Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Episkopos]

None of this will get you into the kingdom of God.

It's amazing that you can't see you are guilty of the very same thing you say Protestant Evangelicals are guilty of, lol. You're no different than the people you judge and criticize!

The difference is that I'm comparing to myself...not claiming any standard. I'm NOT getting more righteous in my own eyes. Of course such details escape you. To say I'm sinning less assumes that I fully understand every possible avenue of sin...only God can judge the intents of the heart.

Things to avoid.

1. I'm sinning less

2. I'm getting more righteous

3. I am become the righteousness of God.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Declaring oneself righteous based on beliefs would never occur to a Catholic...

You do not know Catholics, lol.

So then for the most part Protestantism is a Pharisee making machine. People read themselves into the bible the way children read a heroic story and pretend they are the hero.

You show that you do not know Protestant Evangelicalism. JESUS is the hero, through and through in Protestantism. How did you miss this! You are the hero in your 'gospel'. How great thou art that you follow (so you say) God's commandments and are not like other men!

Tell me this isn't you:

Luke 18:11
11 ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men'

Go ahead, tell me that's not you.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I have no words.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's not true. No one knows why a righteous man does righteous things. And for you to think you know means you are seeking to establish your own righteousness.


This is a very minority position concerning righteousness...based on seeing righteousness in a religious way whereby we may justify ourselves. In the sight of God NO man can justify himself....for any reason.


Evangelicalism does the very same thing based on beliefs. People keep dodging the truth while they seek to satisfy a carnal mind.

Submitting oneself to the righteousness of God is not the same as claiming to be God's righteousness for Him.


That's right. God's way in Christ is a perfect way in holiness.

This is muddled thinking. Only God can determine what is of faith...only He can make us enter into the holy place to offer up a holy sacrifice. Again modern evangelicalism determines for itself what is of faith (actually just beliefs) in order to CLAIM to NOT be offering strange fire.

No, I'm afraid you are muddling things up. And God does give us discernment, as well as His word, to know and determine things. God gave man instruction not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, correct? Why is that? What does a tree represent in scripture? And fruit? Are we to eat the fruit of the tree of man (self), or the fruit of the tree of Christ? One leads to death and the other to life.

Why could the Jews not receive eternal life through the Law? The Law only had promises for THIS life...prosperity, health, victory in war, etc....material blessing instead of cursing as pertains to this life. Otherwise a new and better covenant wouldn't have been needed. And what if righteous Cornelius had told Peter when he came preaching the gospel, "Thanks Pete, but no thanks, I'm good. I give alms, I pray to God, and worship Him every Sabbath, I am a kind and helpful person." Would Cornelius have been saved/received eternal life?

I agree we cannot justify ourselves.........it is the LORD who justifies those who come to Him by faith......He grants righteousness as a gift....the righteousness which is by faith. According to God's word, but not according to Episkopos.

 

[Lizbeth]

You do know that God did not desire sacrifice but rather right living toward others? He spoke many times about this.
I desire mercy, not sacrifice, a peaceful harvest of right living, you do not delight in sacrifice or I would bring it, burnt offering and sin offering you did not desire, I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls, I did not speak to your fathers about sacrifice on the day I freed them from their bondage, to hearken is better than to sacrifice. There are so many verses that show this.
Go and learn what it means to say one is trampling the blood of Jesus underfoot because truly, you do it.

Wow, are you saying the cross is optional, and that God didn't desire to bring in the new covenant with the sacrifice of His Son? Jesus submitted to and obeyed the Father's WILL in going to the cross. It is through Jesus' sacrifice that He demonstrated His mercy.......He fulfilled His own Law on behalf of those who would receive His Son, at great cost to Himself. And now we are to bring forth spiritual fruit (not just "right living") to God's glory, not ours, in keeping with repentance......which we could not do without first having received Christ. His sacrifice was certainly not an occasion for joy, but it was the only way anyone could be saved.

 

[Lizbeth]

Protestantism is good for a very small minority...but a lot worse for most. Declaring oneself righteous based on beliefs would never occur to a Catholic, for example. So then for the most part Protestantism is a Pharisee making machine. People read themselves into the bible the way children read a heroic story and pretend they are the hero. What is OK for a 3 year old is not OK for adults. Pretend heroes crucified Christ.

So I se most modern evangelicals as pretenders.

The GOSPEL is not "protestantism". Protestantism is the name Catholics and the world gave to true Christ following, bible believing Christians who don't accept the Catholic religion. I have never thought of myself as "protestant", just Christian....and that by the sheer mercy of God.

 

[Episkopos]

No, I'm afraid you are muddling things up. And God does give us discernment, as well as His word, to know and determine things. God gave man instruction not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, correct? Why is that? What does a tree represent in scripture? And fruit? Are we to eat the fruit of the tree of man (self), or the fruit of the tree of Christ? One leads to death and the other to life.

So you are saying that the bible is the tree of life? Or is it not the tree that gives us the knowledge of good and evil?

Why could the Jews not receive eternal life through the Law? The Law only had promises for THIS life...prosperity, health, victory in war, etc....material blessing instead of cursing as pertains to this life. Otherwise a new and better covenant wouldn't have been needed. And what if righteous Cornelius had told Peter when he came preaching the gospel, "Thanks Pete, but no thanks, I'm good. I give alms, I pray to God, and worship Him every Sabbath, I am a kind and helpful person." Would Cornelius have been saved/received eternal life?

Cornelius was already on the path of salvation. He was already righteous, therefore he would accept whatever God had for him. Remember that Cornelius was not the one going looking for salvation. "I was found of those who sought me not"

I agree we cannot justify ourselves.........it is the LORD who justifies those who come to Him by faith......He grants righteousness as a gift....the righteousness which is by faith. According to God's word, but not according to Episkopos.

Again, you are claiming something for your beliefs. By the bible is the knowledge of righteousness...but the bible does not impart righteousness. Only those with selective reading declare themselves as being righteous.

If God takes you to a holy place then you realize you have been given the gift of righteousness in Christ. And that only persists until you fail the grace of God and fall out of the Spirit. Repentance is then required...

There is no permanent righteous status.

If the Publican began judging others he would have lost his right standing with God.

The same goes for forgiveness. Forgiveness can be revoked...as we see with the man who was forgiven 10,000 talents.

 

[Lizbeth]

So you are saying that the bible is the tree of life? Or is it not the tree that gives us the knowledge of good and evil?



Cornelius was already on the path of salvation. He was already righteous, therefore he would accept whatever God had for him. Remember that Cornelius was not the one going looking for salvation. "I was found of those who sought me not"

Again, you are claiming something for your beliefs. By the bible is the knowledge of righteousness...but the bible does not impart righteousness. Only those with selective reading declare themselves as being righteous.

Christ Himself is the Tree of Life.........it is HIS fruit (righteousness) that we are to produce in keeping with repentance and what He has done IN us, in making us a new creature.

 

[Episkopos]

Christ Himself is the Tree of Life.........it is HIS fruit (righteousness) that we are to produce in keeping with repentance and what He has done IN us, in making us a new creature.

This is the bait and switch that every dishonest pretender pulls when they have painted themselves into a corner.

Christ is not involved in the name and claim game. It's ALL human speculation.

 

[Chaplain James]

1 John 1:8 *If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.". NKJV

 

[MostlyConfused]

Wow, are you saying the cross is optional

Which of the verses I gave do you think presents that?