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Agreed.
However it does illustrate the dangers of taking a too literal interpretation of the Bible..
Psalm 104:5
Thou didst set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be shaken.
That can be interpreted as the earth is fixed and does not move.
And
Eccl 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down,
and hastens to the place where it rises.
That can be interpreted as the sun does move and goes around the earth.
We need to recognize what sort of communication we are looking at.
The sun rises and the sun goes down, this is "phenomenal language", that is, descriptive of the perception of the speaker. What it looks like. Another example would be "the sun turned black as sackcloth, and the moon to blood."
Much love!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Mungo said: Psalm 104:5
Thou didst set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be shaken.
That can be interpreted as the earth is fixed and does not move.[/Quote\]
I guess someone could interpret it that way with the version of the scriptures you quoted, but the king James Version of Psalms 104:5 says: who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.
That can be interpreted that God created the planet earth to stand forever.
Thou didst set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be shaken.
That can be interpreted as the earth is fixed and does not move.[/Quote\]
I guess someone could interpret it that way with the version of the scriptures you quoted, but the king James Version of Psalms 104:5 says: who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.
That can be interpreted that God created the planet earth to stand forever.
Pythagorean12
Active Member
I think when everything is both of God and from God, all science is doing, every field of study, is proving God exists.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I bend the word of God.....but only because its not a hardcover. Science on the other hand doesn't need bending; it suits itself when it's convenient.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am a good person to ask these questions.
My religion and my life long hobby has been biblical study and Christian history for most of my life...a quest. I have traveled the world for information on the truth....
But my profession has been Quantum science on several levels. I can give you an insight into the conversations I have had with professors and scientists on the topic of God and Christianity. Whether it be in the labs, or the offices, or cubicles or dinners or beers.
I have been at most of the secrets sites and have had conversions with the most famous scientists. I am 64 and I have seen their views evolve over the years....and it would surprise you where they are at today. I still have friends at Caltech and JPL and converse through email on a weekly bases. So if you have questions....lets hear it.
My religion and my life long hobby has been biblical study and Christian history for most of my life...a quest. I have traveled the world for information on the truth....
But my profession has been Quantum science on several levels. I can give you an insight into the conversations I have had with professors and scientists on the topic of God and Christianity. Whether it be in the labs, or the offices, or cubicles or dinners or beers.
I have been at most of the secrets sites and have had conversions with the most famous scientists. I am 64 and I have seen their views evolve over the years....and it would surprise you where they are at today. I still have friends at Caltech and JPL and converse through email on a weekly bases. So if you have questions....lets hear it.
Largly because he used the then popes own words, that God could create how he wanted in the mouth of Simplitico, who was shown to be an idiot.
For someone accused of herasy he was treated very lightly.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
My son can fix calculators...one of his favorite shirts says, "You can't fix stupid."
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You cannot fix it but you can eliminate it via front line them. From today's devotional reading:
Proverbs 27:22
Contemporary English Version
22 No matter how hard
you beat a fool,
you can’t pound out
the foolishness
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
GaryAnderson
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting topic.
During my talks with atheists, they seem very sensitive when any other group, including Theists, use science to support their position. They want science only for them. I try to tell them that this is an irrational approach but they’re on a belief system of their own.
‘What do your science friends think of God? I mean I know of Francis Collins but don’t know of any others who are open minded.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
POINT 1
"Science" does not agree or disagree. This is personification, a common literary technique used in Scripture. Science is merely a method of inquiry. The questions the scientific method is used to answer is about our MATERIAL universe. The Word of God uses a different method to answer different questions; namely, revelation to find answers about our SPIRITUAL universe.
So, I challenge the premise of your question. Science and religion are not at odds but are different tools to solve different problems - even if there is apparent overlap. For instance, sex can be studied from a biological perspective. The Bible tends to focus on the moral aspects of this same act.
Do not suppose modern day scientists are akin to truth telling prophets of old. Nothing says "trust the science" like the force of government requiring doing things (vaccines, global warming, DDT) coercing people to their death. In case you are unaware, the attack against DDT in the 1970's led to 2 million more human deaths from malaria. "Science" has been wrong about a great many things and you should educate yourself on its historical failings.
POINT 2
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that the Bible is not a science book. Whereas, technical drawings are meant to have 1 interpretation, artistic drawings are intended to evoke many interpretations. The Bible is a highly figurative book and it is a frequent mistake to take things in it overly literally when the text is figurative. For instance, John 1:1 the Word was God. Words are WHAT's not WHO's.
Another for instance, in the famous story of Jericho, it is said the sun stood still. From Newton's Laws of Optics, we know that the image and its source are not required to be the same. That is, while the Earth revolves around the sun, God could have easily have the sun's light appear in the sky to not move - even though no heavenly body's trajectory changed.
POINT 3
The 17th century BC Creation account parallels the 20th century Big Bang Theory. Science tends to answer the question HOW. The Bible's focus is WHY.
