman with the Alabaster Jar
    Judas goes to negotiate Christ betrayal
    Matthew 26:2-16
    Mark 14:1-11
    Luke 22:3-6

    Thursday
    The Last supper
    Matthew 26:17---
    Mark 14:12---
    Luke 22:7---
    John 13:1---

    Friday
    Passover---The Feast of Unleavened Bread----Hag Ha-Matzot.

    Passover is one 24 hour period in the seven day Feast of Unleavened bread. The Jewish Passover occurs each year on the evening of the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

    One thing we know for sure, Christ was not crucified on the day He ate the His Last Supper. But the Jews would have normally been eating the Passover meal on the day Christ was crucified, that would be Friday.

    Over the centuries there have been some confusion on which day the Last Supper occurred, and the circumstances of its occurrence. So before we go on let me explain. Traditionally in this time period, on the eve before the Passover the sacrificial lamb was slain and butchered ritualistically. The blood was collected ritualistically and applied to the doorways. (This is the Passover part of the ritual of the plaque of the first born.) Then the entire lamb was cooked over a fire and eaten entirely, with unleavened bread. (The sacrifice could be either an unblemished goat or lamb. You can read about this ritual in Exodus chapter 12.) This is not exactly what happened during the evening of the Last Supper. But the Gospels use the term Passover meal to refer to the Last Supper and also reference the Passover lamb being sacrificed on Thursday evening, from there, confusion ensued.


    The Jewish Passover that year occurred on Saturday April 8th 30 AD, and started at dusk (As the Full Moon rose) on April 7th. Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) shows a full Moon on the evening of April 7th when Passover began. So the Passover for that year occurred on the Jewish Sabbath...Saturday. Two Holy events occurring on the same day. Some refer to this as a High Holy Day, High Day, or High Sabbath for the Jews. The Lambs would have been killed on Friday, the afternoon of the 7th of April. But Christ would not be alive Friday evening. So in this instance there was an honorary Passover meal for Christ. As I said, we know that Christ did not eat the Last Supper on the day He was crucified.

    He was the symbolic and divine sacrificial lamb and He was slain around 3:00 pm on the 7th of April, around the time that the actual sacrificial lambs were being slain. The Passover dinner for Him was held on the evening of the 6th of April...Thursday and they had a sacrificial lamb. The next day, the actual Passover lambs would be slaughtered and eaten on Friday evening/night...for the Passover dinners. Christ was the sacrificial lamb for the New Covenant and He was crucified during the day on Friday, about the time the sacrificial lambs for Passover were being killed. So Christ would not be observing the normal processes of the Passover and the Passover meal, and as it turned out, the same was true for the Apostles because they would be in hiding, not sacrificing lambs. They may have arranged for food to be brought to them, but they probably were not sacrificing lambs at the Temple while Christ was being crucified.

    The meal that Christ attended was a meal that the Gospels refer to as the Passover meal, put it was not the actual Jewish Passover meal. As I explained, the next day was the Jewish day of preparation for the Passover, and the Jewish Passover meal would occur then. This was the day that Christ was slain. Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, 31, and 42, all confirm that the day that Christ was crucified was on the Day of Preparation, which was Friday, April 7th 30 AD. John 18:28 also proves that on Thursday night/Friday morning, the day of Christ’s crucifixion, the Apostles had not eaten the actual Passover meal yet. The morning cock had crowed for Peter John 18:27 Christ was before Pilate in the Praetorium and the Apostles did not enter because they did not want to be defiled because they wanted to eat the Passover. Which would be that evening. Another mystery solved....
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  2. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Why April 7th 30 AD?
    The death of Herod is well documented so is the date of his successors. So in order to include the story of the Herod, the Magi, the Star, and death of the innocences, Christ's birth has to happen before Herod's death. March 12th 4 BC

    We can consider April 3rd 33 AD but Christ would be 36 years old and have a 6 year ministry. and that would violate other calculations

    Both dates would have to be on a Friday because the Passover always occurs on the Full Moon. And in these years the Full Moon occurs on Friday night / Saturday morning. And this goes along with the double Sabbath tradition, ie Passover falling on Saturday.

