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Ronald Nolette

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Yes.

Christ himself did not come to destroy the law, but to magnify it, fulfill it, and to make it honorable (Isaiah 42:21; Matthew 5:17).



We do not make it void, as the scripture says:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Establish means:

To make stable or firm; to fix immovably or firmly; to set (a thing) in a place and make it stable there; to settle; to confirm.

So you don't eat shellfish, no fish without scales, wear a prayer robe, keep the feasts, round your beard, don't have sex during your wifes menstrual cycle , give teh various tithes required? these are part of the Mosaic laws as well? or are you like all others who claim they do but really pick and choose which ones yo obey.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Keep what Paul called “ weak and useless”......

Paul was not calling the law weak and beggarly (useless), he was calling the ceremonial aspects of it weak (observing times, days, months, years). Especially the circumcision of the flesh.

Galatians 4:9-10 KJVS
[9] But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
 

BloodBought 1953

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What accusation? I was stating fact. Are you actually saying there aren't people out there that feel they can sin all they like and still get to heaven? If so, you need to get out more, I know several people that hold the license to sin view.


Hey! This sounds like me !......kinda .To paraphrase Mark Twain.....”The Reports Of my Sinning have been greatly exaggerated!”
I Sin all that I “ like” every hour of every day . The strange thing about that Truth is that now that I am a “New Creation” with a “ New Heart” , I have discovered that “Sinning” gives me just about as much pleasure as a visit to the Proctologist’s Examination Room.......anybody out there “ Like” that? Yeah, .....I though not .....lol.....
The Big Secret in regard to Christianity is that God never takes away anybody’s Freedom. God values Freedom so much,He risked Sin in order to give it to us......
Last night was Saturday Night—— the big “ Party Night!” ...... I went out and got just as DRUNK as I “ WANTED” to get ! It’s Strange, but I didn't WANT to get drunk though......
Is it starting to Sink in ? The Christian Walk is not one where you grit your teeth and summon up all of the will-Power you can muster to “ do do this” and “ dont do that!” In order to live a “ good life”. Christians are free to do what they “ want”—- God changes our “ wants”.....Sometimes by the Indwelling Holy Spirit and His Transforming Power and other times by using His Fatherly Chastisement System to give you a “ wake up call” when you give in to the Sin that “ so easily besets us.”
May GOD Bless us all in the understanding of these things....
 

Michiah-Imla

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So you don't eat shellfish, no fish without scales, wear a prayer robe, keep the feasts, round your beard, don't have sex during your wifes menstrual cycle , give teh various tithes required? these are part of the Mosaic laws as well? or are you like all others who claim they do but really pick and choose which ones yo obey.

You are doting about questions.

Paul stated that all the law is fulfilled in us who walk in the Spirit, who love their neighbor (the righteousness of the law does not include foods or clothing, or whatever other like frivolous things you want to seek in the law to rid yourself of it).

Romans 13:8-10 KJVS
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So after saying this, he said this elsewhere:

Colossians 2:16-17 KJVS
[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days : [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Comparing scripture with scripture clearly indicates that the righteousness of the law excludes food, drinks, holy days, and the like.

Galatians 5:14 KJVS
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The only time Paul cautions us in eating and drinking is when we are around the weak brethren who might be offended with what you eat and drink (Romans 14).
 

BloodBought 1953

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What kind of response is this?

Why do people like you like to put the scriptures in this clouded place where no one can discern what the scriptures are saying?

The scriptures say:

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

WALK IN THE SPIRIT.

ONE STRIKES YOUR CHEEK, TURN THE OTHER TO THEM.

LET YOURSELF BE DEFRAUDED.

And so on. Nothing complicated.

IT IS SETTLED >>> LOVE YOU ENERGY.

IT IS SETTLED >>> YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

IT IS SETTLED >>> IF YOU LOVE JESUS YOU WILL KEEP HIS SAYINGS. (All his sayings, not the one’s you chose to accept plainly arbitrarily).

I my estimation the only ones who would have an issue are those who cannot stand to be humbled by man wrongfully for the Lord’s sake or accept any kind of threat to their salvation from the Bible. Just because someone has perverted the scriptures out of their hearts doesn’t mean I have to follow them. I FOLLOW THE LORD THROUGH HIS WORD!

The scriptures are clear to those who WANT to obey them and love them.