For most of the history of science, religious people were driving scientific discovery. It is only with 19th century Darwinism that there was an apparent schism. Discoveries in 3 branches of science are once again properly uniting science and God. See thread on Evidence to Be Seen.
POINT 4
Psalm 19 relates the Works of God with the Word of God. Again, the Works of God are described in layman's terms, not scientific terms. So, I would not abuse the Bible in trying to get it to fit into a 21st century scientific mindset. Instead, look to His Work and consider the best alternative explanation for Existence and Life. Have you heard about the challenge of fine tuning?
POINT 5
What drives science? Man's desire to learn. What drives religion (the authors of the Bible)? God's love for us and his desire to have a relationship with us. The tension goes back to the Fall of Mankind, Original Sin. I submit to you the motivation for love is far superior to the quest for knowledge.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
A lot of people think that science is atheist, that is both right and wrong. Right that the methodology of science is atheist and it has to be. If it weren’t a scientist would get up in morning have breakfast, go to work, sign in, go to a lab and write in his log… “God did it” and go back home and go back to bed.
Science is about explaining what is, how it came to be, and how it works. In the 50’s and 60’s science thought they had it in the bag and was on the way to explain more. But as science looked deeper and further into things they knew they had some problems with mathematical creation. Quantum math keeps them honest.
The big bang theory dealt with the central explosion of matter….with no explanation of where the matter came from, gas or rock…LOL Then they realized that exploding matter could not travel the distance it did, in the time allotted. So they went with the theory of exploding gases turning into energy….this would travel at 186,282 miles per second. And that would push everything to the distances they needed, but it would be consistent and form a ring instead of a spiral universe full of galaxies. Meaning a lot of empty space. And that is not what we see….they are still working on that.
Quantum Mechanics…They thought they had a good grip on the atom…a nucleus of protons and neutrons and orbiting electrons….of various numbers….and in all these atoms electrons orbiting at near the speed of light….but no explanation for the energy to perpetually push them. But as they advanced they could see that the electrons were not orbiting, they were disappearing and reappearing in the orbital path…that blew their minds. Then they discovered even smaller partials called sub-atomic particles, that had some strange characteristics, so they named them quirks. Then they realized some of these sub-atomic particles reacted to being observed…and they coined the phrase, intelligent sub-atomic particles.
Then when they looked at evolution, there were things that they could not explain. It happened, but its progression did not make sense, particularly the evolution of human as compared to animals. Then they looked at DNA and they again thought they had evolution explained in the most detailed way. But the details nearly choked them. DNA is astronomically complex….a biological program that defy all explanation of how it could happen by accident. Early on science counted on time as the conduit for many of the things that happened. Quantum math and scientific notation is a very precise thing and it proves and disproves and they have to accept it. Time does not build or cause anything to happen. DNA defies all possibility of not only building accidentally but also sustaining accidentally. It has to live, eat, and reproduce, all within a liveable environment. So they were stuck and then they realized that there is something smaller more complex than DNA that influences DNA and then RNA influences DNA also. So they are still wrestling with that.
Quantum Mechanics and Astrophysics combined to explain the cosmos. Theory of Relativity, String and Ribbon Theories, and Dark Matter, they have all ran their course and have run into dead ends. They explain a lot of things but do not follow to a conclusion. Quantum science is more or less sputtering right now on the deeper theories.
But along the way the Quantum Math was keeping them honest….it worked out or it didn’t. Looking at gravity and time. Gravity has to be a certain mathematical value or it all ceases to exist. A small deviation would pretty much destroy everything. Too powerful and everything would suck into a ball, one big ball. Too little and there would be no orbiting…just chucks whirling through space. No moons, no solar systems, no galaxies, and no universe. Who came up with that mathematical constant?
So as it is when they looked at the universe they noted that they were not looking at a perpetual chaotic train wreck. Without an overall harmony, everything would be colliding and again back to chucks whirling through space. Things do collide and explode but some of it is for a purpose… suns are formed by explosions. And they are working on the ribbon effect of the time-space continuum and dimensional universes.
So when some one like me talks with them, in the labs, offices, and out at dinners and hotels, these topics come up. Some of this they are beginning to admit in public. But there are a lot of scientists that are buying into the concept of intelligent design. A form of Agnosticism….not Gnosticism…Agnosticism…the belief of an undefined deity. An intelligence behind all of what they are looking at.
Professors are a different story…most are highly political….in universities they teach our young the democrat agenda….communism…atheism…..drugs….acceptance of LGBTQ and violent minorities as a norm, the acceptance of violence and support of the parasitical minorities and illegal aliens. Most universities support the BLM movement, this is a good example.
But anyway…the methodology of science is atheist but not all scientists are atheists, and the Quantum math of science is already proving intelligent design and the harmony of all things. But it may not come up with a name for that great architect. But one thing for sure, science is our lives....all technology, electric in our lives, communications and the medical arts. Most people would not want to live in the stone age....Your smart phone has 1000 times the computing capacity than the computers that sent man to the moon and your average Ford pickup has over 30 processors.
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Mantis
Well-Known Member
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