    Why not earlier in the week in another year...31...32. The events between Palm Sunday and the Last Supper would not fit in three days.

    The Lunar Calculator shows the Full Moon on April 7th / 8th 30 AD

    full moon moon moon.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  3. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    The Last Week of Jesus' Last Passover-Suffering (Chronological order to days and hours)
    'Palm-Sunday' : Entry into Jerusalem : 5 days before Abib 15 "Feast" is Abib 10
    “Tenth day of the First Month”
    Exodus 12:3 Ezekiel 40:1 “Bone-day”
    John 12:12-19 “the next day”
    =
    Mark 11:1-11 from "near Bethany - Bethphage"; went into Jerusalem; went into temple, looked around (temple deserted); went out late, to Bethany
    = Matthew 21:1-11
    = Matthew 21:10 "He was come into Jerusalem"
    = Matthew 21:11 "This is Jesus the Prophet"
    Matthew 21:12 "He went into temple and cast out all that sold"
    Matthew 21:15 "children shouting in the temple"

    = Matthew 21:17 "He left them and went out of the city to Bethany where He slept the night in a stable."
    = Luke 19:28-44 into Jerusalem to -- "the Time of thy Visitation thou knewest" is come

    That it was the First Day of the week, is adduced; that it was on 'Sunday' is what became tradition much later. But all real fact, come from "That Selfsame Whole-Day BONE-ESSENTIAL DAY" "having been" "The Feast" "on the fifteenth day of the First Month".
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  4. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Last Week: Monday : 4 days before Abib 15 is Abib 11

    Mark 11:12-14 “the morning ... from Bethany ... fig tree
    = Matthew 21:18,19 “to the city ... fig tree
    Mark 11:15-17 “into the temple ... chased out the traders”
    = Luke 19:45,46 “into temple chased out traders”
    = <<Matthew 21:12>> which was not the event of Palm Sunday, but of the following day, 'Monday' Abib 11:
    Matthew 21:12 "He went into temple and cast out all that sold"

    Also on the same day, ‘Monday’...
    Matthew 21:15-17 “scribes and priests displeased by children who shouted in the temple”
    = John 12:20-26 “There were certain Greeks”

    Also on the same day, ‘Monday’...
    Mark 11:18 “scribes and priests sought how they might destroy Him”
    = Luke 19:47,48 “scribes and priests sought how they might destroy Him .. people were attentive to hear Him”

    Thus, on 'Monday' the same day...
    Mark 11:19 “When it became late He left the city”
    = Matthew 21:17 “He left them and went out of the city to Bethany and there spent the night in a stable”
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Last Week: Tuesday : 3 days before (Friday) Abib 15 is Abib 12

    PREACHING

    Mark 11:20,27 “In the morning (from Bethany) passing by they saw the fig tree dried up .. came again into Jerusalem in the temple”
    = Matthew 21:20 “When the disciples saw the fig tree withered away so soon” after cursed the day before

    Mark 11:22,23 “Have faith in God!...say unto this mountain”
    Matthew 21:21,22,45,46 “If you have faith … if you say to this mountain”

    Mark 11:27,28 “in the temple .. by what authority
    = Matthew 21:23-25 “when He came into the temple... by what authority
    = Luke 20:1-8 “on one of those days ... by what authority

    Mark 12:35-37 “in the temple … the Anointed, Son of David”
    = Matthew 22:41-46From that day forth no man was able to ask Him any more questions”
    = Matthew 24:1-3 “Jesus went out and departed from the temple but his disciples showed Him the buildings of the temple”

    = Matthew 26:1-2 “after two days is Passover the Son of Man is betrayed to be crucified”
    = John 12:27-36Now is my soul troubled .. for this cause I came unto this hour
    = Luke 21:34-38 “It was one of those days He taught in the temple” still—the last one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  6. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Last Week: Wednesday : 2 days before (Friday) Abib 15 is Abib 13

    Mark 14:1,2 “after two days were the Feast-days (beginning) “planned how they might take Him by craft .. not on the Feast” Abib 15.
    = Matthew 26:3-5 “assembled and consulted ... not on Feast” (77)
    = Luke 22:1,2 “Feast Day of ulb drew nigh .. priests and scribes reckoned out” the days how they might kill Him .. not on Feast .. because they feared the people" who would resist a crucifixion on the Great Day of Feast sabbath of the passover on Abib 15.