Those, like you, would rather have us be full of debate and discussion about what the scriptures say (especially with passages that would put the fear of God in you; now we cannot have that can we?).

We are called to be unified in biblical doctrine. The only way this happens is when EVERYONE SUBMITS themselves to the scriptures. But the minute one proclaims the word of God plainly, people like you emerge who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the scriptures and discourage us by showing contempt at our bold proclamation of what God says.

Too many Christians are full of empty theological words, puffed up with worthless knowledge. They sound so intelligent with their Bible tech talk (hermeneutics, exegesis, blah blah blah). In reality they just show how foolish they have become by being captivated by that cunning man lying in wait to deceive.

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.


If you choose to go the “ Obedience” Route for your Salvation why don’t we just cut out the BS and get to the crux of the matter.....Jesus said, “ You are to be PERECT , even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect” ...... how’s “ THAT” working for you?
All this Performance “ dung” you gotta worry about! I am the true “ Chief Of Sinners” , yet God labels me as “ PERFECT” simply because I Rest in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace....Any Non “ Stiff-Necked” Newbies out there wanna See beyond this HogWash and find out the TRUE Way to GET and STAY Saved, which is “ Foolishness to those that Perish?”
Go to 1Cor 15:1-4 and check out the Gospel That Saves......Believe it....Don’t ever ADD to it ....and REST in it.....Do that alone and you will “ Find Yourself” Doing all the stuff that these Legalists sweat over all of their “ fallen from Grace” Lives.....
 

07-07-07

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Has anyone else noticed that threads which discuss our salvation become so focused on sin?

Why is that?

Salvation is through faith in Christ.

Why aren't we talking more about that?

Much love!

Because God does not accept nor endorse sin. Sin put Jesus on that Tree. There was a time when God winked at this ignorance, but now commands all men to repent.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Willful sins are like "I know I should not sleep with my boyfriend but thank God I am forgiven.Isn't grace wonderful?"
Paying attention, @Blood Bought 1953 ?

The Bible calls this trampling on the Son of God, profaning the blood of the covenant that sanctified you, and insulting the Spirit of grace. And the Bible is clear about what happens to people who do that. But this is what the reach and influence of million dollar ministries like Andrew Farley's are teaching people today. If I had heard that damnable message of license back in the 80's when I was searching for the Lord I would not have been born again then. I would have just thought that I was born again, being all happy about not having to stop sinning, and thinking that was the joy of the Lord. What a damnable heresy. It isn't going to go well with these teachers (and their students) on the day of judgment.

Jude 1:4
4For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we deny Him, He will also deny us
 

07-07-07

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Blood Bought 1953 said: ↑

..Christians are “ DEAD” to the Law— Remember?

You do not know what that means. It does not mean you do not have to uphold the law (Romans 3:31).

Romans 6
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
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Ferris Bueller

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“Greasy Grace” you Accursed Reprobates declare with your Self - Righteous Scorn?
According to Jude 1:4, who is the accursed reprobate? We who say you must believe in God and be born again and repent of sin and live for the Lord, or you who says grace is our license to sin?

Jude 1:4
ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

It must Follow that your So-Called “Slimy Grace” was purchased by Jesus’ “SLIMY BLOOD “, right? You SPIT on His Precious Blood with your Insults.....May God have Mercy on your Souls....
Show us the verse that says believing in Christ for salvation and repenting of sins is spitting on the precious blood of Christ and I will show you the verse that says purposely continuing in sin after you have been sanctified is trampling on the Son of God, profaning Christ's blood, and insulting the Spirit of grace. Deal?
 

Michiah-Imla

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“ You are to be PERECT , even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect” ...... how’s “ THAT” working for you?

It is working out quite okay, thanks for asking (2 Corinthians 13:11).

God labels me as “ PERFECT

No he doesn’t.

Otherwise he wouldn’t tell you to be perfect (Matthew 5:48).

So, @Blood Bought 1953

You believe in a god that brutally punished and killed sinners in the Old Testament, but allows you to sin with impunity?

That’s not a just god.

The God of the Bible is a just God.

You got the wrong doctrine from the wrong god.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Jude 1:4
ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
@Blood Bought 1953 , explain for us how one "turn(s) the grace of our God into a license for immorality" so we can be careful not to do that.
 
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Gideons300

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I would like to ask all reading or contributing to this discussion to consider something.

This is a post about salvation and sin, and if a lost person came here and read each post here, and tried to make sense of it all, their heads would explode, lol.