    Mark 14:3-9house of Simon ... ointment on his head”
    = Matthew 26:6-13house of Simon ... ointment on his head”

    Mark 14:10,11 “Judas to high priests ... promised him money
    = Matthew 26:14-16 “Judas to chief priests ... agreed for thirty pieces of silver”
    = Luke 22:3-6 “satan into Judas ... promised money” (81)
    = Johannes 12:37-50 “believed Him not ... he that rejecteth Me receiveth not My Words”

    Re: <<Matthew 26:2-16>> See 'Tuesday'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  7. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    B) Three days : "the first day"

    Last Week: Thursday Abib 14 was 1 day “before” (Friday) Abib 15 (69)

    2Chronicles 35:4,6,10,14 “prepared passover … killed the passover”

    = Exodus 12:15a “when they removed leaven”

    = Leviticus 23:22,10 “when ye reap the corners ... bring the first sheaf”

    Mark 14:12—15:41 “when they always killed the passover”

    = Luke 22:7—23:49 “when they had to kill the passover”

    = Mark 14:2 “not on the feast”

    = Matthew 26:5 “not on the feast”

    = John 19:14-30 “The Preparation of the Passover”

    = Matthew 26:17—27:56 “the first day leaven was removed / the first day without leaven”

    = John 12:32,34; 8:28 “the Son of Man must be lifted up”

    = John 13:1—19:30 “before the feast ... his hour ... it was night ...”

    = 1Corinthians 11:23 "The night in which the Lord was betrayed"

    = John 16:32 “the hour ... ye shall be scattered every man”

    Re: <<Thursday The Last supper>> Correct, 'Thursday 'the Fifth Day of the week' in Hebrew time is in the evening after sunset after Wednesday. It was "not on the Feast" Abib 15 but the day, Abib 14 “when they always had to kill the passover” Mark 14:12—15:41, the day before (Friday) "the Preparation" "the Sixth Day" of the week.

    Precisely...
    <<Thursday
    <<The Last supper
    <<Matthew 26:17,20---
    <<Mark 14:12,17---
    <<Luke 22:7,9---
    <<John 13:1,30---
    ON THIS DAY they Crucified Jesus—Thursday!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  8. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the comments.
     
  9. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    “Three days” the second of :

    = “the first day seven days ye shall eat unleavened bread” Exodus 12:15b; 12:18b Leviticus 23:6

    = Last Week: Friday : Feast Day Sabbath of Passover was “Abib 15” (Friday)

    Exodus 12:15,17,18,42,51

    Mark 15:42-47 “having been evening already … since The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath having begun”

    = John 19:31-42 “since the Preparation had begun ... because That Day was great-day-sabbath (of passover)”

    = Matthew 27:57-61

    = Luke 23:50-56a



    Re: <<Passover occurs each year on the evening of the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.>>

    Correct, passover “KILLED on the fourteenth day of the First Month”—not “EATEN” because “EATEN” had to be the passover-FEAST, that is, Abib 15 sunset to sunset! “That Day was : Great-Day-of-sabbath-of” PASSOVER John 19:31; not the “weekly Sabbath” / “Sabbath-of-the-week”—not “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD”—but “The Preparation” the Sixth Day of the week, ‘Friday’ in the year our Lord was Crucified “The Preparation” the Sixth Day of the week a ‘Friday’ from Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.


    One thing we know for sure, Christ was not BURIED on the same day He was Crucified. Another thing we know for sure is the Jews would definitely normally have been eating the passover meal on the day AFTER the passover lamb was sacrificed. BUT THIS YEAR THE PASSOVER LAMB WAS GOD’S and therefore nothing <normal> SO THAT NO <passover meal> at all was eaten AFTER the day, AFTER the sun had set and “THE EVENING ALREADY HAD BEGUN” / “IT ALREADY HAD BEEN EVENING” (John 19:38 Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50) BEFORE “there came Joseph” who only then “went in to Pilate and asked" him for Jesus’ body THEN STILL HANGING ON THE STILL STANDING CROSS.

    So that ultimately the seeker after truth has got everything needed to <know for sure> right in the Gospels in his Bible the Written Word of God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  10. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    And thank you for your courtesy. God bless you.

    Indeed, thank you very much; this study afforded me the occasion to RECTIFY A DECADES OLD mistake of mine.
     
  11. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    All good. It certainly a good topic for the season.
     
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  12. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Now, if you got something that you want me to look at, let me know....
    This was something I was debating years ago.
    Something to look at, something to discuss....a couple items at a time.
    All fun stuff....no offense taken...the important items are that Christ was on the cross for us and he rose from the grave.
    The 39 hours in the grave really is not an issue for me....there is another answer for that.
     
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  13. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    So was His ministry 3 or 3 1/2 years?
     
  14. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    It could very well be 3 1/2 months.
    For one the Bible does not get into the months.
    And there is a certain amount of ambiguity with Luke's reference to Christ's baptism and the reign of Tiberius Caesar.
     
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  15. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    The Feast of the Unleavened Bread
    Exodus 12:15-20
    “Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, but on the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses; for whoever eats anything leavened from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 'On the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you. 'You shall also observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt; therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as a permanent ordinance.”

    (Note: One thing to keep in mind in the Temple period, is that, this is a pilgrimage event. So Jerusalem was packed, estimated numbers of people are very high. It effectively involves all Jews. All of the Passover sacrifices had to occur in and around the Temple. So, large tents were being setup, and functioned as the “ritual houses” that people were to remain in for the evening of the Passover meals. Traditionally the meal started at sundown.)

    The dates of the Feast of Unleavened bread and Passover.
    The confusion factor:
    When we look at the Hebrew calendar for the Passover, this holyday occurs on the same date every year. When we look at the Gregorian calendar, Passover occurs on a different date every year. The date for the Passover on both calendars is formulated on being the night of the first full moon after the Spring Equinox. The reason this is possible, is because the first day of every Hebrew month, starts with the New Moon, so because of that, the Full Moon always falls in the middle of the month, so Passover, occurs on the Full Moon, and always falls in the middle of the Hebrew month, and to be exact, on the 15th of Nisan. (Nisan is like our January unless it is the Hebrew leap year.)

    Of course the Hebrews named their days of the week differently than the Romans, but they still had a seven day week, and it cycled without interruption from month to month. Meaning that the first day of the month did not reset the days of the week. So even though the Passover would occur on the same Hebrew date, it did occur on different Hebrew days of week. It just so happened that the Passover in the Gospels occurred on a Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, or as they call the day, Shabbat. Of course nothing is simple, the Sabbath is originally defined by the Mosaic Law as Saturday. By the time of Christ, many holydays could be called Sabbath. It just adds to the fun.

    Now that is the simple explanation, it gets more complicated than that and there was actually a controversy during the biblical era on what calendar systems the Jews were going to use. But I am not going to get into that. This explanation will suffice for the Passover in the Gospels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  16. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    The Day of Preparation:
    On the morning of the 14th of Nisan, any leavened products that remain in the householder's possession, along with the 10 morsels of bread from the previous night's search, (Kind of like an Easter egg hunt) would be burned. The head of the household repeats the declaration of biyur chametz, declaring any chametz that may not have been found to be null and void "as the dust of the earth" (A ritual catch all of non-effect, for anything that was made of leaven, that was accidentally not found and removed.)