We are like the builders of the Tower of Babel, each one speaking the truth as they understand it, unable to hear the truths spoken by those dissenting as if they were speaking another language altogether. Each side are found digging in their heels as to what is truth, each clinging to their pet scriptures and understanding and totally ignoring or explaining away the scriptures put forth by those of another persuasion.

This alone should be a red flag to us, especially when it comes to the importance of sin and salvation, two of the key building blocks of our Christian faith.

But there is a far deeper problem revealed here. You see, when a seeker comes on this site and reads what has been written on posts such as this one, they have heard that Christianity is about love and His disciples, as reflections of Christ living inside them, are to be found bearing fruits and to love one another, even those who see things differently. Yet, if I am honest, I do not think this to be the case, and the truth is that, more often than not, I simply do not feel tears flow and loving concern given when most posters defend their position as THE truth.

Jesus said that the two great commandments were to love God with all that is within us and to love one another as Christ loved us. As to the first one, one post on this thread tells us that loving God with our whole heart is impossible. But how many there are who have inwardly concluded the same thing and thus given up seeking to become living sacrifices, and to be made fully obedient to the Spirit within us?

As to the second, He goes as far as to tell us that His truth will be manifested to a lost world by our love for one another. Above all else, this will be our "identification badge" as to whether we are really His disciples, amen? In the book of Acts, men in the world were amazed by the saints in the early church, and would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" We do not hear that much today, do we? This fact should bother us to no end. The fact that it does not should bother us even more.

We are instructed to be patient and kind, lowly and forgiving one another, esteeming others more than ourselves, for this is how our savior is with us. And yet, in post after post, posters are more interested in proving their viewpoint is right, and often belittling, attacking or accusing those who dare to disagree with them. They excuse this as 'iron sharpening iron', but the truth is we often use our sharpened swords to slice and dice our very brothers and sisters in Christ, rather than pray that God opens all of our eyes as to how to be fruitful and Christ-like.

Combine these two facts, and we have a church that may profess the truth, but does not possess it.... or more accurately, is not possessed by it. God is about to change all that, but is waiting for us to admit our great lack so we can look to Him in faith to do what He promised to do for us, deliver us from the power of darkness found in our old natures.

If our response is to dig in our heels and rally around OUR understanding of scriptures, excusing our lack of love as simply our 'humanness, since no one is perfect' while there is scant little fruit to back up our assertions, are we not like the saints in Laodecia who said they had need of nothing?

But God is even now beginning to bring about something wonderful, a church seeking HIS will first and foremost. A church hungry not just for forgiveness but longing to abide in the vine, where we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and instead bear much fruit that draws others to our Jesus.

May God open our hearts to our lack, so that we can look away from us, and OUR opinions, and see how deep the grace of God actually goes. He will..... WILL.... change us into His image if we yield completely and cry out to Him to believe His promise to cause us to walk as His love-filled, obedient children.

A harvest awaits, the greatest in all of history. And what will be the key to this amazing event?

"... and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall be sanctified IN YOU before their very eyes."

Ezekiel 36


This end times awakening is OUR heritage, OUR birthright, OUR destiny. We may drag our heels a bit, lol, but make no mistake, we are going to witness.... and be a part of.... something gloriously amazing. A church that fully reflects Jesus in every single saint.

blessings,

Gideon
 
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Nancy

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I would like to ask all reading or contributing to this discussion to consider something.

This is a post about salvation and sin, and if a lost person came here and read each post here, and tried to make sense of it all, their heads would explode, lol.

We are like the builders of the Tower of Babel, each one speaking the truth as they understand it, unable to hear the truths spoken by those dissenting as if they were speaking another language altogether. Each side are found digging in their heels as to what is truth, each clinging to their pet scriptures and understanding and totally ignoring or explaining away the scriptures put forth by those of another persuasion.

This alone should be a red flag to us, especially when it comes to the importance of sin and salvation, two of the key building blocks of our Christian faith.

But there is a far deeper problem revealed here. You see, when a seeker comes on this site and reads what has been written on posts such as this one, they have heard that Christianity is about love and His disciples, as reflections of Christ living inside them, are to be found bearing fruits and to love one another, even those who see things differently. Yet, if I am honest, I do not think this to be the case, and the truth is that, more often than not, I simply do not feel tears flow and loving concern given when most posters defend their position as THE truth.