    The afternoon-night of Preparation:
    The Passover sacrifice also known as the Paschal lamb or the Passover lamb, is the sacrifice that the Torah mandates for the Israelites, that is to ritually slaughter the Passover lamb in the afternoon, leaving time for the ritual and the cooking of the lamb. The Passover lamb is eaten on the evening of the Day of Preparation.

    (Note: The Temple period Passover procedures did not require the blood application on the doors of their homes because the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed at the Temple and those their may be some distance from their homes. Application of blood, if done at all, was a matter of sprinkles)

    The sacrificial animal, which was either a lamb or goat, had to be a male, one year old, and without blemish. Each family or group offered one animal together, which did not require the semikah (laying on of hands) Only those who were circumcised and clean in accordance with the Law might participate, and they were forbidden to have leavened food in their possession during the act of killing the Passover lamb. The animal was slain on the Day of Preparation, in the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, after the Tamid sacrifice had been killed, at around three o'clock, or, if Passover fell on the day before the Jewish Sabbath, Friday, the sacrifice would occur at two o’ clock to allow time for the sacrifice and for the lamb to be cooked. The majority of the sacrificial services took place in the courtyard of the Temple at Jerusalem. The external use of blood was very much part of this ritual, the courtyard had to be a bloody mess. But the Jews were not allowed to digest blood, so they would hang the animal by it rear legs and cut its throat. Then they would wait for the animal’s heart to pump out the blood which was collected in round bottomed silver or gold ritual cup.

    Strictly speaking, before the Temple the slaughtering could be performed by a layman, but after the Temple was functional, the slaughtering was done by the priests. The blood had to be collected by a priest, and rows of priests with gold or silver cups in their hands stood in line from the Temple court to the altar, where the blood was sprinkled. These cups were rounded on the bottom, so that they could not be set down; for in that case the blood might coagulate. The priest who caught the blood as it dropped from the animal then handed the cup to the priest next to him, receiving from him an empty one, and the full cup was passed along the line until it reached the last priest, who sprinkled its contents on the altar. The lamb was then skinned; but if the eve of the Passover fell on a Sabbath, the skin was removed down to the breast only. The abdomen was then cut open, and the fatty portions intended for the altar were taken out, placed in a vessel, salted, and offered by the priest to the altar, where it was consumed by fire.

    The Feast of the paschal lamb was ushered in on the evening of the 14th of Nisan. On that night, the Israelites were ordered to eat the paschal lamb, and as time went on in the OT, several rules were added to this feast. “They shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.” (Exodus12:8). They were not to eat it rare or boiled in water (Exodus 12:9) They were not to leave the meat over past the conclusion of the night (Exodus 12:10) They were not to break any of the bones of the lamb (Exodus 12:46*.) No alien sojourner, hired servant, or uncircumcised person may eat the meat of the paschal lamb (Exodus 12:43-45). And finally, the feast was to be held in one house, and no part of the meat was to be taken outside the house (Exodus 12:46). *There has been a connection drawn between the lambs bones remaining unbroken and Christ’s bones remaining unbroken…John 19:33 & 36 and its prophecy in Psalm 34:20

    The Home-house-tent Ceremony
    Then they took their lambs home and roasted them on a spit of pomegranate-wood, No bones were to be broken either during the cooking or during the eating. The whole lamb was set on the table, undivided, at the evening meal, prayers were said and the lamb was divided and set on the plates in specific arrangements. The sacrifice had to be consumed entirely that same evening, nothing being allowed to remain overnight. You need picture this scene as you would picture the Last Supper, no chairs, some form of table, pillows, and the participants laying on their left side….another topic.

    The Passover meal…Seder….is effectively a sleepover. (Requirement…no where else to go?) The family or “assembled company” cannot leave the house until the next morning. ---Assembled company or society can mean a group of people that made the pilgrimage together or even a small township if they could fit into the house or tent. In a large groups everyone was suppose to receive a piece of that lamb no smaller than the size of a large olive.

    Women and children were also allowed to be part of the Seder meal. (They probably had to clean the mess up anyway.) The following benediction was pronounced before eating the lamb: "Blessed be Thou, the Eternal, our God, the King of the world, who hast sanctified us by Thy commands, and hast ordained that we should eat the Passover." The Hallel was recited during the meal, and when the lamb had been eaten the meaning of the custom was explained, and the story of the Exodus was told. (Exodus 13:3-10) (Similar to how we do communion in the proper way.)

    The Passover meal has been described as a “shelamim” which is a peace offering, but in this case is presented as a ritual, within a ritual. A communal meal that both serviced as an atonement that covers the household, but also as the only sacrifice that was allowed to be eaten, it was an allegorical representations of partaking of something that was of God. This is another similarity that some have drawn as a connection to the Christian ritual of Communion. There were strict rules; Every member of the family or group was obliged to partake of the meal, on pain of ritual excommunication, with the assumption that all the men were circumcised and ritually clean….right with God?...same thing as it relates to Communion. Passover was a serious ritual, but the meal had a family and friends, fellowship and festive side.

    The days that follow the Passover, mostly involve dietary restrictions. No contact with leaven and only unleavened bread and water were eaten. The following five days after the Passover are regular days, work could be performed, except only unleavened bread was eaten. The seventh day is considered a Sabbath so no labor was allowed on that day.

    I believe that the description above of the processes for the Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover during the Temple period is reasonably accurate. But Christ was not able to participate in the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Apostles probably didn’t either.

    There are commentaries that note the errors in Christ’s and the Apostle’s observance of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Which means they are missing the impact of the storyline.

    That is, the fact that Christ would not be there for the actual Passover meal.

    The fact that this was the reason for an early Passover meal.

    The fact that Christ and Apostles did not stay in the room for the evening and until dawn is noted.

    That after the events in the Garden of Gethsemane, nothing else would be normal.

    So as it was Christ did not observe the normal process of the Passover and the Passover meal, as it turned out the same was true for the Apostles because they would be in hiding, not sacrificing lambs. They may have arranged for food to be brought to them, but they probably were not sacrificing lambs at the Temple while Christ was being crucified or eating a proper Seder meal.
     
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  17. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Yeap! You guessed it! Its time to play Passover Trivia! Yaaaa!

    The six foods on the Seder plate are arranged in ritual order, the Pesach-lamb bone (zeroa), egg (beitzah), bitter herbs (maror), vegetable (karpas) and a sweet paste called haroset. Many seder plates also have room for a sixth, Karpas is a vegetable, such as parsley or celery, that sits on the left side of the Seder plate. They dipped it in a certain liquid at the beginning of the Seder and eat it as an appetizer. The (Pesach) lamb offering, roasted egg, green vegetable, marror (bitter herb), charoset (sweet apple mixture), second bitter herb, matzah…..

    The Pesach represents the offering used to mark the Jews' doorways so that the Angel of Death would pass over them, as well as serving as a throwback to the lamb offering given by every Jew in the days of the Temple in Jerusalem; the roasted egg represents the second offering, the chagigah, that was also brought to the Temple; the green vegetable (or Karpas) symbolizes the rebirth of life in the spring;

    The biblical text implies that the lamb, bitter herbs, and matzah are to serve as visual aids in telling the story….ie tell your sons. The marror (bitter herbs) and the second bitter herb both represent the suffering of the Jewish slaves in Egypt; the charoset (sweet apple mixture) stands for the mortar that held the slaves' bricks together, and the matzah is the bread of affliction that the Jewish slaves brought with them in such a hurry that it did not have time to rise. After all that the question is; What is the Karpas dipped in?

    Answer: Saltwater The salt water represents the tears of the Israelite slaves. Dipping the karpas into it is supposed to act as a prompt for the children present to ask questions about the festival, as dipping vegetables in salt water is not usually done at mealtimes. All the Sedarim I've been to have used parsley, but other traditions may use a piece of onion or potato.

    The festive meal eaten on Passover night is called the______?