Jesus said that the two great commandments were to love God with all that is within us and to love one another as Christ loved us. As to the first one, one post on this thread tells us that loving God with our whole heart is impossible. But how many there are who have inwardly concluded the same thing and thus given up seeking to become living sacrifices, and to be made fully obedient to the Spirit within us?

As to the second, He goes as far as to tell us that His truth will be manifested to a lost world by our love for one another. Above all else, this will be our "identification badge" as to whether we are really His disciples, amen? In the book of Acts, men in the world were amazed by the saints in the early church, and would exclaim "Behold how they love one another!" We do not hear that much today, do we? This fact should bother us to no end. The fact that it does not should bother us even more.

We are instructed to be patient and kind, lowly and forgiving one another, esteeming others more than ourselves, for this is how our savior is with us. And yet, in post after post, posters are more interested in proving their viewpoint is right, and often belittling, attacking or accusing those who dare to disagree with them. They excuse this as 'iron sharpening iron', but the truth is we often use our sharpened swords to slice and dice our very brothers and sisters in Christ, rather than pray that God opens all of our eyes as to how to be fruitful and Christ-like.

Combine these two facts, and we have a church that may profess the truth, but does not possess it.... or more accurately, is not possessed by it. God is about to change all that, but is waiting for us to admit our great lack so we can look to Him in faith to do what He promised to do for us, deliver us from the power of darkness found in our old natures.

If our response is to dig in our heels and rally around OUR understanding of scriptures, excusing our lack of love as simply our 'humanness, since no one is perfect' while there is scant little fruit to back up our assertions, are we not like the saints in Laodecia who said they had need of nothing?

But God is even now beginning to bring about something wonderful, a church seeking HIS will first and foremost. A church hungry not just for forgiveness but longing to abide in the vine, where we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and instead bear much fruit that draws others to our Jesus.

May God open our hearts to our lack, so that we can look away from us, and OUR opinions, and see how deep the grace of God actually goes. He will..... WILL.... change us into His image if we yield completely and cry out to Him to believe His promise to cause us to walk as His love-filled, obedient children.

A harvest awaits, the greatest in all of history. And what will be the key to this amazing event?

"... and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall be sanctified IN YOU before their very eyes."

Ezekiel 36


This end times awakening is OUR heritage, OUR birthright, OUR destiny. We may drag our heels a bit, lol, but make no mistake, we are going to witness.... and be a part of.... something gloriously amazing. A church that fully reflects Jesus in every single saint.

blessings,

Gideon

Great post, sad and true but nonetheless, many good points.

"This fact should bother us to no end. The fact that it does not should bother us even more."
It certainly should.
 

Addy

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I simply do not feel tears flow and loving concern given when most posters defend their position as THE truth.

You and I have learned to work out our differences respectfully... You do have a gift with being able to communicate with respect... and I feel that I possess the same gift. It is something that is indeed lacking in this world... not only in forums.. but in real life.

I have read what you have written... "this post" is lovely... but to continue debating with you over legalism... is not fruitful... and so earlier this week... you and I publicly and with respect... decided to end the debating. I do not consider you a lesser Christian for what you believe... I do not consider you an enemy... but I do consider your beliefs dangerous for the new believer. That is not something I am able to change my mind on.

Like you... I see so much anger to the point of rage in these forums. Very unbecoming behaviour indeed...Yet people seem to enjoy the back and forth "defending" of their beliefs to BELIEVERS... I don't understand this type of communication. Much of what happens here has NOTHING to do with iron sharpening iron... but rather a FEEDING of SUPERIORITY.

You have been in forums for years... stating the very same things... over and over again... I don't understand why you would desire to waste your breath and your time... as nothing you say seems to be "registering" or changing anyone's mind as you would desire...this has been my observation on how these forums seem to operate and keep on going and going and going with no resolve. It's the same topics all the time.

Surely there comes a time where one needs to simply pick up their mat and walk away. Anyways... this was not meant to antagonise you... it really was simply a reflection of forums.
 

Ronald Nolette

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You are doting about questions.

Paul stated that all the law is fulfilled in us who walk in the Spirit, who love their neighbor (the righteousness of the law does not include foods or clothing, or whatever other like frivolous things you want to seek in the law to rid yourself of it).

And you are avoiding answering a simple question. It was you who stated you obeyed all of Gods commandments and I merely asked if you obeyed these as well. Please answer so I know what you say.
 
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