    Answer: Seder…."Seder" means "order" in Hebrew. The meal has 14 ritual items and processes. (including the meal itself), which are followed in a rigid order. Roughly translated, it means: blessing over wine; washing hands; green vegetable; breaking bread (or rather, matzah); telling the story of the Exodus, washing hands again in preparation for blessing over bread (as you would at a traditional Friday night dinner); blessing over bread; bitter herbs; eating bitter herbs with matzah and charoset; the big meal; hunting the Afikoman —which is more or less is a game; grace after meals; psalms; end of the Seder.

    Is fasting part of the Passover?

    Answer: In celebration of the firstborns being saved, it is traditional for the first born sons to fast on 14th of Nisan. If there are no children, the oldest member of the household fasts. If the firstborn is a daughter? Not exactly addressed in the Torah…but in modern times it is a matter of regional and sect tradition.

    The festival of Passover (or Pesach) commemorates the story of the Jews' escape from Egypt. The Passover when the houses of the observant Israelites in captivity were "passed over" as Egypt's first-born children were killed (although confusing, in the Torah, the day of preparation (the 14th of Nisan) is referred to as Passover while the week-long celebration is the Festival of Matzot. They've since been combined into one celebration called Pesach…..English Passover).

    Why is Passover sometimes celebrated for 8 days?

    Answer: Some believe it is a matter of the length of some Hebrew months. But as a whole it is again, a matter of region and sect.

    Why is the Jewish holiday of Pesach called, Passover in English? The hint being that Western Christianity assigned a name to the Jewish holyday.

    Answer: The Jewish slaves in Egypt spread lamb's blood over their doors so the angel of death would 'pass over' their homes During the tenth plague - the slaying of the first born - God saved the lives of all the Jewish children by commanding the Israelite slaves to spread lambs' blood on their doors so that the Angel of Death would 'pass over' their homes. Passover is what the English took from that.

    Why is the Feast of Unleavened Bread celebrated for 7 days?

    Answer: Traditionally it is thought that the 7 days represented the time between the Exodus and the parting of the Red Sea.

    How many cups of wine are drunk at the festive meal on Passover night?

    Answer: four… The Four Cups represent the four expressions of deliverance promised by God. (Exodus 6:6-7) "I will bring out," "I will deliver," "I will redeem," and "I will take."

    What is the name of the unleavened bread eaten during Passover?

    Answer: Matzah

    Charoset is a sweet paste made up of various ingredients such as chopped dates, kosher wine, nuts and honey (although there are tons of different recipes out there). What does charoset represent?

    Answer: The mortar used by the Hebrew slaves…Yeap that is the correct answer.

    Charoset is delicious, and there are many ways to make it. The recipe I used one year for a friend's Seder contained cooking apples, dates, cinnamon, kosher grape juice, mixed nuts, and honey.

    Which Old Testament book is read in temple during Passover?

    Answer: Songs of Solomon

    After we've eaten the Seder meal, the children (or the youngest person present, if there are no kids) will hunt for the afikoman, or kidnap it and hold it for ransom. It is a piece of matzah that is broken in two. What does the word 'afikoman' mean?

    Answer: Dessert

    What are the ten plagues?

    Answer: blood, frogs, vermin, beasts, cattle disease, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, slaying of the firstborn.

    As well as food, wine features very heavily throughout the Seder. At one point, we dip our fingers into our cups and spill drops of wine on the table. How many times do we do this, and what does it represent?

    Answer: 13 times for the 10 plagues, and the 3 acronyms with their initial letters.

    The ten plagues that God inflicted upon the Egyptians were: water turning into blood, frogs, lice, flies, a disease which afflicted livestock, boils, burning hail, locusts, darkness, and killing of the first born (both children and animals). Before the arrival of the tenth plague, God told Moses to tell the Israelites to make a mark above their doors with lamb's blood, so that God would know to spare them. The drops of wine also represent the blood spilled when the Egyptian army drowned in the Red Sea while chasing after the Israelites. By diminishing the amount of wine in our cups, we are also diminishing our celebration, as the Egyptians were God's creatures too.

    In ancient times, Jews brought a paschal lamb to the Temple on Passover. This sacrifice was eaten in groups arranged by:

    Answer: Family
    In ancient times, depending on the pilgrimage, it could be a community….but they had to fit in one house because they could not leave until the morning.


    Early Seinfeld jokes

    The case of the Passover butter
    As everyone knows, whenever a buttered piece of bread is dropped on the floor, it always falls buttered side down; this is like a law of physics. But on this occasion it had fallen buttered side up, and this was a great mystery which had to be solved. So all the Rabbis and elders and wise men of Chełm were summoned together and they spent three days in the synagogue fasting and praying and debating this marvelous event among themselves. After those three days they returned to the young housewife with this answer: "Madam, the problem is that you have buttered the wrong side of the bread."

    One Jew said to another, “How do you determine how much you will tithe to the Lord?”

    The other Jew said, “I take all of my money and give it to the Lord!.”

    His friend replied, “How can that be you are so rich!”

    The other Jew replied, “I take all my money to the roof of my house and throw it off. Whatever God wants, He can have. What falls to the ground, is mine.”

    The Pope convenes the College of Cardinals to make a special announcement.

    “I have good news and bad news,” he tells them. “First the good news: Our gracious heavenly father Jesus Christ is returning to Earth for the Second Coming, at which time he will preside over a meeting of all Christian denominations, for the purpose of uniting them into a single Christian church.

    “Now for the bad news: He wants to hold the meeting in Salt Lake City.”

    A few years ago I was invited to speak at Christ Church, the 300-year-old Episcopal congregation in Philadelphia’s Old City. On the night of my talk, Philadelphia suffered a downpour that soaked everyone who showed up. I sought out the church’s rector, the Rev. Timothy Safford, to complain.

    “Can’t you do anything about this weather?” I asked.

    Safford shook his head negatively. “I work in sales, not management,” he replied.

    A priest, a preacher, and a rabbi are flying together to an ecumenical convention. As the plane takes off, the men say a quick prayer to God.

    “Praise the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost!” the priest proclaimed.

    “Women, wine, gold rings, and cigars,” the rabbi proclaimed.

    “"Faster horses, younger women, Older whiskey, and more money!” The Texas Baptist preacher proclaimed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  18. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Confusion, clearly. Sober logic and Scripture fact though, is, that, When we look at the seasonal year, for the Passover "the fourteenth day of the First Month for you", Israel, "they always had to kill the passover on" as well as "the fifteenth day of the First Month for you", Israel, "ye shall EAT ulb on" [[not <holyday(s)>]], occur on the same date every year, but when we look at the Torah Scripture Law that "six days will you do your work but the day The Seventh Day (OF THE WEEK IN THE NT) is the Sabbath-REST-DAY OF THE LORD GOD", both passover days occur on different DAYS OF THE BIBLE WEEK. The <Gregorian calendar> or <date every year> has nothing to with the Passover of Yahweh in the Old or in the NT.

    But you apologise, <<All fun stuff....no offense taken...the important items are that Christ was on the cross for us and he rose from the grave. The 39 hours in the grave really is not an issue for me....there is another answer for that.>> No sir, to me it seems plain Scripture fact offends, you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  19. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Oh, not at all. I am sure you know people have been debating this for centuries. I did not post this for no comments or points of view. Keep it coming. Thanks
     
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    It exactly as in Scripture prophesied and revealed, happened that in the Gospels Jesus' Last Passover, according to "the Passover-of-Yahweh" in the OT, occurred over the "three days" of "the Passover-of-Yahweh" in the OT, on the "THREE DAYS THICK DARKNESS" of the ninth and tenth PLAGUES pronounced and executed on the Egyptians who made fun of God's warnings, on the 14th, 15th, and 16th days "of the First Month, of the Fifth, the Sixth, and the--quote, "SABBATH", "the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD", or as the NT calls the day, "Sabbatohn" - "Sabbath-of-the-week" / 'weekly Sabbath' of NO RESEMBLANCE with 'Saturday' of the pagan idolatrous "superstitious observing of days". Galatians 4:10.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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